Bob

Yes, that is where it ended up. Pictures show the pool and hangar. Very lucky! Looks like between the fence posts and both wings, a huge amount of energy was dispersed.

Years ago a Mooney departed Clow airport lifted off and slid into an intersection, marked by the red "X", below. I remember the reports at the time that included an interview from the mechanic that was the first aviation knowledgeable person on the scene and he arrived just after the impact. The mechanic stated that he found the fuel selector in the off position or "between tanks". The Mooney, N5641Q, departed 18 on a 3300ft runway at 1C5. Lifted off and lost power. If I remember properly, the pilot said that he fueled and switched tanks before departing. The accident ended very well, the plane missed all the late rush hour cars, only hit a parkway tree with the wingtip and both pilot and passenger had only minor injuries. Hope this give one real scenario for this thread. Unfortunately I am unable to share the NTSB report. The very interesting thing is that the NTSB report is now missing. A Google search also offer almost no help. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=n5641q+ntsb This is not a suggestion for a conspiracy theory, I did read the report years ago. I understand that my above information is contradicted in this link, however what I added has come from my memory of the NTSB report and at the same time I wanted to share one of the few news reports still available on the net. http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/2008/09/18/two-injured-in-bolingbrook-plane-crash/z51wffn/?page=1

May be a good idea to loosen the clamp on #1 EGT probe and see how it is seated. It looks like the thimble may be 90 deg. off and the probe has backed out a little. Also looks like someone bent the probe to clear the induction pipe that you have removed for the picture. Keep that in mind when reinstalling. You may want to look at an install manual on JPI's site. It is very common for guys to install them wrong! Not sure about the turbo, but I feel that it may be getting real hot, but not sure?? What are your TIT numbers at? Here is a pic from when my engine was removed at 850hrs. My turbo looked pretty even and without a light color.

Thanks for sharing the video 201er! Just want to add one very, very small survival item that many don't think about. A FREE BACKUP ELT BATTERY! I constantly hear about how guys have found a very creative way to use their old ELT batteries so they don't end up in the garbage. My creative way is to always take my old battery and just keep it in the plane with other small spares and Philips screwdiver. I have heard about many crashes where the search team runs out of time to benefit from the ELT signal due to battery discharge. Almost double ELT life at no extra cost, how can I pass that up?

I bet he sent the selfi-drone ahead to share the full experience. Mike has so many cameras going, when the linemen asks if he needs fuel or anything else, he says "No thanks I am good on fuel, but please charge all my Gopro batteries, and don't forget the tip battery racks!

John, I am based at DPA, hope that is close enough. I may be called out of town to work for a month, but not sure yet. If the job is delayed, we can get together, test fit and fly my K. We also have a couple other Mooney owners based at DPA. PM your number when able.

A few weeks ago, I was on the other side of this discussion. We departed 400 overcast, 2.5hr flight and landed 600 overcast. I was the Pic in my plane. The passenger/copilot was a 150hr PP with enough instrument training to finish his Instrument checkride in a few days. Since I had the Instrument rating and he was instrument training, I felt that I should share things that were not 100%, things I should have done better. There were about 3 items that I told him I did not like and felt I needed to improve upon. While I did avoided being overcritical of myself. His response was "Bob, we are not professional pilots"! It caught me by surprise and I did not know what to say. Giving a pilot a "pass" for performance weaknesses or slop, I don't agree with. I am not in IMC to not be a professional pilot!

Sounds close to what happened to me. He asked at point of engine install, they did not do it, then rather than make good on their error, charge extra after the fact. Just speculating???

German arrogance?? Like using cotton thread for cabriolet automobile tops? Salt and water break down cotton! So the material held up fine, just fell apart at the seams. Or water soluble glue on door entry kick trim panels? Wash your car more than once a week and the rubber trim piece will fall off in the parking lot. I think they may have changed at this point, but not sure, my remarks are taken only from a 20 year long timeframe in the 80's & 90's. Just to add information relevant to this thread. For those that are curious the paint product used on Mt-Propellers is PPG concept urethane acrylic paint.

Peter Marshall from MT Prop in FL has been very professional and helpful from the beginning with my initial pre-purchase inquiry, time of purchase and now with this paint adhesion issue. As they say, "it's not the problem, but rather how you handle the problem." He has encouraged me to schedule the repair during a timeframe when downtime is not an issue, like next winter, and has suggested and given approval for a repair after the 1 year warranty period. Quote from Peter Marshall: "The nickel leading edges are used on all of our turbine propellers and are starting to make their way onto the reciprocating propellers as well. At the present time the nickel leading edges are not available for your blade type." It will be interesting to see how much more paint come off over the next 6 months. If I am lucky, the nickel leading edge, may become available with a delayed repair?

Erik- When I read your first post about the nickel, I appreciated the information, since I was not aware of the option. It may make sense to swap out overhauled blades rather than pull all the stainless off of mine. I'm waiting on more information from MT on this. Any pics to share of your nickel blades? Do you remember the up charge for the nickel? At the time of purchase, for what benefit did you justify the upcharge for the option? Looks like I do everything for the warranty claim and then figure out my final direction while at Oshkosh.

I did not see any paint chipped off of the composite material. I don't have the prop in front of me, so I'm going by pics like everyone else. In the image below, it looks like the stainless runs to approximately the green line (just a guess). They then fill to float the composite into the stainless to remove seams and sand up to the blue line. Last they run the paint up to the red line that includes 1/4 inch of un-sanded (maybe scuffed) stainless. That gives 3 levels of adhesion with the composite material having the strongest adhesion and the leading edge of the paint having the least amount of adhesion. If you notice all the blades have paint chipping in different areas. On this one the tip had better adhesion than other areas that were traveling at a slower speed. Besides the poor system of laying paint over stainless, I think in my case here, there is an additional problem like poor surface preparation, dust, oil, moisture, etc.

Thanks! This link, even though it is a line drawing, gives a bit of perspective. http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/blades.htm The other interesting thing on the page is that MT states that the blade is "all weather operable". Then they add additional effort to highlight the statement.

I was thinking paint coming off due to poor adhesion and chose the word delamination so it would fit in the title block. But technically, yes you're correct, a paint layer does not contribute to the strength of the part and not part of the lamination. Yes, 2000 RPM does help a lot. At 2700 RPM the tip is moving at 594 MPH. Only 440 MPH at 2000 RPM. Unfortunately while departing full power is the only option.

This is what gave me the idea of leading edge tape. Was thinking that if the tape extender past the stainless insert, it could work. Just trying to explore all options to find the best for long term. I have a FISDO on my home field, so would be EZ to talk to them. Looks like it some do use it for Experimental. I wonder is it comes in a band aid print? http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=2616988676001 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/tape_leadingedge.html

Unfortunately It sounds like MT floats material up to make a seam free line between the composite and stainless pieces. So the option to polish the paint off the entire stainless insert is not an option. That would leave a high paint edge at the stainless insert. When I looked close at the Catto, It looked like they actually floated the blade resin down just before it came to the stainless edge. Not only did they remove any sharp paint edge at the stainless, but also formed a little valley floating up into the blade. This transition looks like it may reduce the paint erosion possibility. Hard to explain but tried my best. Any thought on leading edge tape or helicopter tape?

I did file a claim this morning and got a quick response to process a warranty repair to repaint the blades. KS-I appreciate the information on your experience! Any pics of your prop when it was done? When I ordered my prop, I was told to pick the spinner color, blade color and tip color from black, red, white, blue, yellow and a few more. I just picked their white blades with blue tips. Don't think anything with the paint was custom, but different colors may have different adhesions. When I talked to MT this morning, I asked about not painting the stainless and was told that it would just move the edge farther back and erode in a different spot. If I am restricted to VMC just to not damage a 13K prop, that would be pretty messed up! A guy in my hangar is just finishing an RV and I noticed that it has a Catto Prop on it. Looks like the stainless is over the paint, or at least not painted on, like the pic below. Is this how yours looks?

I can not help you with a mechanic source, but have a alternator available, if yours is a 12 volt. The alternator was overhauled and yellow tagged 9 months ago, on my plane for 11 hrs, then removed before engine core was sent in. My plan is to keep it as a spare, but if you run into an availability problem, I'll sell it to you at a fair price and can ship out today. Let me know if I can help.

Yesterday I had an IFR flight thru mist and very light rain for a couple minutes. After the flight I observed the blade paint was delaminating. It looks like the poor adhesion is only over the stainless insert. The prop is less than a year old and 45 hours since new. Any similar experiences from Mt Prop owners? My flightaware gives you an idea of how light the precipitation was. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N231PZ

Sold 8, so only 4 plugs left. 4 Plugs, $70 shipped

Just a reminder, if you add a Aspen, GPSS is included within the unit. I want GPSS, but for me, have decided to do without until funds allow the Aspen.

Very nice addition to this discussion. Retro cool!

I saw and accepted that we do had 2 different opinions many posts ago, but was hoping to see your view, in an attempt to improve learning. Just curious why you chose not to use the MFD checklists. And also what MFD screen you have on while accelerating down the runway? Some of your posts here have challenged while some have added greatly to this thread IMO. It is good that pilots with 200hrs or any Cirrus time at all, have some experience that has contributed to this thread.

M20F-Thanks for adding details to the checklist items. Not sure how the "The Cirrus checklists are the same or shorter than a Mooney". I just looked quickly in my 231 POH so I could see a fair comparison and found that checklists are not included in my 231 POH. I'll look at the checklist placards next time I fly my plane. Is your comparison using aftermarket checklists for the Mooney? My point in my post was that I see the biggest problem as the combination of the checklist, MFD and the Cirrus training combined. In the above list for normal takeoff, it's design has no consideration for pilot workload, since some items are not needed while other items take additional steps to complete, like "check engine parameters". Does a pilot really need to be told to release the brakes? Power full forward, now check engine parameters. Well that requires you to go to the MFD and turn to the engine screen, check parameters, then go back the Normal takeoff checklist screen, then check off #3, before getting to 70-73,etc. A factory checklist & training that promotes flipping MFD screens while accelerating down the runway is beyond my comprehension! If you take the Cirrus checklist add Cirrus training that demands the complete use of the checklists, add a MFD, now find the list in the PDF, then add the Cirrus training that demands checking off each & every item. Now add touch & go's (they do instruct touch & go's in the Cirrus) and you end up with major unnecessary workload that takes away from flying the plane. In the real world, you may "blast thru", shorten or do some by memory (example: GUMPS), but I don't think with a CFI instructing, like during this accident flight, you will be allowed to shorten the high workload process.

Yep! The Cirrus checklists are beyond stupid! I am not sure if they were departing, returning or doing pattern work. But if they were doing pattern work, can you imagine the workload, due to the checklists, that was taking away from flying the plane? Checklists 80% / Flying the plane 20%?