KSMooniac

I will plan to talk to DeltaHawk at OSH this year...I have dreams of working myself into a composite fab business and wading into that pool with some fun Mooney projects is a great first step for me. Doing a cowl is of course likely the biggest STC hurdle after they get approved. Engine mounts are gonna be pretty easy...

Jim, don't forget the extra 30+ lbs that were included too.

It wouldn't be 132 lb hit as the additional weight would have to be balanced aft of the CG as well...perhaps with only another 50 lbs in the tail? Even with the lower fuel consumption, it would really cripple a Mooney.

I too use 1250-1300 dF for my target on my #1 cylinder. To establish your target, simply note the EGT for a full-rich T/O at sea level, or as reasonably close as you can get. 1360 sounds too high to me...if you have fuel flow installed you can cross-check and should be right around 18 GPH at takeoff with everything forward on a standard, sea-level day. It will be a little bit less at higher elevations and/or warmer temps. If your fuel flow is significantly less than that, then you have another issue that could explain the higher EGTs. EDIT: 18 GPH for the 200 HP Mooneys.

It looks like a pretty solid plane to me. Cosmetics need updating, and it could use some panel upgrades, but if you're going to keep it some decades then you could put money into it as soon as you're able and really enjoy it without fretting about the lack of return on upgrade money. I wouldn't fear the gear-up history, and a Mooney-savvy pre-buy should uncover anything substantial. The missing logs only span the first 8 years...not great, but not the end of the world either. All of the 201 mods, gear doors, etc. aren't cheap and they would make the plane worthy of more investment to modernize it IMO. EDIT: I didn't find the ad on Barnstormers, but found a spec sheet with pics. Reading the older ad from 2004, I see it actually has the M20 Turbo TN system...that alone is a $35k kit plus installation! I would seriously consider this one as a long-term keeper and not be afraid to continue the upgrades.

I do believe Advanced Aircraft has licensed the process developed by Willmar, and they should be a good choice. I have no direct experience with them, though. Willmar did my tanks and they've been great ever since then (2008). Norman Howell (posts here as "testwest") is having or had his J done at AA, so you might contact him directly for a PIREP.

And before anyone takes his Democratic humor too seriously...he does indeed have some friends and customers of that persuasion. There is plenty of ribbing back and forth.

Ok, thanks for the clarification! If you want the short answer why there aren't many new 200 hp models on the market these days is because the incremental cost going from the IO-360 to the IO-550 is on the order of only $10k for the OEM. $10k or perhaps $15k with a better prop when you're already at $400-$500k is just a drop in the bucket, and frankly the folks paying for new planes figure they might as well get the more powerful option. That is why the SR22 : SR20 ratio is huge, and why Lancair never offered an IO-360 version (we had one planned). That is why the M20J disappeared, and why the replacement M20S didn't last long either. I don't like the reality either because the J occupies a real sweet spot in the market place...but the modern market has spoken loud and clear and unfortunately most buyers don't think like us!

ROP vs. LOP is certainly personal preference, but I still maintain that Jerry is speaking from a position of ignorance on the topic. Flying LOP is undeniably more efficient, cooler, and easier on the engine than flying ROP. That is not just because us non-turbo guys have to sacrifice a little bit of power and speed to go LOP...I would fly 85% power all day long LOP if I could, and long for a turbo-normalizer so I could do so. That power setting is much better on the engine than 75% at 50 ROP, too.

Quote: scottfromiowa That would be in sales Mr. B.S. flag...or enlighten me? I love Mooney's would personally much rather have an Ovation or late model Mooney to ANY other certified aircraft. I don't think the majority of current buyers feel that way or there wouldn't be 50 employees sweeping floors and sending out parts...

The reality is the well-faired gear on the Cirrus and Cessnalumbia aren't a huge speed penalty...maybe 10 kts at the most. Retracting the gear adds a lot of weight, which reduces the speed advantage as well, not to mention cutting into useful load. But, I still love tucking the gear in a Mooney!!!

I agree about checking the baffling, but my experiences are pretty close to yours. I fly higher in the summer to get to cooler/smoother air, and lean further LOP to keep below 380 dF. There just isn't much else you can do besides cowl flaps, but that will slow you down further than going more LOP. Jerry is way behind the times regarding LOP benefits. From his writings, it is my guesstimate that he just parrots the Lycoming or POH guidance with no further thought. I'm sure the rest of his Mooney knowledge is quite extensive and valuable (I'm planning to take his last clinic in Wichita) but he just does not fully understand the intricacies of engine management with all that has been re-discovered and taught over the last 10 years.

I agree with jmills...I think there is enough of a market for pre-longbody refurbs *IF* Mooney gets the pricing right. When they announced their prices forinterior refurbs and paint jobs I couldn't believe how un-competitive they were, especially considering that they had a near-idled workforce in a very low-wage part of the country, in a very old facility that should have been fully amortized or paid-for long ago. I would have loved to get my plane painted there, but not for a 50-60% premium in price. If they could get some bulk deals on a pile of GNS-430/530s, some new gyros, perhaps even Aspen or G500 units and build up some modern instrument panels with a new panel off-line, then install as a unit as part of the refurb I think there would be a decent demand for such a plane on the used market. Interior, glass, paint, firewall-forward etc. as needed as well...I would think they could make some money and more importantly keep more of their skilled labor occupied on Mooneys and not doing other odd-jobs in Kerrville, or worse yet, moving away.

There is a Mooney BBQ on Sunday evening before the show http://www.mooneycaravan.com/MooneyCaravan/BBQ.aspx That is probably the best opportunity to meet-n-greet at one time, otherwise hanging out in the MAPA tent might give the opportunity to enjoy some shade and catch others coming or going. I wet-sanded my landing light lens through a series of grades up to 2000 grit, then followed up with a couple different grades of plastic polish to rehab my lens.

Liberal use of tri-flow all over the cable, perhaps with a helper exercising the cable while lubing. You should also check for freedom of movement and make sure you don't have a mechanical issue with it too.

No debris is normal, I'm afraid. Lew's idea about draining repeatedly sounds like a good first step to me. I can't remember if your plane had sat a long time or not before you got it, or if the prebuy noted anything tank-related. Can you refresh my memory?

My bad! I forgot that the venerable C model made it all the way to '78! O-360 jugs as a core only are probably only worth a couple hundred each, but who knows. Barnstormers or even eBay are good places to try to move them...

Alan, you can use a clean jar...just make sure to sample mid-stream and not catch the first oil coming out of the quick-drain. I read of one account where someone used a baby food jar for their sample and mentioned that in the notes. Blackstone noted a slight concentration of applesauce.

O-360 jugs are NOT the same as IO-360 jugs, and cost about half as much, so you need to double-check. Our IO-360 A3B6D engines have sole-source Lycoming jugs with no aftermarket competition, and thus they cost twice as much as any other cylinder on the market.

Uh, where in the world did you find 4 reman'd IO-360 jugs for $2k? An overhaul is on the order of $800-1000 each, and new ones are ~$1900 each. Did your A&P tell you exactly what would be done for $550 each? If you buy someone else's used jugs you likely won't know the history and especially the time in service. If your existing jugs are first-run, I would opt to have those overhauled by a quality shop. If they have 3000+ hours on them, then perhaps not... I wouldn't buy a full set of used jugs, so can't begin to put a value on them. Depends on time of course, and how they check out, but I can't imagine them being worth much more than say $400-500 each.

Service work sustaining Mooney By Alton K. Marsh Mooney Aircraft is riding out the economic downturn through customer service and warranty support work, a spokeswoman said. Once an employer of 400 workers, the Kerrville, Texas, company now has 55. Customer support remains fully staffed at the factory. Mooney did not display last year at EAA AirVenture in Oshkosh, Wis., and will not display again this year, but continues to attend other shows such as Sun ’n Fun in Lakeland, Fla., and AOPA Aviation Summit in Long Beach, Calif., Nov. 11 through 13. Mooney will send factory representatives to Oshkosh, as it did last year. The Mooney inventory sold out last December. There are no new aircraft at the factory or at dealers. Some 7,000 Mooney aircraft remain in service. Although there are eight partially completed aircraft in the factory, Mooney will not complete those unless a production line can be sustained. A ready workforce remains in the Kerrville area, although some now drive to aerospace jobs in San Antonio. Others have found work in Kerrville. Talks are in progress with new investors so that the production line can be restarted. However, the investors feel the economy remains volatile, and while many indicators have improved, there remains little confidence among customers in the current recovery, the spokeswoman said. Mooney has received inquiries from owners who want to upgrade, indicating support for a production line once the economy improves.

Quote: KLRDMD The RAM air is disabled with the Ray-Jay turbo installation on the E/F

My plan will be to get a local shop cut and sew carpet to my specs, and I'll add some floor snaps to secure it as well. It is just one of those things on my perpetual wish list. (and no disrespect taken!)

Mitch, I have no idea which vendor made the carpet in my plane. I had some previous experience with some Airtex seat covers and carpets back in the 90s with some 152s and 172s, and I was not impressed with the carpet back then. I've certainly read quite a few good PIREPs on their stuff in the last few years, so perhaps they are much better, or they have different grades of carpet. In my case, this stuff is thin, moves around, stains very easily, and the welting is coming loose after just a few years in service. Some day I'll replace it with something of much higher quality...

Here are some pics of my (dirty) carpet. Hope that helps!