Red Leader

Thanks guys! I am inclined to stick with my 231 which, although certainly not newer, is shiner and nicer than the Ovation I want. The Pre-buy received was from another interested party in that plane yielded several items of concern, however, none were deal breakers. At this time, I believe my best course of action, based primarily on your generous opinions, is to keep what I have. Although this decision is not set in stone, after reading all of this, I believe it to be the correct one. Thanks again to you all!

Excellent advice, thank you all. Yes, in reviewing my track logs, the time in the air was just over an hour - I was including my total time logged that day, which includes taxi and run-up, in my estimate of more than one hour. My instructor and I went through a half-hour ground brief of both approaches before departing and all turns and altitude changes were at his instruction. He had me do several maneuvers that don't show clearly in the track logs and was satisfied that I had good control of the aircraft under the hood. I have had much hood time (and some actual IFR) with previous instructors so, although this was my first official IFR lesson, I was not near as green as most first-timers. I felt I was ready to try an approach (or four) and believe I still am. One of the comments was why I found it tricky to manage if I already had 80 hours in my plane? Although a fair question, I was struggling to keep the plane straight and level while both monitoring the engine temps (which I do religiously) and understanding the Garmin approach setup. The GPS setup took more attention than I was expecting and as a result, it impacted my ability to keep perfectly straight and level. As a perfectionist, I a beat myself up over even a little bit off course or altitude. But we got a little off topic. I am still wondering if I should purchase a non-turbocharged airplane (i.e. the Mooney Ovation) to simplify my lessons. One of you guys had mentioned that I need a better engine monitor, and you are very correct. I am having an EDM-930 installed (hopefully) in January which should simplify my monitoring methods. The plane I am considering has newer Garmin gear than mine, a KFC-150, as opposed to my KFC-200, a better engine monitor than what I have and an Aspen PFD. I just figured it might be simpler to learn on a newer and better equipped platform. Or should I just upgrade and keep mine? The pre-buy of the Ovation turned up lots of small items that will need attention, making the first annual likely to exceed $10-15k, but it is a newer plane with lower hours.

Okay, lets break this down a little - 1) the flight was not one hour, it took longer than this to fly the routes. 2) after the first two, I felt ready to do it again (and was better at it for the practice) 3) he IS my new instructor 4) 232TT flies perfectly hands-off 5) I have almost 400 hours, 80 in this Mooney 6) my speed WAS down, no need to fly between two close airports at Mooney velocities 7) I only used my autopilot for approach #3 and that greatly assisted my setup the 530 8) my instructor was impressed with my ability to fly under these conditions (as was I) in spite of the fact that I was totally task saturated. I hope those answers your questions. I have to go fly now, good night!

I had some instrument training in my private and I was familiar with both airports we were bouncing back and forth between so it was an efficient use of my flight time. We briefed plenty on the ground before taking to the sky but even with the preparation, it was still overwhelming.

Maybe I am making too much from my first IFR lesson. I was 1-hour under the hood and performed 4 approaches. Having to set up the 530 and monitor everything else (hand-flying the aircraft) was more than a bit overwhelming. The approaches were no problem and I had no issues with any one particular phase of flight. I have my K dialed-in extremely well and don't want to sell it, but to upgrade... A simpler platform with newer avionics and a lower-time engine seemed like an option to consider. Hence my dilemma.

My mission? I love to fly! What I don't love is constantly checking temps. Until I upgrade my current engine monitor, which I am planning on doing soon, I have to spin a dial to look at individual CHT's. Currently I have only one EGT, which uses the same gauge and changes by switch position. My autopilot is an older KFC200 which does not have altitude preselect nor does it have GPSS coupled with my 530w. The aircraft I am considering has a GTN750 and KFC150. I don't know if the 150 is better than the 200. I doubt mountain flying is in my future but cannot rule it out. I wish to get my IFR to expand my flying options but know the Ovation will not climb nearly as high as the 231.

Aside from fuel efficiency, I am mostly interested in knowing what I would be giving up by getting a M20R and selling my M20K. What performance would I gain, how much more fuel would I use, Is it indeed easier to fly? Renting a 172 in my area costs $250/hr for JUST the plane so I would prefer to learn in what I have. Also, it is said that it is best to learn instruments in the plane you will ultimately fly.

Although I have an automatic wastgate, engine management on a 231 requires close monitoring.

Guys, I have a minor dilemma and need some advice. I currently own a 1981 M20K which is in very good condition but recent IFR flight training shows it is more than a handful when learning to fly by instruments only. Those who own one already know that it is a plane that requires constant attention so adding this extra dimension of flight shows me that, perhaps, I should not be learning on this. My dilemma is that I have a line on a newer (1995) Ovation. Not being a turbo, I am sure my level of task saturation will be reduced (good for practicing IFR). Flying an Ovation will likely burn more fuel than my 231 but it does go faster (right?). It has slightly better instrumentation and although my paint and interior are both new (and the engine times are similar), a recent pre-buy on the M20R shows many small items that require repair to be ensure airworthiness. It will be an expensive first annual. I have not flown an Ovation so my question is this - Should I keep my K or consider the Ovation as a better option for training? In spite of the cost of repairs, the price is reasonable and I can afford it. What would I be losing by moving to the newer plane? What would I be giving up? I hope the experienced brain trust can enlighten my choice.

Very cool - Real talent! It took him 4.5 hours to perform that artwork, what a gift to all of us for Christmas!

Can't speak to other airports but at mine, insurance isn't an option. If you do not have any, you cannot keep your bird here.

Given aviation prices lately, you would be forgiven for making such an understandable mistake. I have a glareshield by Hector at AeroComfort and it looks fantastic! I do not know what it looked like previously but there is a repair or two he obviously made before the reconditioning.

Lancair - IVP - Speed better than Mooney and better useful load. Only one door but at least it is on the correct side. All the performance of a Mooney and the handling I miss from my AA5.

I thought the higher temperatures were better for lead scavenging? I have heard that if the temps are lower, you are more likely to have lead deposits in the exhaust (though that may be just for EGT, so correct me if I am wrong). As far as TIT goes, I fly a K and the redline on my bird is 1650. I understand temps up to 1750 are allowable for no more than 30 seconds but that is for an engine designed from the factory to work with the turbo. I try not to run it much above 1600 and ideally closer to 1550. Yes, your red knob will dramatically affect TIT. A recent MS'er who just purchased his K, made the comment that he feels he is just chasing temperatures - he is correct, that is what we do but getting to a perfect balance can be done (but tricky). Since yours is turbo-normalized, I cannot say with any degree of certainty if those numbers will apply to you. Is your POH updated to cover the operational specifics of the turbo-normalization?

Yeah, you can't use full power all the way up in a "K". Being a turbo, our temperatures are especially sensitive. It's the cylinder temperatures that are the most watched, but I tend to run fairly rich, leaning only after passing 8k. I recently have had my baffling replaced and with the new material, I rarely see over 385 in the climb. You say it is an exercise in chasing temperatures, you are correct. Since the baffling replacement, I have to open the cowl flaps in cruise much less often - CHT's over 415 are a no-no in my book and they tend to creep up there in the flight levels (the air is thinner and cools poorly the higher you go). T.O. at 37", cruise climb about 32" and cruising at 29" @ 2400rpm. Got to watch the TIT as you don't want to exceed 1650. I have heard other 231 drivers running right at 1650, and from what I understand, that is acceptable - just don't go over for more than 30 seconds and never to 1750 as you will melt your turbo. Watch those CHT's, and yes, you may have to crack the cowl flaps from time to time to keeps those temps in check.

I believe the high-boost can take the place of the engine driven fuel pump should it fail in flight. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I've got a K and have found the best procedure is to put the mixture full rich, prime for about 5-7 seconds then turn on the high-boost pump for the same amount of time. It seems to be the best method (for me) as my engine starts in the first revolution or two - much longer if I don't use the boost pump. Also, like you, if using the primer only, I also have to bump the switch a few times to keep it from stalling. My boost pump procedure seems to have resolved almost all my starting issues. Still hard to start when hot.

My Mooney was painted 2 years ago by Executive HeliJet for $18k. They did a fantastic job with high-quality paints but the log books reflect a significant down-time. They are located in Myrtle Beach (KMYR, I believe) and, if you are serious about having a really good paint job, you should give them a call.

Did you get your glareshield replaced? I just replaced my good glareshield with a leather-covered one so the extra one is available for sale. Mine is in good condition with the slot cover and underside lights. PM me if you're interested.

If you can pull 40" of manifold pressure, your induction system is not adjusted correctly. With the TurboPlus, you should be limited to 36" - mine is.

Thanks guys, both responses are helpful. From what I am told, they did adjust the regulator but the results show no difference which is why am suspecting a leak or failing pump. I have a standby vacuum system and don't fly IFR so this isn't something I need immediately but does anyone have a replacement vacuum pump that'll fit my bird?

After a recent annual, I noticed my vacuum system not pulling as much as it once did. Now I am seeing the vacuum gauge reading just at the bottom of the green arc during normal cruise. I had my shop look at it and they said they made an adjustment and is now pulling in the middle of the arc during a runup. After that, my last flight showed it is still at the bottom of the green arc at cruise. Should I replace the pump? Should I find another shop? Anyone know what pump I should be using on my Continental TSIO-360GB? I have a line on a Tempest 3215CC, will that fit?

Sorry to hear about your family emergency, hope things work out. How much do you charge for the new button caps? I would love to replace them all in my M20K.

Where does one get replacement switch caps?

It is unclear (to me) if you are selling complete G1000 units or just the WAAS upgrade. If selling the complete units, what modifications will be needed to make them compatible with a Mooney 231? Do all the sensors, cables and connectors come as well? Can these be programmed to function with a turbo aircraft? Again, answers only if selling the complete units and not just the WAAS upgrade.