Steve Yucht

Like Matthias above I only hand fly past the FAF. Without a doubt my approaches are not as smooth as the autopilot but I personally feel very comfortable doing this. If there was a problem with your AP and you suddenly had to hand fly after the FAF things could get crazy or dangerous. I would rather have my mindset totally committed to hand flying. This keeps my proficiency up for sure. My approach: drop gear 1 mi outside the FAF or 1.5 mi if bombing in per ATC request to keep speed up. AP off and first notch of flaps at final. Ride down the glideslope starting out at 100 kts and slowly using small pitch and power changes to get to 85 kts 500 fpm descent calling out altitude and DA/MDA every 100 ft (I have practiced slower but in real weather particularly gusting wind I like the safety of airspeed and find I have plenty of time to slow down even breaking out at minimums). I typically don't bother adding final flaps unless I know the runway is relatively short. Coming out of the soup at minimums who cares if you float 500 feet as long as you don't go off the end. Big proponent of hand flying to keep proficient but if you don't do it regularly I suspect using the AP to mins would be safer.

My 2c as an Ovation owner who doesnt know anything about a 231: IFR training will overwhelm you in the beginning. That's a given. No one multitasks well. At best you can serially task quickly. Once you get the knobology of your technology down that will help tremendously. Don't confuse the plane with the avionics. You said your mission is "you love to fly". That's your passion, not your mission. The Ovation is great because I can go faster but if you don't want to burn 16gph ROP your not going to enjoy or realize that speed. If all you are doing is flying $200 lunches, spend the money on upgrading your K with better avionics. If you use your Mooney as a time travel machine get the Ovation. OK, for the controversial opinion stuff. Forget about GPSS during IFR training. I personally don't use it and would much rather not. Forget about coupled approaches, fly the airplane by hand from the final every time. As you learn, the best way to overload your mind is for your CFI to blow up your autopilot on final. Don't get used to the autopilot flying down low. This is your primacy phase of training. The hand flying in IMC (or under the hood) you do now is critical to your development as a safe pilot.

Alan, you definitely found the magic there! What was your GS at the time?

I’ve been waiting 3 years to get a no wind day here in FL to report about the effects of my VG’s on cruise speed. Everyone says that you loose top end speed in cruise except for the folks who make them. They believe that it’s a negligible loss. I bought my plane with them on so have nothing to compare to. I definitely have a significantly reduced stall speed of at most 55 kts and it’s hard to get her to stall. Back to today, I was at 7000 ft running 100 degrees ROP 23.3 inches of MP, 2400 RPM and had a TAS of 174 kts. Book speed is 175 kts. See pic’s below. I hope this helps anyone thinking about VG’s.

Don't beat yourself up. I have 400 hours in my Ovation and feel the many bounces I have had only better prepared me for the occasional hop I have now. You obviously know how to land the plane and were just trying to share your experience. Thank you, and never be ashamed of a successful go around.

I have tried many techniques and settled on the following: Mixture rich Throttle in about 7 turns (for me its my index fingertip on the tapered side of the nut) Low boost pump on 6 seconds and then off Crank and slowly turn throttle in if she doesn't catch within 4-5 seconds This works well even just stopping for fuel in the FL summer for 15-20 min.

Crosswinds really play a roll in the squirlyness of takeoff. If I am taking off in a significant crosswind I trim down and rotate about 5 knots faster than normal. If I am light (only me flying) I will trim at the top of the box (up). If I am heavy I will trim more at the bottom of the box (down) and rotate a couple of knots fast. I never would push the yolk to keep her on the ground. I believe in our planes (as long as there's no confirmed mechanical issue) the Mooney will get light in the nose but not take off until you distinctly rotate or just get fast enough with a bit of back pressure and patience. It's about becoming comfortable with footwork for your plane. Just my 2c after 400hrs in my O2. Definitely not a CFI!

Followup: mechanic said the continental battery failed the “caps” test and wouldn’t take a charge. All is good with a new battery. After plugging in my battery minder with the new battery the lights seemed wrong. I then had the epiphany: my extension cord to the Battery Minder had come unplugged allowing the battery to die. This was on the heals of 4 months in the paint shop which really drained the battery.

Continental batteries replaced March 2020 and have been on a Bateryminder since.

Yesterday in my 2000 Ovation 2, I went to startup and while cranking the starter and all electrical equipment shut off. I turned off the master and when I turned it back on I had power for a few seconds. All gauges lit up and needles pegged at the stops followed by everything shutting off (master was still on). No breakers tripped. When switched to battery 2 everything worked properly and was able to startup normally. I checked the batteries and both are above 24V. No loose wires that I can find. Any solutions to consider before bringing her in to minimize my time grounded. IMG_0144.MOV

Let me share my 2c as a capitalist business owner and used 2000 Ovation 2 owner. Mooney can be profitable but not by going after Cirrus. They will never be able to produce a market changing trainer, so just give up on that. The future of “cheap” in aviation is experimental. If you look at any new certified aircraft today expect to pay at least 500K. Realistically the price of admission for a new certified high performance GA piston is now $750,000 to 1.2mil. Don’t be discouraged or mad about this, because in 20 years those aircraft will sell for 1/3 of that price. Mooney shouldn’t focus on bargain hunters. There’s enough wealthy pilots to sell 50-100 planes a year. For the rest of us this keeps the parts pipeline flowing and if you are so lucky as to be able to buy a new plane in the future, then you can stay in a Mooney. The smart thing from this point would be to pick one model such as the Ovation or Acclaim and work on increasing the useful load. Preferably make it with a Jet-A diesel. Forget the chute. There’s plenty of us who wouldn’t be discouraged by not having one. Just make sure it has the nicest seats and latest avionics. Don’t overthink it and aim for a small niche or the future of the Mooney will already have been written.

Thankfully I'm one of the 2000 O2 DX lucky ones that doesn't have to worry about this. Would it be possible to reclassify the plane as experimental and just put in whatever you want? If there's no options for upgrade this may be a viable solution if it is permissible.

FWIW I start calling ATC to request lower when I calculate (really foreflight calculates) a 500ft/min descent. If they say anything but a lower altitude they will always tell me lower in "x" minutes. I then start my mental calculus. If it looks like a slam dunk just start to slow down. If I dont have my wife in the plane with me I'll do 1500 ft/min but with her I keep things reasonable. In the soup I stick with 500 ft/min no matter what. Really no big deal as long as you can be reasonably close to crossing restrictions and not high by the FAF. Worst case they vector you around. Remember if you say unable to ATC when they left you high it's a reflection on them and they will likely fix your problem so their supervisor doesn't keep hearing you say unable.

So to add a little avgas to this fire... I run ROP pretty much all the time to keep my hottest CHT at 380 deg. In my O2 this comes out to about 23 squared at 8-9000 ft (my preferred altitudes), 170 kts and 14.8 gph with no wind factor. I never fly more than 2:30 legs. Why bother, you are just increasing your risk for a blood clot and one of those makes a top overhaul look cheap! That's about the limit for my bladder anyway. I could see if you are flying solo and dont mind peeing in a bottle, otherwise I view LOP as a way to save fuel to avoid a stop I want to make anyway. That said, I absolutely use LOP when I am trying to juggle fuel flow to land with 16 gal and a full plane load of passengers and luggage. I then usually start out ROP and switch to LOP if I need to slow down the fuel flow. There is no one correct answer, just a bunch of tools in our toolchest.

I have a 2000 O2 that had the same issue. New mounts and everything was fine until a nose gear collapse (metal fatigue, not bounce) caused an IRAN. Came back with the same sag. Phil Jimenez at KAVO made her right again this last annual. Give Phil a call, he’s a Mooney whisperer.

To completely hijack this thread and get everyone's thoughts: I am starting to think about pulling my vacuum system and putting in two GI275's. I have a KFC-225 that is great but (here's where the collective sigh starts) I went with an Avidyne 540/440 combo for my NAV/COM. I love the units but am not sure what will happen when I make that Franken panel. Eventually I will upgrade the autopilot and would love the GFC 500. BTW this will be next year because my wife wanted a new paint job and seat redo that is on the books for this summer (seems like the wives like new paint!).

Thanks all for the advice. I'm definitely trying to reconcile a bunch of different information from presumably very reliable sources. Reading John Deakin and Mike Busch then comparing that to what is said here on Mooneyspace and the POH (and the final confounder is my 10,000 hr CFII A&P/AI who has 2000 hrs in his 1998J) has proved challenging. I suspect if I was in quadruple digits for my flying hours I might have a different perspective but I'm still in the phase where I want to learn ravenously but keep it simple in the cockpit. Thanks so much for your guidance, it is incredibly appreciated!

jlunseth Since I don't have O2 in my O2 I never fly above 10,000 ft . Most of my trips are less than 1 hr so I'm usually at 8500 tops anyway. I was taught to reduce MP to 25 after 1000 ft AGL on climb. So when you say leave throttle all the way open that would mean I have to advance my throttle once in cruise prior to leaning. Is that correct?

Hi all, new to this LOP vs ROP thought. Have only 200hrs in my ppl and 100hrs in my Ovation 2. Now that I can fly the plane well I added a JPI 830 to better manage the engine. I like speed but definitely don't want to burn more avgas than necessary for that speed. I have read the JPI manual countless times. Is there a post that has basic fuel flow settings for my IO-550 with corresponding MP and RPM's for 75% and 65% power. I follow the visor settings (cruise power settings) for MP/RPM but this is ROP and doesn't really get to leaning ROP. What I would really like is a simple approach to setting cruise at 2300 RPM (lower sound and presumably less wear on the engine in the long run) that gets me 75% or 65% power ROP and LOP out of the red box so I can talk to ATC and get everything all situated before spending head down time with the JPI to clean it all up as precise as possible. Thanks, I value your experience

carusoam, I transitioned with Rob McGuire at KGNV. Great guy and would recommend him to anyone in the area.

100kts, 90kts,80kts (downwind, base, final) quickly dialing in up trim to slow to 68 over the numbers (higher if gust factor is needed or at max weight). Power off on short final if possible. If it looks like I'm sinking fast in the flair I'll twist in 1.5 turns of throttle. My O2 has VG's so she handles well in slow flight and doesn't fall even if the stall horn goes off in ground effect. Low time Mooney rookie who just finished my transition training. Take what I say with caution.

I have them on my 2000 O2 and feel more confident knowing that I have a few extra kts of protection when slow. I have nothing to compare to as they came with my plane when purchased. Being able to confidently land at 68 kts with total control and no float makes them priceless to me. Once I realized that keeping speeds lower (except when gusting) was the key to great landings, they were a no brainer. BTW I have no problem doing 175-180 kts in cruise.

Moonbeam. I was going to name her Moonshine but thought that might invite FAA ramp checks

MB, I was in your place a few months ago. Still finishing up my PPL and starting my presumably long search for an Ovation 2 DX. As it turned out I found my near ideal plane within a couple of months. While the timing wasn't perfect I went ahead and purchased it. Insurance costs $7100 for the first year. It's a challenge trying to fly two planes and I decided to finish up my PPL in a 172. I only have about 6 hours in the M20R (I couldn't resist flying it a little) and it's a dream, but definitely different from flying the 172. I wouldn't say its any harder to fly, but it definitely requires more attention to engine parameters and airspeed. Definitely requires a lot more attention to stay ahead of the plane. So if you get the Mooney now you may prolong your training before getting your PPL which will cost you more. The additional insurance premium of being a student will be significant. Ultimately you have to decide if the added cost of owning the plane "early" is worth it. Since I was looking for a very specific model with very specific setup (no AC and no TKS) I felt the added upfront cost was worth it for a plane I plan to have a long time. That said, if you can wait I would. The added cost would have been nice for the avionics upgrade I am doing now.