Rick Junkin

I'm a fan of LOP ops and consistently run my 1989 TLS/Bravo at the same power settings every flight, unless I want to pull it back for sight seeing. I posted this in another thread, repeating it here to offer a different perspective. On the LOP side at 11-12,000’ I see 165-170KTAS at 13.2gph (70%) and 30”/2200RPM. I also have TKS. For reference, here’s a screen shot of my G3X at 6,000’. Adding 2 KTAS per thousand feet up to 12,000’ the math shows 170KTAS, which of course will vary with OAT/ISA offset.

On the LOP side at 11-12,000’ I see 165-170KTAS at 13.2gph (70%) and 30”/2200RPM. I also have TKS. For reference, here’s a screen shot of my G3X at 6,000’. Adding 2 KTAS per thousand feet up to 12,000’ the math shows 170KTAS, which of course will vary with OAT/ISA offset.

Merry Christmas @Hank! I transit the ATL Class B north to south and south to north, 90 degrees out with the runways, a few times a year and have never been denied. Your flight path alignment with the runways is a different story. Congrats on hitting it “just right”.

@George Braly, any chance you have a copy of what you posted? If so, could you post it again here so we can refer to it in the future? There was a lot of good information there that I'd like to be able to find again.

UPDATE: I pulled the G5 SD card only to find that data logging has been turned off the whole time. DOH!!! It's on now so I'll be able to look at it if the problem asserts again. I'll be taking a break from Mooneyspace and all other social media for the foreseeable future. I need less face-in-the-screen time and more butt-in-the-air and other hobby time to help me recage a bit. Peace out! Cheers, Junkman

I copied this G5 list from POA Parameters: UTC Date (yyyy-mm-dd) UTC Time (hh:mm:ss) GPS Fix Status GPS Sats Latitude (WGS84 deg) Longitude (WGS84 deg) GPS Altitude (WGS84 ft) GPS HDOP GPS VDOP GPS Velocity (m/s) GPS Ground Speed (kt) GPS Ground Track (deg true) Magnetic Heading (deg) Magnetic Variation (deg) Pressure Altitude (ft) Baro Setting (inch Hg) Baro Altitude (ft) Vertical Speed (fpm) Indicated Airspeed (kt) True Airspeed (kt) Pitch (deg) Roll (deg) Turn Rate (deg/sec) Slip/Skid Lateral Acceleration (G) Normal Acceleration (G) Active Nav Source Nav Course (deg) Nav Frequency (MHz) Horizontal Deviation Vertical Deviation VNAV Deviation VNAV Flight Path Angle (deg) VNAV Target Altitude (ft) Attitude Status Internal Temperature (deg C) Battery Status Battery Charge (%) Resolution: 1Hz (1/second)

Here's the link for the full context of what I cut and pasted. Judge for yourself. Try to avoid the jump to the ridiculous this time. https://gsl.noaa.gov/tmp/302-redirect

What I meant was I think the claim that the site was pulled because blind people can't use it is a bogus claim.

I think the "not accessible for blind people" ADA explanation is a bogus misdirect. Here's what I just got from the NOAA site, including recommended alternate sources of the data.

Everyone likes their panel design going into an upgrade project. Hours and hours of thought and "what ifs" go in to the layout. I'm no different and I really love how it came out, but there are a few things I would think through differently now that I've had a year to fly behind it. Mine looks quite similar to your plan, accepting the GMC507 location. I'd put the GMC507 where you have yours. I set my panel up so that everything I needed to touch inflight was accessible with my right hand, and I run the G3X split screen most of the time with the EIS and PFD on the left side. I make all my altimeter, altitude and heading adjustments through the G5 and the GMC507 rather than with the left knobs on the G3X. This is easy with the G5 and GMC507 at the top of the panel, but would be even easier if the 507 was under the G3X. I would think more about a clean sheet design on the panel, rather than constraining myself with the standard placement for the radio stack and the gear switch/trim indicators. I would look at moving those switches/indicators and the G5 and the strike finder elsewhere so I could have the radio stack right next to the G3X. This makes it easier to access the GTN650 for the flight plan elements and procedures that don't pass through the G3X for IFR ops. Not a huge deal as it isn't difficult to fat finger the GTN650 in the standard location but it would be easier. In my case I would move my GDU 470 from the right side of the panel and put it next to the GDU460. However, a lot of things have to move around to move the G5, so there are trade-offs. I agree that moving the USB ports to the bottom of the panel is a good idea, unless you're needing to power a portable device on the glareshield. I have the Electroaire mag/start switch panel and really like it. @Pinecone is right, the mag switches have a light and cheesy feel to them compared to mil spec switches but they work and have a decent positive over-center switch function. Some things to consider with the Electroaire as compared to a keyed ignition switch is engine start requires a new habit pattern to make sure you get the second mag on after start, and at shutdown you need to make sure you add a checklist step to confirm you've turned the mag switches off. "Key on the glareshield" isn't a thing anymore. I moved my headset jacks from under the panel up onto the panel on the pilot side to get them out of the way. I found that I kept bumping the plugs with my knee in the original recessed location under the panel and that's why I moved them. A better location would be to move them to the side panel in a recessed housing like in the later model Mooneys. EDIT: Something else we did that required a minor modification to the installation was to put the TOGA button on the left horn of the yoke. We used the CWS button on the King autopilot cluster since CWS isn't available for the certified GFC500. That way both the A/P disconnect button and the GA button are under my left thumb as I approach minimums, and I select the proper one as appropriate. I also used the remote mount Guardian CO detector and interfaced it with the G3X. I get CO values from 0ppm, rather than from 30ppm with the 553 model, and I also get a CAS message and a tone on the G3X if the sustained CO level goes above 50ppm. The CO level is recorded along with all of the other flight and engine data on the G3X data card. And it's one less thing taking up panel space. You might consider putting the compass out of the way on the right side of the panel. You would need it if the whole panel went down, but in normal operation you will never look at it. So consider using the valuable panel space areas for other things. Just as an aside, I understand the DC8 cockpit had the compass located on the back wall behind the pilots.

Another option is to put the dehydrator hose into the oil fill tube. I got a silicone stopper that fit the fill tube and drilled a hole through the center of it for the dehydrator hose. It’s not the recommended method but definitely puts dryed air in the cam area of my Lycoming.

Here's my sunset pic passing Chattanooga Tuesday night. I didn't realize it when I took the pic but the aileron trailing edge is reflecting the sunlight. Kinda cool, looks like I have LED edge lighting.

Wow. Makes me wonder how many other folks have the same/similar issues with the dual G5 lash-up. Sorry to hear of your trials. All of these issues are safety of flight issues. I’m wondering why nothing has been released to restrict using this gear for IFR. Not that I want a formal restriction. But they did put out the restrictive SB (AD?) for the runaway trim problem a year or two ago. What’s the threshold? I forgot to pull the G5 data card Tuesday so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow when I’m at the hangar to see what that data reveals. With the G3X and GSU25 operational I don’t believe the GFC 500 is polling the G5 for any data but that’s a guess on my part.

My hangar neighbor Barry with the Bo that's having the same issue also has the 011-02929-56 installed. His installer told him this morning that the Garmin rep he works with is adamant that they are working on a software fix for the exact issue he and I are having. So it could be that my new GSU 25D won't make any difference, and I just haven't exercised it enough to precipitate the failure. However if my airplane doesn't act up again, Barry's installer has agreed to replace his on warranty too. It's really puzzling how the majority of installations are trouble-free but the installations with issues have the same or very similar issues. And it really surprised me that Barry's Bo and my Mooney have exactly the same issue. I'm guessing the Garmin engineers are scratching their heads as well. From my work experience with a major aerospace company, I'd surmise the head scratching is either because they can't determine a root cause or because management won't allow them to address the root cause for these one-off cases. There, that's my conspiracy theorizing for the day. Besides, the Garmin field rep says they are working on a software fix. Should be any day now. Yup, any day.

I ran across something that led me to believe the -56 vs -51 has to do with altitude/environmental capability but that didn’t make much sense to me. I was surfing specs across multiple sites and unfortunately don’t remember where I saw that. So basically this is a useless post

I keep my software up to date. I’m running v9.18 in the G3X along with all of the associated component software updated with the release of 9.18. I learned today that there are several different part numbers for the GSU 25D. My shop today swapped my original GSU 25 part number 010-01071-56 for the most recent GSU 25 part number 011-02929-56. I don’t know what was changed, but I remember reading about it when the new part came out. There was an SB for it I believe. At any rate the GFC 500 was solid from departure all the way through a coupled RNAV approach I let go almost to the runway. VFR of course. But it was a short 1.5 hour flight. I’ll see how it does on my next 2+ hour trip.

What I want to see is something from Garmin describing what they did to address the problem, rather than an apparent stealth update to the STC gains with no information about what changes they made or why they made them. My shop is a Platinum Garmin dealer/installer and I’m going to be visiting them today and tomorrow. I’ll report back with anything I learn while I’m there. EDIT: The shop has no experience with the issues I'm having but they agree its most likely an intermittent air data problem in the GSU 25. So they're swapping in a new one for me under warranty. We'll see if that does the trick. Oh, and of course the A/P was rock solid through hard IFR and moderate turbulence all the way here, a 1.3 hour flight.

No, I was IFR. I asked for a block altitude 6000-8000 and deviations left and right of course and they gave me the clearance. So I cloud surfed for almost an hour avoiding the ice. And yes, the pictures don't do it justice. The dark spots look a lot darker in real life.

A bit sporty this past Wednesday climbing over Knoxville on my way to St Louis. Thar's ice in them thar clouds! I was able to maneuver around most of the broken and overcast to avoid it. I didn't get any pictures but the trip home Thursday afternoon was just as, if not more, fun. It's that time of year. And the winds weren't my friend either. They only got worse the higher I went. Although the trip home on Thursday saw 200+ all the way. All in all a good trip!

Thanks Skip, I missed the paragraph in the AFMS. The GSU 25 is my number one suspect for both airplanes. My trip Monday is to my avionics shop for some other minor stuff so I may ask him if he’ll do a warranty swap on the GSU 25 as the most likely cause. Of course that will require a call to Garmin for approval, so who knows.

Sorry, I should have mentioned I’ve combed the data on the G3X data card after every flight and all that is there is the A/P fail messages. No other data aberrations that would have contributed to the failure. No indications of GPS faults either. I haven’t looked at the G5 data but I’ll do that tomorrow. I do have an SD card in the G5 but I never look at it. As for the airspeed trend indicator, Barry has seen it without the autopilot engaged (the pic in my first post) but I have not. Also, both airplanes here have had recent pitot static checks and are good. We’re both going to concentrate on watching what the G5 is doing on our next flights. Barry is going up tomorrow, and I have a trip on Monday.

THE PROBLEM: My GFC 500 disconnects intermittently and the G3X A/P scoreboard displays a flashing red A/P and flashing yellow HDG and PIT. The airspeed turns yellow, and the airspeed trend bar (magenta bar on the right side of the airspeed tape) is pegged at the top but the airspeed is not changing. Here's a pic from a friend's Bo that has the same anomaly. His system will also intermittently flash the yellow HDG and PIT and give the same airspeed/airspeed trend indications even with A/P disengaged. The pic is of that case. You need to zoom in to see the magenta airspeed trend bar. Has anyone else seen this, or heard of anyone who has? I'm thinking it's an intermittent air data problem. I think the runaway airspeed trend input is tripping the GSU 25 or GFC 500 fault monitors and knocking the A/P offline and showing the airspeed, HDG and PIT as unreliable. My friend's avionics shop contacted Garmin and they said they've seen this in experimental installations but not in a certified installation. They said they've seen it, but offered no diagnosis of what causes it. They said it would be addressed in a future software release, but gave no details as to when or with what level of urgency. My next troubleshooting step is to pull the GSU 25 circuit breaker and fly with the G5 ADAHRS providing input to the GFC 500 and see if the behavior persists. It's interesting that the G3X pilot guide talks about yellow/amber indications, but makes no mention of flashing indications or their meaning. WHY IT'S A BIG DEAL TO ME I sent this anomaly to Garmin when it first started happening right after my installation last year and was told they already had an open engineering ticket for the issue and they would add my flight data files to that ticket. There have been two software releases since then and the problem persists. I generally avoid using the A/P in "hard" IFR because of my lack of confidence in it. Which of course defeats the whole purpose of having the autopilot in the first place. I've reached the point where I'm ready to devote the time, energy, travel and money to aggressively engage Garmin in the interest of a fix for this issue. I don't want to go through the same ringer we went through with the pitch oscillation issue. I think if there was a legal accountability approach for resolving this someone else would have already initiated it. I have no idea how many airplanes exhibit this anomaly. But I know for sure of two, and we're at the same home field with brand B and brand M airplanes with nearly identical avionics suites installed by two different, reputable shops. Anyone have insight on this one?

I believe it is indeed TKS fluid. I ran the TKS on the previous flight and didn’t notice anything abnormal, but discovered today that my prop slingers aren’t getting any fluid. (I know, should have caught that during preflight but I didn’t prime the system that day, didn’t think I’d need it). It’s highly probable the line to the slingers is leaking and flowing the fluid behind the side panel and on to the cockpit floor. Annual is next month, one more thing added to the list. Good call, @skykrawler.

Good question - it didn't feel like TKS fluid, I'm pretty sure it was water. Haven't made it back out to the airplane yet.

Careful with the v-band during removal!