AlexLev

Local avionics shop suggested I give http://www.bevanrabell.com/ a call -- I did and it seems like they are only able to fix buttons, but with the knob, he mentioned the flex strip might have worn and they can't help with that. So, my only option seems to be sending it to Garmin. Ah well. They'll probably end up charging me $900 to replace a 95 cent part. :|

Just like this? https://www.walmart.com/ip/CRC-Electronic-Cleaner-11-Oz./16817418 -- do I just spray right on the knob? LOL. Can it hurt anything?

Hey everyone! Was doing a flight today and the outer right knob that I use to flip pages on the 430w, type in airports (KXXX) was wonky. If I turned right three times, it would work, then my next right turn it would flip left, and then it seemingly stopped working all together. Happened in flight suddenly. Anyone ever experienced this? What are my options? I'm a new owner and done a little research, but is there anything else aside from Garmin's flat fee? I would hate to be charged $900 for a stupid-simple fix. I'll call some local avionics shops and see if they can offer any suggestions as well, but thought I'd post here too.

I considered both a 182 and a Mooney and while a 182 seemed more practical for my mission (3 other adults), I bit the bullet and bought a Mooney after riding in one. I told myself I'd alter my mission for that plane. Forget the pax! I'm still in the process of closing, but I'll let you know if I regret it. Spoiler: I probably won't.

I thought about this bird but was personally turned off on the fact that the engine was overhauled by the owner's relatives and not a legit shop. In the prebuy, I'd focus as much as possible on checking the health of the engine. Bought an M20G instead.

I think the asking price is way too high on this plane. 59k and no WAAS GPS? I'd also bet there was a prop strike or some sort of damage history. I wouldn't personally offer more than 35k for this bird given the current market. If an IFR WAAS GPS isn't that important to you, 40k is doable, but given the seller's super high asking price, I really doubt you'll come together on a deal on this plane. My advice: keep looking.

Thanks for all the advice! I contacted Dixie Aire and will be looking to work with them.

Yes, there was a bank as the assignee assigned with the assignor being another bank. Is it current that the lien was assigned than to another bank? I called the broker today who is selling the plane. He said the owner may still owe a small bit of money on it (5K or so) but that will paid off with the final sale and I will get a clear title. I will also call the bank on Monday to confirm details and make sure I get the necessary paperwork over to the FAA to confirm the airplane is not tied up with a bank security. If anyone has any other advice, let me know.

Hey -- so I signed a prepurchase agreement for a Mooney M20G (my first plane!) and one of the stipulations is that the title is free of encumbrances, liens, etc. I just flew the airplane in for a prebuy/annual yesterday. About 10 days ago, I ordered from the FAA all the aircraft records they have on file on CD. The airworthiness part looks great with all appropriate STCs filed with the FAA. The registration is a bit confusing, now granted I'm not entirely sure on how to interpret it. When the owner purchased it, there was an Aircraft Security Agreement filed (https://www.faa.gov/forms/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/186165)...about 5 years later, there was an "Assignment to Aircraft Security Filed" where the assignor from one bank maybe gives the security as the assignee to another bank? The quote is: There is no other paperwork afterward except for renewal of registration, change of address, etc. Does that mean there is a lien on the airplane as far as the FAA is concerned? Anyone have any experience with this? A broker is selling the airplane for the owner (who is a fellow Mooneyspace member!) because he is deployed overseas. Any help with this would be appreciated -- or would you suggest contacting a title company and seeing what professional help they can offer? If so, any references are also appreciated! Thanks!

Was about to go look at it tomorrow morning with another 20J owner (thank you to these forums!!!) who reached out, but owner just texted me and said: "20J Seller ALB: Alex, I believe the aircraft was just sold. $55,000 9:15 PM Me: Oh yeah? Congratulations if that's the case. Not meeting then tomorrow? 9:15 PM 20J Seller ALB: Not sure I see the need. If it fails the pre-purchased, then you didn't want that either. 9:21 PM Me: Yeah, true. I wasn't going to buy it without having a cylinder removed to look inside anyway. 9:22 PM " Guess I'm not going to own this plane: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_files/1/1/7/9/0/3/2/1179032-N201DL.pdf

Thanks, Brian. Good suggestions. If the engine seems to be performing well, had good compression checks, no metal in oil analysis; what are some other indicators one looks at to see if it's safe to operate without performing an overhaul? More info about this particular plane: The 430 is not IFR approved, which is a bit of a ding (big sticker that says that the 430 is not IFR approved) because apparently: "That was a technicality. Back in 2004 there was a STC for the install, then had to be test flown for IFR approval. Never done it, or documented. Unit works fine. Considered in price. Wouldn't need a WAAS upgrade, approximately $4000 if desired." Also, doesn't seem to have an A/P...what are some solutions to install an A/P? This plane is more or less local, but I found an interesting 20F on the market as well: http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1183463_1975+Mooney+M20F.html Seems like a super plane, aside from the higher time engine (but at least its been flying regularly so I'd have more confidence in it despite the higher hours). "It has no fuel bladders, it’s a wet wing, both tanks were stripped and resealed 6/20/02 by Midwest Mooney sales and service, Flora Ill., my price considers the engine time as it was a deduction on my appraisal last week. I flight plan 142 knots probably around 145 knots. Last year I had the fuel injection servo and associated components overhauled here in Tulsa. No cylinders have been changed since overhaul and the compression at last annual in June was 70, 74, 74, 70 / 80" Anyone if the average F or J owner spends more on maintenance?

Cool! ^ Sent you a PM! Congrats on the '66C purchase!

Curious about taking a look at a potential 201 with someone who has some experience with Mooney's or can put me in touch with someone around the area. I happen to currently be on a train to Albany for a work trip and may have a few hours to see the plane, but I wouldn't really know what to look for if I go see it, etc and don't know any pilots in the area. Here's the listing: Asking: $61,000 LOW TIME 1976 Mooney 201 J model. - Clean, well maintained. - Only 1136 hours airframe and engine since Factory new! - Clean interior with new leather seats, plastics. Clean windows. Fuel tank conversion. - Garmin 430 GPS/Com, JPI EDM 800 Engine Mgmt. 396 AirGizmo Power Flow exhaust system. - This is a very low time and desired Mooney model 201J. - Selling due to upgrade to Ovation. - IFR due 06/2017. Annual good 'til October 2017, comes with fresh annual. - Complete logbooks. Will sell quickly. Fast / Clean / Affordable 61k is on the low end for 201s. I assume it's because the engine is from 1978 and has barely been flown. I sent the seller a few texts... "me: Hi - curious about the 201. What's the UL on that one? How is engine running, if it's got so few hours it must have not flown very much...not very good for it. Him: No, the plane has not flown a whole lot in the last few years. Frequently started and run, regularly inspected. Runs great, start right up, mechanic likes it. 8:19 AM Him: I'll have to get you a useful load in a little while. 8:20 AM Him: I am awaiting a deposit from someone, but first come… First served. 8:23 AM Him: No Waas 8:50 AM Him: I do not have the UL with me at the office. 9:00 AM This is a wonderfully low time / two owner / priced right airplane. Owner is motivated, selling because he also owns and fles a Mooney Ovation. 9:01 AM Me: Do you know what work needs to be done on it? I'm interested depending on how much needs to be put into it. Airplanes that aren't flown a lot usually have a lot of squawks build up over the years 9:10 AM Him: Absolutely nothing needs to be done. Any and all squawks were looked at last inspection " Thoughts? Are there reliable ways to measure engine strength? It is assumed that because the plane has flown so little it's bound to have mountains of problems? I'm looking at a potential first Mooney and have lots of questions and would love to find someone in the WNY/CNY area who is willing to help a novice out. I'd like to have a useful load of close to 1,000lbs. I've definitely found some 20Fs that fit that, the Js seem to be able to haul less. Is there any wisdom for whether the Fs or Js would be more expensive to maintain? It would be my first airplane and I'd have to learn a lot.

Congrats. I've recently got my eyes on an F; may get one if I find a good one! I mainly fly Archers now and my mission is mostly 400 mile + cross countries with 3 other people. The extra cabin space makes an F possible for the cross countries esp if I find one with over 1050lbs useful load. Question for you F owners: how likely is it to find one that can do an honest 145 knots? Also curious if an F is cheaper to maintain than a J? I guess it's very plane dependent, but what are thoughts in general?

Curious what the useful load is?

It's still open, they just constructed an FBO, but fuel prices are ridiculous at 9G0, I generally fly at BQR as part of the flying club, there is a M20C for sale at 9G0 that I wanted to discuss snagging up with a partner. Next time you fly into Buffalo, give me a holler!

I should clarify as there are so many Buffalo cities that I mean Buffalo, NY. The plane could potentially be hangared at 9G0.

Hey there -- Interested in finding a partner for an cross country traveling plane, feel free to post here or message me if you're interested (in Buffalo). Open to considering different types as long as it is a good XC traveling machine with a decent useful load.

I'm excited, just cautious ;). I'd need to take it on a cross country to really get a feel for it and be excited, as that is it's intended mission ;). Shall see.

Took a pretty quick look at the plane this morning and chatted with the owner. We flew it for about 10-15 minutes, nothing too extensive. Learned there was a prop strike in its past with the previous owner in 1992 or so. The tail back of the tail had a minor bend that was straightened out. He said it was hangar rash that happened when he had it in a larger hangar at another airport, the place straightened it out. Other than that, it seemed to fly okay. Owner is not sure he wants a partner, probably looking to sell outright. He has owned the plane since 1997 (I believe). He has put 1600 hours on it over the last 18 years. The plane definitely seemed to be sitting around. He printer the Vref value of it to be 30.5k and that seems to be what he wants. I'm not really that excited about the plane after sitting in it, noticing some of its bugs and its timed out engine, but would consider offering him 20k-22k for it pending a prebuy inspection. He just started the selling process now, so he hasn't put the plane up anywhere and I think I was one of the first people to take a look at it. He said he may consider a partnership if he can't find someone to buy it outright, but I don't know if I really want to buy in on this airplane if the cost is me overhauling the engine. It also didn't seem to fly very fast (but it was hard to measure true speed over ground, I wish we did by flying in 4 different directions at a constant power setting to see what speeds the plane seemed to produce), but he kept the rpm 2300-2400 since we were quite low the whole time. It also has no shoulder strap and the engine instruments are not in a standard shape. One of the radios doesn't light up well in the cold and the left fuel indicator seemed to not work well. How much would it cost to at least put a shoulder harness in the thing? Again with a 2500hour engine (engine remanufactured in 86, top overhaul in 92 [prolly after the prop strike], the old avionics (but the stec and storm scope, carb heat temp Guage and fuel flow meter are nice), it's probably a tough plane to sell. He mentioned the oil leaked at some point, but he had it fixed up. I haven't looked at the logs yet so I'm sure there's lots to learn there. He mentioned his annuals generally cost him 2.2 to 2.7k. It was my first time flying in a 20c and using the Johnson bar. Kinda fun. I like how the airplane feels and handles. The manual gear will take some getting used to I'm sure. It was more cramped with 2 people than I anticipated and I can't imagine 3 or 4 people in there, although he claims he had 4 people he flew to Indiana at some point. Despite all that the plane seemed to fly okay. At 20-22k I think it's probably a fair price as long as there are no signs of corrosion and the engine is not making metal, despite it being 2500 SMOH. I'd love for someone with some 20c experience to take a look at it too, so that might be my next step.

Thanks for posting this -- this is sort of the idea, although it may be tough to negotiate psychologically something like him paying toward the value of the overhaul. If I pay for the overhaul AND he gives me some $ and I get half the airplane, he may feel like he is losing out, despite what the actual value of the airplane may be. I like the idea of buying in with the idea of buying the rest of the plane later. That's sort of what I'm hoping to do, but in your case -- how did you handle the fixed costs (hangar, etc) while the other partner technically still owned half? Did you split the hangar fees with him or take on all those fixed costs yourself?

Thanks for all the great replies so far. Lot's of great information and things to look for. For those curious, here are the specific specs for this airplane: TT ~ 4800 Avionics: S-Tec 60-2 with altitude hold and glideslope lock WX 900 Stormscope (BF Goodrich) JP Instruments FS-450 Fuel Mgmt. System Narco MK 12D-IS0 Nav/Com MX 170C Nav/Com w/ glide slope Narco DME 890 TR661A Bendix Transponder with Alt. Encoder Edo-Aire R556 ADF receiver and indicator (inoperative) Three light marker beacon system Electric Vertical Compass Airframe: 2 owners since new - "CLEAN WING STYLE" Always Hangered - 201 Paint scheme is a "7-8" All applicable ADs and SBs for Engine & Airframe satisfied as of 12/14 (including new aileron control links by Lake Aero Styling). 3-Blade Hartzell Prop. w/ polished spinner. Lycoming Engine: Clydesdale (O-360-A1D) 180 hp (Engine TT 4395 ~ 2400SMOH) Oil Filter Kit System Reiff Heater Cylinder Ban Misc: Fuel Tank Bladders by O&N (54.4 gal. sys.) Cloth interior (Grey) - a "8-9" Manual gear and flaps (so simple) Vacuum Pump Standby Vacuum System SVS3 Precise Flight 50 Amp Alcore Alternator Kit Whalen Strobe Good Tires. wheel bearings, brakes & Hoses New ELT Battery & Starter (2014) No asking price. I talked to owner on the phone and he seemed like a stand up guy for the 30 minuets we talked on the phone, going to meet him this Saturday at a local airfield to take a look at the airplane. If we can work out a partnership where I help overhaul the engine in exchange for 50% of the airplane, I would definitely consider that and can pay cash, but yeah I understand partnerships can be tricky and this will be a process of getting to know this guy a bit better and taking time to do a thorough prebuy on the airplane as well. Lancaster, PA service center came recommended to me which I could fly to. The closest authorized Mooney Service Center to me is http://www.chautaircraft.com/default.htm Anyone have any experience with them?

Hi all! Have really enjoyed reading some of the posts in this community and appreciate you being here. I'm considering buying my first airplane. I just got my PPL in May but have already put over 100 hours on it since May (260hours TT or so) flying XCs in an Archer (through a flying club) and would love to have something like a 20C to make those long XCs a bit more fun. I'm not IFR yet, but have started the process and will hopefully finish up by early Spring. An M20C seems to fit my mission, so does a Cardinal RG. I would prefer to go at this with a partner. It just so happened that I found a 20C hangared locally that is for sale. It is a 1966 and I'm going to take a look at it this weekend. I've sat in a 20C, but never flown in one yet. I mentioned to the owner that I'm more interested in buying half of an airplane, he's had it for about 10 years and he says his average annual is about $2200 and he's just flying it less and less to justify ownership (but still about 50-75hrs/year). He mentioned he will think about my offer to buy 50% of the airplane and share it with him. This particular plane has a high time engine (2500 hrs SMOH) and he mentioned that my buy in for the airplane could be overhauling the engine. Although, why overhaul the engine if it's not making metal and doing well at 2500 SMOH? What do you think about that? Anyway - I'm not too mechanically inclined, so I'm afraid of ownership on my own, but would ideally like to find a partner so I could learn more, but bearing the entire responsibility of maintaining an aircraft seems a little cumbersome to me at this point in my life. Anyway some specific questions: * Any suggestions on where to go for a prebuy near Buffalo, NY (east coast -- I saw the ultimate recommendation was TX but not sure it's feasible to fly it there for the prebuy). * This is very variable, how far would 10k per year get me with aircraft ownership in a 20C? * 3-bladed prop vs 2-bladed. This one is a 3-bladed. I'm not too sure on what the positives / negative on each. I'll do some searching and look though, so you fine people don't have to repost what's probably been said many times :P. * Any other words of wisdom are appreciated! I think I'm too excited and need to take a breather, implore some patience and take my time. Thanks!