johncuyle

It's cool, your contemplation of the possibility of retiring from your K model to a J-modded E also makes you my spirit guide. You can go first and let me know how much I'll regret doing it. Or not doing it sooner, or something. I nearly bought an E with J mods and I go back and forth between loving the peace and quiet of the high teens and wishing I didn't need so much runway to get off the ground.

I had this kit installed. Worth every penny, completely solves the problem of sticking but... you really do need to have a plan for go around solo without the assistance of electric trim. Those crummy BK trim switches fail from time to time and often with little to no warning. If they give warning it is in the form of periodically not working until the microswitches finish arcing themselves to death. I'm not exactly buff (Q: Do you even lift bruh? A: Do pint glasses count?) and I can hold the plane level at maximum up trim at climb power long enough to use the trim wheel to crank the trim down, so it doesn't require too much strength -- maybe a little more than a pushup. (Had this happen once with a CFI in the plane. His comment, "That looked like a lot of work. Glad you're doing the flying.") Strategy to make this easier: Start running the electric trim as soon as you choose to go around. Make it muscle memory item 1 on go around, before adding power. This gives you a few advantages: Nose down trim ahead of power reduces the maximum arm power necessary to hold it at go around attitude. If your electric trim switch decides to pick that exact moment to fail, you know about it before you jam the throttle forward. Which gives you the option to feed in partial power to arrest the descent, then wheel in a few handfuls of nose down, then adjust the power again. Or if the trees look uncomfortably close, at least you know you're going to need to push hard and wheel in trim fast after applying climb power. Additional: Flap retraction makes the problem worse. Take a beat or two before flipping the switch to make sure everything is working right.

Fourth post. And, 7 pages later...

With the K model and its radio stack hump, what do people do to fit a flat glareshield after redoing their panel like this? Can you just order one for a different model from Mooney that fits or do you just rebuild it from scratch, integrating appropriate lights and wiring and maybe doing a nice leather wrap or something?

Yes. Before Studebaker is even better.

Shame about Packard, though. I'd still rather have a '56 Caribbean than a Tesla.

I heard your post in Matthew McConaughey's voice in my head.

I also have a 231 with Turboplus intercooler and Merlyn. The Merlyn doesn't change operational parameters, it more or less just makes the turbo more effective at higher altitude by allowing the wastegate to close and also prevents bootstrapping. The intercooler comes with a sheet of paper with a big table on it that gives you equivalent manifold pressure corrected for the temperature drop across the intercooler. It isn't useful in flight because you don't know the performance of the intercooler until after you've set the power. I'll second the suggestion that if you can, get a copy of the 252's power settings and just use that. It's close enough. I don't have a copy of the 252's power settings, so I do the following: Takeoff and climb: Max 36" (unless it's cold then maybe 35" or even 34" if below freezing. You can find the adjustment to max MP for ambient temperature in the 231 POH.) 2700RPM, full rich. You should see 24-25 GPH at 36" and 2700RPM full rich. If you see less fuel flow, have your shop adjust it. MP will creep down as you climb, so you'll need to keep increasing throttle every minute or two. Pitch for airspeed for cooling. I like 110kt since you don't seem to lose any climb performance and gain speed and cooling, but pitch to keep the hottest CHT under 400. I usually try for more like 380 but depending on how urgent gaining altitude is, how long you're planning to climb, and how hot it is, 380 may not be completely realistic. (Climbing out of The Dalles when it's 110dF, you need altitude and you're going to get hot.) Cruise: Your choice of MP and RPM. A lot of people like 2500 RPM, ideal setting depends on the prop. I've got the McCauley 2 blade hot prop and my plane seems to really like 2400-2450 RPM. (Had cruise configured for 2500 RPM and experimented with leaving throttle and mixture alone and playing with RPM, and also adjusting RPM and then re-leaning and mine seemed to gain a couple knots or save a couple tenths of a GPH at the lower RPM.) Set MP based on how fast you want to go. Anything between 25" and 29" or so is reasonable. 25" isn't quite maximum economy but you probably won't want to go slower. Lean for 35dF LOP (on the richest cylinder) and don't exceed TIT limitations. With the intercooler you can ignore CDT. One of the scariest things when you've got your new-to-you 231 is reconfiguring the power from climb to cruise. Climb is easy, red is all the way in, blue is all the way in, black is wherever it needs to be to keep MP in the 33"-36" range, cowl flaps open. Configuring to cruise, do the following: Pitch for level flight and reduce MP to about my desired cruise setting. MP will change on its own when you make other adjustments, so just get it within an inch or so. Reduce RPM to the desired setting. Wait a second. Your engine is running full rich at a reduced power setting. You weren't going to hurt it in climb and you're certainly not going to hurt it now. Close the cowl flaps down. CHTs should be falling quickly right now, and you shouldn't be setting a mixture that's going to get them too hot. Lean until the plane slows down, then enrich very slightly. You're now lean of peak (probably, you've done your GAMI test, right?) Adjust MP if necessary. It'll probably be necessary. Enrich until the first cylinder peaks. Lean until the temperature on that cylinder drops 40-50 degrees. You'll probably be about 35dF LOP at that point because as you lean MP will drop, which means the peak EGT for the cylinder you're using as a basis will also drop. Make sure you are within TIT limits. You'll eventually get a feel for it and/or memorize the fuel flow figure required and be able to get the MP, RPM, and mixture right on the first go. Descent: Pull MP to 18"-20". You can reduce RPM to 2300 or so. If I'm on a long descent to land, I'll gradually screw in the mixture so that I'm full rich by the time I'm down to pattern altitude, and when I'm close to the airport start screwing in RPM such that I'm full rich and 2700 about the time I'm turning 45 to downwind. At that point you can focus on putting the landing gear down. Once that's done you're basically flying a 172. Don't push the black knob in too far if you need to go around, and be prepared for the pitch up.

Ah. Even with my CGR, 2 G5's, and a dual screen G3X I'd still have half my radio stack and half my panel available for displays. To the extent that it isn't just clutter and is useful information, I like to have it. I'd even put a third screen in on the right as a split PFD/MFD (or an iPad to do the same thing.) Gotta keep it looking overwhelming for the non-pilots that ride along. Don't want them to get the impression flying wasn't super complicated, right?

I don't think there's any question that an AI flight engineer would be an incredibly useful tool. I work with (near, anyway) these technologies at my day job. I just also don't see much to be gained by having the default display on my CGR-30 be a big green "OK" instead of its current default, which is my power settings.

Spotting a change or trend in flight gives you options. Oil pressure in cruise is usually something like 55 PSI. If that number slowly starts ticking down, I want to know about it before it hits the 15 PSI yellow zone so that I have more time to find a place to land. If you're talking about using ML or something to develop an AI flight engineer that monitors all the parameters (and a bunch of other inputs would be needed, like throttle, mixture, and prop position sensors, a static feed, cowl flap position, and likely some other stuff) so it can highlight the oil temp when it ticks down from 55 to 50 as oil temp increases with no corresponding increase in power, OAT, altitude, airspeed, or cowl flap reconfiguration, I think that would be awesome. I'm still going to want to see all the parameters all the time, though. One little square or two 3" slots isn't much panel real estate, and most modernized panels now have acres of unused space even with large format engine displays.

Compressor discharge temperature. Don't need it with the intercooler. On my CGR it'll spit out the difference between IAT (intake air temp) and CDT, which figures into the power tables. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was also really disappointed you couldn't do a 10" PFD/MFD + 7" PFD/MFD (no EIS). I wanted the pilot/copilot setup. Not enough to spend the extra on a TXi, but it would have been how I'd probably have configured it. I'm also going to be a while before install due to the ADS-B backup. Maybe I'll luck out and they'll allow three screen installations or allow dual PFD/MFD displays by the time I get around to it. That screenshot helpfully illustrates the concern I had with the "important stuff" display. No TIT or CDT. Not sure if it can be configured to add those. The dedicated 7" EIS didn't seem to show all the stuff I needed on a single page, either. Garmin will probably have a booth at Arlington this year, or maybe I can hit their open house this summer (fabulous door prizes!) and see just how configurable it is, but I really like my CGR-30 pair and the EIS doesn't seem obviously superior.

I see you have a K model. flyingcheesehead's reply reminded me that, looking at the EIS on the G3X I was glad I went ahead with my CGR install. The EIS display on the G3X doesn't appear to give me all the information I need to properly set engine power at a glance (since I have a 231 I need MP, EGT, TIT, FF, and CDT - IAT). If you don't have a decent engine monitor and are planning to go with Garmin's whether you go G3X or TXi, it's worth taking a hard look at the difference in presentation to see if that's a factor for you. For me, my next planned upgrade was to replace my KFC 200 with a GFC 500. A TXi seemed like a luxury item that I couldn't justify the price of. The G3X seems like a luxury, too, but since it'll drive the AP directly and it lets me feed a second nav in, plus provides a VFR GPS for redundancy, it gives me more features that I actually want than the TXi does for less money.

OT: Huh. Nice plane. Reminds me of mine when I bought it but with a worse interior. The MT prop plus intercooler make it good value for money for someone who wants to redo the panel and interior. Wonder if the prop just didn't get overhauled with the engine, finally had an issue, and the owner decided to replace or there was a prop strike. (I always wonder that when I see something like that, though it could be benign. If I could find someone who wanted a low time McCauley hot prop I'd pull mine, upgrade to the MT, and have almost identical numbers.) What's up with the duct for the intercooler, though? That doesn't look like the one included with the turboplus and I wouldn't expect field modifications to the STC to be super easy to certify. I also don't understand why you'd do that.

People who fly with weak-stomached passengers. The Mooney is nowhere near as bad as a Beech, but it does wag some under certain circumstances. For a pilot it is mildly irritating if you even notice. For some passengers it's a big deal.

It's not bad, but I notice it in my K model. I never noticed it when flying J models but I only have about 30 hours in them. Then again, I noticed it the second flight I took in the K. Maybe the K is a bit more susceptible to it than other models due to the CG tending to be farther forward? Edit for 81X: If Garmin asks, tell them you may have sold a yaw damper add-on to a different K owner.

Garmin seems to be pushing the idea that the VFR GPS in the G3X, while not legal to shoot an IFR approach with, is better than no second GPS or a portable if you lose your (e.g.) GTN 650 in the clouds. I think, as a second backup, the GNC 255 makes more sense. Gives you a second radio, VOR, and ILS if you lose the GTN and you have the integrated VFR GPS as an advisory tool. I think that's likely to end up being my radio stack since I already have the GTN 650.

Probably not as dangerous as losing your AI in IMC and needing to keep it shiny side up using just the TC and altimeter. Dangerous is relative. And if you have two G3X screens and one fails, it will fail over to split screen PFD/MFD. They were really clear about that in the webinar. So if you went dual 7" you'd need both to fail before you were down to just the G5.

I don't think this is a Garmin thing so much as it is a consequence of the certification path for this system. Dynon's Skyview Certified also has pretty (very) limited interoperability. It won't drive a King AP either. You can pay more for the TSO'd certified panels like the Aspen or the G500 and get interoperability or accept more limited interoperability as one of the limitations of the lower cost STC'd experimental panels. I liked the sound of the GFC 500 but the Dynon can't drive that either, or an STEC from what I understand, and being locked in to whatever AP Dynon use was a major deterrent to buying it (since my main problem is I want to get rid of my BK AP in favor of something less murderous.) Addition: According to the BT thread, the experimental G3X works with the TruTrak. It also works with a ton of other Garmin stuff that the certified model won't, and is available in a bunch more screen configurations, including allowing up to four screens. I doubt Garmin decided to limit the certified version to two screens because they feel bad about taking your money for four.

A second screen provides full reversion capability in the event the PFD fails, according to the webinar. As does a G5. They had slides for both 10+7 reversion and single screen + G5 reversion. I kind of like the screen real estate, so 10+7 on the left and a pair of G5 on the right might not be a bad setup. For dual instruction or if the right seater is a pilot in IMC, etc.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat as I am WRT AP. I've owned my plane for two and a half years and the KFC 200 has worked reliably for a grand total of about six months of that. I need to replace it with something and my options are BK vaporware plus one G5, half as much BK vaporware and an Aspen, or GFC 500. This wasn't a hard decision yesterday and it isn't any harder today (my panel is getting a BK-ectomy), but if I wanted the extra features of the Aspen like synthetic vision and the ability to feed two nav sources into it, I now have the G3X as a reasonable step up option from just the pair of G5 that I'd be getting with the GFC 500. Other details I got from asking questions at the webinar: Apparently there's an external battery backup for the G3X Certified that doesn't seem to be mentioned on the website. Presumably two 7" plus the battery is sufficient for backup without G5. It's as redundant as two G5, anyway. You cannot configure the G3X Certified as pilot/copilot with a 10" screen on the left configured as PFD/MFD and a 7" screen on the right also configured as PFD/MFD. You can with G500 TXi. This is a luxury feature for me, but I note that it is an STC configuration limitation. The experimental system supports up to four screens in any combination with any configuration.

FS510/210 will connect to Foreflight. They will probably disable BT on the 375 in favor of running ADS-B in through the FlightStream. GTX 375 does make for an interesting option if you want a second GPS and you need ADS-B. That appears to be exactly its niche. GNC255+GNX375 is about the same price as a GTN650, and about the same capability, except it adds XPDR. G5 can only be connected to one nav source, unless they removed that limitation and it got lost in the wall of new product announcement. I added FS210 and GTX 345R last year, and already had a GTN650. Planned to do GFC 500 next year, but was never really sure what (if anything) to do for a backup nav/radio. Probably not helpful, but if I hadn't just done FS210/GTX345R, I would probably be considering the exact same thing.

However, you can install G5 as a backup, and you get full reversion with GFC 500. This sounds kind of awesome. Wonder what the battery backup time on the G3X is? I was planning to do GFC 500 next year, but G3X 10+7 is only $15k or so. It's really tempting to do something like 10"on the left, pair of G5 for backups, 7" on the right side. Wonder if failover can be set up with that in mind?

And suddenly everyone EXCEPT @m20kmooney looks silly. I'm going to see myself out. It's going to be a busy day finding funds to buy my Mooney G3X Certified.