anthonydesmet

MIkey, I had the same issue. I am a 1+ year owner myself and when I went in for first annual my mech and I noticed no STC in my POH or ref in my logbook. We both assumed they were installed when my airplane went through the Trophy conversion. Just to make sure I called precise flight and the service team there told me where I could find the serial number on each speed brake. After taking a panel off and a flashlight I was able to get one of the serial numbers and called them back. Precise Flight was able to look up model number, who and when they were sold to and also sent me a copy of the STC for my logbook and POH that included operating limits. I would just give the Turbo Plus guys a call. I am sure they have been down this road before. Good luck and welcome.

Gents, Sorry, I didn't think there would be that much interest or I would have posted this initially. Attached is the rear seat removal PDF I found. I started down this road however in the process came up with an option that worked better for me and kept all original equipment. Here is what I did and after you read through the PDF it will probably seem more clear. I also attached a pic of the two dogs: What I ended up doing is swapping my lower hinge screws and upper screws from screws and self locking nuts to pins and cotter keys. I also took off one screw from each upper bracket (I am referring to the bracket that is attached to the back of your upper seat behind the cushion) so my seat brackets swivel down out of the way behind the cushion when I put the seat back in the folded down position. If you don't the brackets that attach to the side of the airframe will get in the way of the arm rest. Then I just put them up when I need them and put a pin and cutter key to re-attach to the upper bracket holes that attach to the airframe. In the PDF instruction the guy actually grinds down and produces a bracket that attaches to the airframe first so the seat back rests on it. I just chose to do it a different way. So what you basically do is:, pull out the lower cushion, leaving the springs and set it aside in your hanger for the moment. If it is like mine, you will have to remove the rods that hold the cushion down to the floor on front and back. These rods are the only thing you can get rid of in the back of your hanger closet. Unscrew the lower hinges from your seat back and take the seat back out. Replace your bolts and nuts with same size pin and a cotter key. Once you put a pin and cotter key in, the removal is faster than the first time you use a wrench. you may have to find an angled wrench to get the self locking nuts off. The two upper brackets on the seat back have an inner and outer screw that screws into the seat back. Remove the outer one from each and push the brackets down so they are out of the way hidden behind the cushion Now, take your seat back, pull it forward and out a little and lay it flat on the lower seat springs as if you folded the seatback forward and down Now take your lower cushion and lay it width wise behind the seat back in your cargo space making the cargo space and the folded seatback all level, The ;over seat cushion will fold up a little on one side because its a little too wide but not that much Now I took a pet/scotch carded blanket that matches my carpet and had it seemed to match the shape of my carpet with the edges going up the side of the bulkhead about 4 inches. My wife also stitched in some velcro in so the blanket stayed staionary (or you can use a piece of carpet you cut/ordered) and lay on top of everything to pretty it up and make it look even. I have the fast clip in/out seat belts that attach to the bolts so I didn't need to unscrew my seat belts. However, I don't take them out. I just let them lay underneath the seat back on the metal. You can probably pull them up and also use them as cargo holders as someone has mentioned When you need the seat, pull the lower seat pad out and set it aside. Pull the seat back out and attach the lower hinges with the pins and cotter keys Swing the brackets out of the seat back and run a pin and cotter key through the bracket and seat post hole that’s already welded to the airplane as before Attach seat belts to pins as before (my seat belts are clips so they clip right onto the seat hinge pins) Put seat cushion back on Putting the seat back up takes me about 20 minutes Seats-1.pdf

Jugs, let me know but I thought I PM'd you a PDF on rear seat fold down conversion and the modifications I eventually made to the PDF process. Let me know if you didn't get it, but pretty painless. I now get a full grown German shepherd and a chow in the back plus a couple bags for my wife and I. Or a full Tri-bike plus race wheels minus the dogs. I also keep all rear seat equipment in the plane so I can convert to carry 3+ pax if I am on a cross country in addition to no weight and balance changes.

Exactly! You're on the right track, sorry its a little painful. Buying process should be a little stressful but enjoyable as well. You definitely have leverage now with the gear up IRT negotiating the price. In addition, it hopefully humbled your broker to work a little more for you if says he wasn't aware. I originally walked away from all gear up airplanes but then when I found mine that had in 92 gear up, my broker and I tore through the logbooks looking at who, when and how they did the repairs. Since then it went through an additional overhaul at TBO in 2009. Not knowing what your contract says, when you re-negotiate, if you don't already, I strongly suggest that the final purchase decision rests with you after a test flight. Either flown by you if you are in the area or find someone in the area on your own with Mooney experience (pref a CFI) who can take the thing up and ring it out for you. For me, in reference to the gear up, I wanted to make sure the airplane flew strait, cruise numbers were close to advertised, the turbo worked at altitude, at slow airspeed the aircraft handled appropriately without any pre-mature stall. In addition to all avionics working as advertised. The test flight also came after I did an annual at the pre-buy. Since I paid for the annual the seller know I was serious and didn't mind me wanting to do a test flight. Also, if something had come up I knew I still might have to walk away if we couldn't come to terms.

Agree with Bennett. you just haven't found the right guy yet. Sure there are a lot of untrustworthy brokers out there like in any business. I pretty much went through the same thing as Bennett with my broker Greg Hermans here on the east coast. Each time we walked away from an airplane (3 x pre-buys) I was glad I had someone on my side. If you hired him, he should be working for you. You already have a pretty good list of honest brokers mentioned in this thread and you can probably search for more. I wouldn't be to worried about finding one that has an inventory of aircraft. Just find a guy that's going to be your advocate and you fell comfortable with. As much as I what I know now about the purchase process I still don't think I would go in it alone if I decide to move onto another aircraft. It's your money (and essential your life) on the line, you want someone that puts his reputation on the line.

Thanks Robert! Just signed up also.

Yea, really wasn't talking about Navy tires.....you kind of missed the point..... just highlighting on past experience what my own personal tolerance has developed to on how I view what I would personally do in the situation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I probably needed to add a little more of my mechanics discussion which I agree with....retreads probably great for fixed gear but think about it for a retract......if the tread starts to come a part on your next takeoff roll....the tire will most likely swell a little in that already confined wheel well space thus possibly not extending....us mooney guys that force the gear down may have a better chance than a free falling gear airplane but why test it....and during your pre-flight how many of us really get down on our bellies and trace the outline of each of our treads on all three both sides...an behind the speed mod doors.....again my opinion, a solid reputable new tire gives me one less thing to worry about now while I am waiting for "that guy" To get away from the pump..... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I felt I needed to chime in here because I believe the universe works in ways we can't understand.....I just swapped out a Desser retread when I walked into my hanger Monday and saw my left main mount at parade rest....I also noticed the day prior when I took off from Florida to va beach my takeoff roll was exceptionally longer than usual....no noticeable difference in tire pressure on pre flight. What had happened was the inside of the retread had created an internal bubble that was rubbing against my tube. Little pull left on landing that day but thought it was the 20-30 wind gusts hitting the stab....after my mech and I pulled the tire Monday we found the bubble on the inside that created a hole in the tube with the friction due to the retread coming apart underneath the retread itself. Thus creating a "slow" (thank god) leak and not a deflate which would have been a different story coming back from Florida. My humble opinion being this my 2nd airplane ownership and 25 years of Navy flying and handful of emergencies....don't skimp on anything airframe or engine maintenance related....not annuals, overhauls, etc. if you think you want to save a little on this next annual, tire or found a "reasonable" prop overhaul to have some money left over for that nice GX/S - whatever upgrade then your thought process is all wrong......just my opinion......standing by for arrow.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

During my pre-buy and first year of ownership this was one of my issues I know I was going to have to deal with as well. I was able to find the the right fasteners for the specific ones that kept popping out by calling LAZAR and they put a few in a ziplock and sent them to me so I had them on the road if I needed....which I did...and definitely due to worn out cowling fiberglass. So in an effort to not have to call LAZAR and have them keep my tab open to send me reoccurring fasteners every 60 days I elected to get a complete fastener kit from AEROSPACE (LAZAR has them also) and at my last annual have my mech repair and reinforce my cowling fiberglass (kind of like a face lift...but not really). He has a gentleman thats kind of an artist at it. Now it looks like it rolled off the showroom in addition to not have to worrying about replacing one when you're on the road is kind of a luxury. You're probably eventually going to have to have your fiberglass repaired.

Brett, Rocker is spot on. I'd also add that even your initial contract with agreed price based on a pre-buy AND a test flight also leave room for an amended contract based on findings. As an example, my purchase contract was amended 3 times and the price negotiated twice based on what we found during the initial purchase inspection and the results of my test flight. Also, my airplane was 6 months from annual but since I started feeling good about the airplane and good about the guy i chose for the pre-buy I decided to start my ownership with a fresh annual which was my responsibility to pay for. I would say that if you are going into pre-buy with an airplane out of annual or annual due that month then you have a lot of negotiating room since if you walk away the owner still/should have to do an annual if he wants to get it sold.

Yep, same here, always out of the tube on the belly post flight and never any on the hanger floor. but no issues with engine as evidenced by my last two analysis or engine inspection at annual. My MB likes 6.5 quarts, anything higher and there is always a little more, anything less than 6 and still a little. It may look like a lot but I add 1qt about 15 to 18 hours so no real actual loss. My mooney mech says kind of normal for the continental.

As Always Don, you have the best answers. Thanks! That gives me a logical troubleshooting process to step through when I get home.

Hello Everyone, Have an O2 leak in my built in system on my 1980 M20K that maybe someone has experienced or could help me isolate for when I get back to the states. Here is what I have been able to troubleshoot thus far: 1. Post cross country trip 1 - With main O2 handle in off position and no O2 hoses installed I lose about 300PSI over a 3 to 4 day weekend. I did pull off the tail cone access panel and ensured the bottle on/off lever connected to the control cable was in the full closed position. The cable also had some trouble initially opening and closing the valve so I sprayed some silicon lubricant on it. The on off handle moves the valve a lot easier now and like i mentioned it does seem to close the valve all the way. 2. Return from cross country trip 2 - I decided after landing to keep the main control lever in the on position and keep my two O2 hoses installed but with the individual hose nozzles turned off for each one. I went out to the hanger a couple days after and noticed I barely lost about 100 PSI, so a little loss but not as much with main handle in off position. My initial thought is that with the handle closed the path of least resistance is heading out towards the external O2 refill connection where I fill from outside the airplane. Anyone else have any thoughts or recommendations. Bottle is hydro tested and good until 2017.

Royski, I missed typed my original post. My brakes are also 100 series like yours. Correct, there is no info or downloadable ICA or users guide on the web site. However, give Dan a call in the parts section at Precise Flight, also give him your serial number if you have it, he can send you the a copy of the original bill of sale and who it was to if you want it for your logbook entry. Also, if you PM me I can send you a copy of the ICA guidelines Dan sent for our model speed brakes if you want to pull them and do the recommended PM.

Also had the same issue with my right one the last few months. I recommend before you do anything like applying grease or going right after the springs that you first find out what series speed brakes you have and give a call to Precise Flight for a copy of the ICA (Inspection for Continued Airworthiness) for your model of speed brakes. Then find out the last time your brakes were inspected in accordance with the ICA. If electric your's are probably 2000 series. As an example, mine were 1000 series. I called Precise Flight and gave them my serial numbers. If the numbers aren't in your logbook you can see the number on the bottom of the speed brake box by pulling the access panel underneath the wing. You'll need a flashlight. I called Precise Flight, Dan was able to look up when and to who my brakes were sold and installed and then emailed me the ICA. My mechanic and I pulled them for the annual this month and long story short, cleaned out an obscene amount of dirt and grime from the vacuum tubes. Reinstalled and they work like brand new, they deploy evenly, smoothly and "lightening quick" whether at 120 knots or 175ktas at 15000ft. No new springs or grease required. Also, be careful on what you use for lube, when I originaly researched my issue I think I found that Precise Flight recommends a specific lube.......It's amazing how equipment works when it is inspected and maintained according to the original manufacturing design.....

HI Matt and welcome to the forum and your first Mooney to be. You are going to find a lot of great guys here with a lot of great advice. I felt inclined to reply to your post because I was in your same shoes a year ago. I closed on my first Mooney last June and just went through my first annual. I am sure you are going to get plenty of advice from you post but I just wanted to add my two+ cents from just recently going through what you did and also reflecting on my 1st year of ownership and my first annual. So here you go: 1. I also spent many many many hours and about 4 years looking through Controller, Trade a plane, etc and actually walked away from 4 pre-buys. So my comment here is....you don't know ANYTHING about an airplane until you find a reputable pre-purchase mechanic to go down this road with you. (preferably a Mooney Service Center. Another shop is acceptable but do some research to find out how reputable they are with Mooneys...again, depending on where you want the pre-buy there are plenty of folks here that can give you recommendations and probably help coordinate delivery). Bottom line - until someone who can read between the lines of logbooks and knows what he is looking for when he starts to tear it down you don't know what you are getting. 2. The "partial engine failure" would have me a little nervous and may also account for the what seems to be a "little low sale price" for an airplane with 180 hours on engine/prop, new paint, etc. Not to say this is bad but will all depend on exactly "what happened" and who repaired it and how it was repaired. For example, I walked away from all gear up landing aircraft I saw. However, what sold me on my purchase (gear up in 1989) was the fact that all repairs were made by Dugosh and there were about 8 Dugosh and Maxwell annuals throughout the last 12 years of my planes history. In addition the engine the Trophy 262 overhaul with solid logbooks since. Some gear ups and prop strikes may have a field overhaul or "partial overhaul" and I wold be skeptical and want to see all oil analysis since the overhaul. Thats also what I had in my logbooks 3. TSIO 360 GB - not the "best" engine that came out with the original turbo. If you can find an LB with Intercooler and Merlin waste gate I think from what I have heard and researched you will have a lot less issues and be a little happier when you start to hit 800 to 1000 hours. With the GB, the pilot really has to watch his parameters to make sure he hits TBO without a top overhaul. If you can find a 231 with a MB Trophy conversion even better because now you have a Mooney 252 from the firewall forward which, in my opinion, is one of the best Mooneys made for the money on the current market. But again, my opinion and I am sure there are a lot others out there. 4. Engine compressions on the Continental are relatively lower than the Lycoming. They don't look to bad and they look pretty uniform. But again, having a knowledgable mechanic who knows how to calibrate the compression tool before the readings will give you the accurate picture. 5. Hard landing - Mooney's are tough but again, I would find out the story and what was damaged and who repaired it. 6. Definitely ask about any wing tank reseals. Especially before or since the repaint. A new pant job is great but I found that a new paint job followed by going on the market for sale a year or two after means there maybe a story somewhere in there. 7. Corrosion - most people here would walk away as a Mooney with a corrosion history is not good. May also tie into the paint story. But again, maybe fine depending on who did the repairs (Wilmer?) and exactly what they did. Also, after the corrosion repair I would probably want to see some Mooney Service center annuals, Dugosh, Maxwell, etc. I know I kind of rambled but these were all the things I either ran into or had passed down to me the 3 years I was looking. Dan Howard aircraft sales from what I hear does have a pretty good reputation but remember in the end - its just business. My recommendation is be patient, take your time, don't get drawn off on pretty paint jobs and super low engine or airframe times. Although all these things are great, an airplane with a 180 engine hours since a 2013 annual is much better than 180 hours from a 2009 overhaul. Each airplane has a story and it takes some digging to find out what it is. In the end, the last two years I was looking I gratefully ran into a broker I got to know and trust who helped me through the process. What resulted is now I have had an airplane with no surprises my first year of ownership and walked out of my first annual from a Mooney Service Center way under budget

When doing my pre-buy last year I had Southern Avionics due some work. Not quite southern Florida but they are located at Mobile Downtown airport in Mobile, Al. Also, the previous owner had them do work on my plan as well. Since I was in Virginia at the time I had to deal with them over the phone and I felt very confident with them. They also stand behind all their work.

I actually did get a full binder of all the STC's, 262 mod, single belly, shading fuel, vacuum system, etc but did not see the brakes. I did call previous owner who owns a few flight schools in Florida but he could not recall anything he did not give me and the brakes were there when he bought it ten + years ago.

Thanks guys. Yes I also thought it was part of the 262 Trophy STC as well with the single piece belly, alternators, etc but they are not. Heard back from Mooney and not listed as original equipment, FYI in case you did't already know speed brakes did not become original equipment on the K until 1984. Talking to precise flight now and have the STC number just trying to track who did it. 262 mod was done by original MM ( ) back in the early days mod.

Hello Gents, Just making sure I am covering all my research bases. My 20K 231/262 Trophy is going in for an annual on the 29th and my mechanic and I sat down to go through AD's, gameplan, etc. Could not find an STC or ref for my speed brakes and also not listed in POH in the equipment list. I dropped a line to the Mooney folks with my a/c serial number to see if it is referenced as original equipment as well as contacted the Mod Squad for any 262 Trophy info from when it was done. I am currently in Thailand and also don't have logbooks in front of me so this is more of just throwing a question out there to help me when i get back. Thanks.

Just referenced the Mooney web site again to make sure but they also list a Mooney Service Center in Lynchburg (KLYH). I was going to do an annual there eventually but for now I am pretty comfortable with my mechanic in Virginia Beach VIRGINIA AVIATION Jason Moorefield (Maintenance) Tonya Gibson (Parts) PO Box 4209 970 Airport Road Lynchburg, VA 24502 434-237-8434 / 434-237-8427 vaavionics@aol.com / tonya@virginiaaviation.com www.virginiaaviation.com www.virginiaaviation.com

Just a thought....how about a removable flag/placard (similar to pitot tube flag and intake plug flags) that slides in the mechanical tow hole and says something like "warning, when towing keep nose wheel between red marks". And has to be removed by the line crew prior to connecting to a manual tow bar? p.s....Trademark..all rights reserved...blah blah blah...just kidding.....