DXB

Glad to hear your friend is ok. Hopefully the fence and blueberries have enough give to them so as not to kill anyone. In this case there was a concrete wall created to mount the antennas on top rather than the collapsible supports standardly used for these installations. South Korea ain't some 3rd world country so they probably could have afforded to do it right. It may have been just laziness/expediency.

The decision to mount the localizer antennas on a tall barrier is only one of many utterly baffling elements to this tragedy.

The letters from Vector threatening liens have been described online, but I've as yet to see one. Vector's CEO stated they have never actually placed a lien (in a post now deleted) without refuting that they sent letters threatening liens. It would be great to understand the terms of the contracts, how they address instances when bills aren't paid, and the ability to implement the terms of contracts in context of various state laws. I'm no lawyer, but i suspect digging into these minutiae will help put up some guard rails against ravenous for-profit entities enticing more airports into collecting landing fees every time your wheels touch asphalt somewhere.

If Vector knowingly lacks standing to get a lien, aren't their threats to do so criminal extortion? I suspect the airport itself can get a lien under at least some circumstances, with laws varying by state (I claim no expertise here). The wording of Vector's threatening letters seems to be pivotal. I hope some folks saved them and will make them public.

Yes presumably they were billed erroneously as landings, likely as a result of inaccuracy of their newer algorithms that incorporate ads-b data. If you don't pay their bills, you get threats of liens against your plane from them by mail. It's a hollow threat. Any such lien would have to be initiated by the airport, and even then the legality seems murky (no legal expertise claimed on this end). A collection agency would be similarly toothless here, since there's no line of credit based on an SSN. I think in large part bills through Vector could be ignored with very little exposure.

Welcome @Mooney Newb. Tons of great guidance have been given here already from experts like @cliffy and others. I was in your precise shoes in 2014, when I bought my C model. Folks here gave me invaluable guidance back then and have continued to do so over the years, and it's been a great (albeit expensive) journey. I would only add that the learning curve for aircraft ownership and maintenance is fairly steep for the newb, and there will be many details you will need to learn about and process before making safe and resource-efficient decisions. Adding the wood wing of the A model into the mix is more than I would personally want to take on in your shoes - that may be better left up to the experienced enthusiast with passion for preservation of a flying historic relic. The skills to evaluate, maintain, and repair that portion of the airframe are rare these days, and it will be tougher to get questions and concerns answered accurately as they arise. There was good reason for Mooney to go to an all metal design in the M20B, despite the superior performance characteristics of the smooth wood surface. However, if you do want to take on this added challenge, best of luck to you. I do hope someone buys this wood wing bird and keeps it going. BTW if do you spend 3x as much, please spend it on a Vintage Mooney, not a Warrior or trainer Cessna! You will be well-rewarded for the extra initial time an effort to transition into a vastly superior aircraft in almost every respect. Note, the cost of ownership will soon dwarf the initial purchase price, no matter which of these options you go with....

multiple pilots overflying vector fields reported it happening to them on the related fb group - and got no response from vector when they tried to challenge it

Appropriate user fees for part 91 light aircraft at various airports are a legit debate, which I will side step for the moment. Automated devices to collect such fees, similar to toll roads, may also be reasonable. However, private enterprise both promoting and abbetting aggressive expansion of these fees should be fought by GA pilots at every turn. Use of ads-b data for such collection, including careless and erroneous attempts at collection, deserve strong pushback, as do lack of complete transparency in fee structures - aviation is notorious for that one (though not as bad as my own industry- healthcare).

The article I linked mentioned it - it's a market that could generate revenue quickly if there's a private channel for such investments at existing fields. I'm not sure it's happening yet, but clearly the demand is there.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that systems like those now being aggressively expanded by Vector lay the groundwork for increasing monetization and privatization of public use fields, which I think should be viewed as public infrastructure rather than profit centers. The influx of private equity investment into aviation hasn't necessarily yielded this outcome yet, but it is certainly a major risk going forward. That kind of money in after big returns on investment in a few years - any maintenance and improvement in the infrastructure is a lucky byproduct, not a metric of success. Of course it can have positive effects for us too - e.g. addressing the major crunch in hangar space across the country. https://avbizjournal.com/?s=private+equity

I thought it was worth further identifying those 17 fields for fixed wing aircraft currently using Vector to bill <6000lb MTOW planes. Note, I'm not sure the list below is comprehensive - one on the original list was a heliport, which I left off the list below. But KISM needed to be added to the list - they recently started billing us $3 per 1000lbs on top of all FBO fees to land there (and in some cases merely to transit the delta or do a low pass per report). I'm also not sure all deserve to be boycotted (e.g. as @EricJSAD Safford AZ reportedly waives all fees with any gas purchase, even 1 gallon). Regardless, unlikely to use some of them anyway (e.g. San Antonio International). However, some are exorbitant (e.g. Montauk MTP) - $45 landing for a Mooney, $100 overnight, at a small field with no services, albeit in a very nice place. ISM Kissimmee Gateway Airport, Kissimmee, FL 5C1 Boerne Stage Airfield, San Antonio, TX ACY Atlantic City Airport, Atlantic City, NJ AGC Allegheny Co. Airport, Pittsburgh, PA ASE Aspen Airport, Aspen CO BDR Bridgeport-Sikorsky Airport, Bridgeport, CT BED Hanscom Field, Bedford, MA DAL Love Field, Dallas, TX HWV Brookhaven Airport, Suffolk Co, NY ISP Long Island MacArthur Airport, Islip, NY JPX East Hampton Airport, East Hampton, NY MTP Montauk Airport, Montauk, NY RYY Cobb Co. Airport, Atlanta, GA SAD Safford Regional Airport, Safford, AZ SAT San Antonio International, San Antonio, TX SMO Santa Monica Airport, Santa Monica, CA TOA Zamperini Field, Los Angeles, CA

It would be good to exert influence on these inevitable determinations, particularly in relation to use of ads-b data well outside the scope of its stated purpose, through all legal channels. Otherwise, I can assure you we will not like the outcomes....

I have no opinion about the legality, but it's certainly happening: https://generalaviationnews.com/2024/09/07/florida-airports-prepare-to-impose-landing-fees/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR29UBz49FdS8dE8wE52i_Gt6PdqfDN6kFTZs8i4OLMTHdAO3jgSrxmKXOU_aem_E_Z3vEt_d7fwGvKSAn_Y9w I think AOPA showed up to the city council meeting about this one but to no avail: https://www.aroundosceola.com/news/kissimmees-airport-start-charging-landing-fees-nov-1

In related news, other abuses of ads-b data are already well underway: (1) Feeding data to clients for "noise abatement investigation" and various other uses....This company collaborates with Vector Aircraft Systems and probably feeds them some of the bogus data used to bill aircraft owners. https://virtower.com/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1ci_MrzpIAmExGNZlh8dbU3N9_NloOZKTEwpl0g76mfbtIpqHf9guy-cE_aem_PbnF3U4euuclz6ZE92ST1w (2) Generating estimates of your carbon footprint from ads-b data, then trying to sell you offsets that you buy voluntarily as "a responsible citizen." You can plug in your tail number and get an "estimate" for your bird. https://climate.aero/en/c/about-us/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR03w8WKDlAh4BIDKUOMxf-jfZOj1yZF4j_Wbb_w267FIg1hGnlnoBKYixg_aem_ssao-VjBHzE-Mc1VAso3QA We all know where this is going. I would consider myself an environmentalist, but #2 makes me want to run my mixture full rich at all times.

They do send out notices threatening liens. Their CEO then claimed on a fb group that they have never actually placed a lien. One might then simply throw away their bill? They don't sound responsive when folks receive erroneous charges (e.g. for a low approach or simply flying over the field). I do wonder if any airports have used the data to place liens - perhaps not if you believe their claim of a 99.6% collection rate.

Speaking on behalf of every American GA pilot , we are not accustomed to it in the US and are enthusiastic about not becoming accustomed to it.

It's worth mentioning the growing backlash against Vector Airport Systems (https://www.vector-us.com/planepass) in various corners of the internet. For instance, a new and rapidly expanding Facebook group dedicated to it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1106100984246858 A few bullet points: - Vector has been collecting landing fees at certain airports for some time using cameras that capture your tail number by sending a bill in the mail to the address for the registration - If you don't pay, you'll get letters from them threatening a Iien against your aircraft. - Whether liens have actually happened and they have real legal ability to obtain them is unclear to me (I have zero legal expertise here). - Regardless, they market 99+% collection rate in promoting their service to airports, so people are sufficiently intimidated into paying up. - They are increasingly using ads-b data to supplement their data gathering. - Apparently they access unfiltered ads-b data from the FAA that identifies folks who enroll in the PIA program (the level of privacy above LADD). - Folks have gotten bills based on ads-b data without ever touching wheels at the field (e.g. low approaches) or simply by transiting the airspace above. - The number of airports with these systems is rapidly growing - it's an appealing revenue engine for airport managers, municipalities, etc. including for smaller/nontowered fields that have enough operations to make it worth the expense of the company installing their systems. This makes is so much easier for fields where it was previously impractical to impose landing fees to rake in new revenue. - When I emailed Vector a while back asking for a list of airports using their systems, I got a response requesting my company information and stating they would consider the request if I'm willing to sign an NDA - Someone on the related fb group managed to bypass that nonsense and come up with a fairly current list of the 90+ fields currently using them (pasted below). - I've landed at many fields on this list but only gotten a bill from them once (East Hampton). Some fields are newly added, but many simply don't collect for planes under 6000 lb MTOW Here’s the list sorted by state in alphabetical order: Alabama (AL) • TCL: Tuscaloosa National Airport Arizona (AZ) • GEU: Glendale Regional Airport • IFP: Laughlin Bullhead International • SAD: Safford Regional Airport Arkansas (AR) • TXK: Texarkana Rgnl-Webb Fld California (CA) • APC: Napa County • BFL: Meadows Field Airport • CMA: Camarillo • HAF: Half Moon Bay • OXR: Oxnard • SBA: Santa Barbara Muni • SBD: San Bernardino Intl • SBP: San Luis County Rgnl • SMO: Santa Monica Muni • SQL: San Carlos • STS: Charles M Schulz - Sonoma County • TOA: Torrance Municipal Airport • TRK: Truckee-Tahoe Colorado (CO) • ASE: Aspen-Pitkin County/Sardy Fld • CEZ: Cortez Municipal Airport • COS: Colorado Springs Airport • DRO: Durango-La Plata County Airport • EGE: Eagle County Regional Airport • HDN: Yampa Valley Regional • RIL: Rifle Garfield County Airport Connecticut (CT) • BDR: Igor I Sikorsky Meml • HVN: Tweed - New Haven Airport Delaware (DE) • ILG: New Castle Florida (FL) • APF: Naples Muni • DT1: Downtown Fort Lauderdale • FPR: Treasure Coast Intl • ISM: Kissimmee Gateway Airport • SUA: Witham Fld • SFB: Orlando Sanford Intl • TLH: Tallahassee Intl Georgia (GA) • RYY: Cobb County Intl-Mccollum Fld Idaho (ID) • COE: Coeur D’Alene - Pappy Boyington • DIJ: Driggs-Reed Meml • MYL: McCall Municipal Airport • SUN: Friedman Meml Massachusetts (MA) • BAF: Westfield-Barnes Regional Airport • BED: Lawrence G Hanscom Fld • HYA: Cape Cod Gateway • LWM: Lawrence Municipal Airport • MVY: Martha’s Vineyard • PSF: Pittsfield Municipal Airport • PVC: Provincetown Muni Maine (ME) • BHB: Hancock County - Bar Harbor • PWM: Portland Intl Jetport Michigan (MI) • AZO: Kalamazoo Battle Creek Intl. Airport • BFA: Boyne Mountain • BTL: Battle Creek Exec At Kellogg Fld • FKS: Frankfort Down Memorial Field • PTK: Oakland County International Minnesota (MN) (No airports in the list) Montana (MT) • BZN: Bozeman Yellow International • GPI: Glacier Park Intl • HLN: Helena Rgnl • LVM: Mission Field Airport • MSO: Missoula Intl New Hampshire (NH) (No airports in the list) New Jersey (NJ) • ACY: Atlantic City New Mexico (NM) • SAF: Santa Fe Regional Airport New York (NY) • 87N: Southampton • HTO: East Hampton • HWV: Brookhaven • ISP: Long Island Mac Arthur • MTP: Montauk Nevada (NV) • BVU: Boulder City Municipal Airport Ohio (OH) • I74: Grimes Field • LUK: Lunken Field • TOL: Eugene F Kranz Toledo Express Oklahoma (OK) • OUN: Max Westheimer Oregon (OR) • AST: Warrenton-Astoria Regional Airport • MFR: Rogue Valley Intl - Medford Pennsylvania (PA) • AGC: Allegheny County South Dakota (SD) • ATY: Watertown Regional Airport • RAP: Rapid City Regional Airport Texas (TX) • 5C1: Boerne Stage Airfield • ACT: Waco Regional Airport • BRO: Brownsville South Padre Island • CRP: Corpus Christi Intl • DAL: Dallas Love Field • LRD: Laredo Intl • MAF: Midland Air & Space Port • MDD: Midland Airpark • SAT: San Antonio International Airport Utah (UT) • BTF: Skypark Airport • HCR: Heber Valley Airport • OGD: Ogden-Hinckley • PVU: Provo Municipal Airport • SGU: St. George Regional Airport • UT9: West Desert Airpark Vermont (VT) • BTV: Burlington Intl Washington (WA) • BFI: Boeing Fld/King County Intl • CLM: William R Fairchild Airport • OKH: DeLaurentis Airport West Virginia (WV) • MGW: Morgantown Municipal Airport Canada • CYTZ: Billy Bishop

That seems high? This coming year I'm paying $1730 with 100k hull on an M20C with Global Aerospace. I'm a 51 year old 1430hr SEL private pilot with IR, with 90% of my time in that particular plane. Global ends up being the cheapest for most years when I get quotes, though occasionally I've used another company - e.g. Old Republic in the coming year. There's some brokers out there who focus on our segment of the insurance market and do a good job. @Parker_Woodruff sometimes hangs out here and is definitely one of them - he's been helpful to me the last few years in limiting impact of the recent rapid rise in costs.

I just emailed them myself based on guidance from multiple folks above - they will be puzzled by the sudden deluge of dipstick-related inquiries Just curious, are the marks on yours evenly spaced on your stick or more like the picture in the first post?

Definitely gonna do that when I change when I change the oil for the first time - don’t have enough mineral oil on hand to empty and refill during the break in period

So... my engine overhauler thinks I'm crazy. I am not. They definitely sent the engine back with a differently marked dipstick. Upon further research, I believe the correct part numbers are in this parts catalog: https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/attachments/O-360-A%2520Parts%2520Catalog%2520PC-306-1.pdf On page 11, it lists three possible oil dipsticks for the O-360-A1D engine (LW14769, LW14780, and LW14768). I am guessing that the 3 different dipsticks listed for the engine on page 11 match the 3 different possible filler tube lengths listed above it (75735, 75767, and 75736). I am not sure what filler tube I have; however, if the engine has the same sump, the spacing between marks for all 3 possible dipsticks would be the same, and the stick I have now has markedly different spacing. I interpret this as meaning it is for an engine with a different sump geometry. Unfortunately there's not a part number stamped on my current dipstick to prove their error. So... Could anyone with an O-360-A1D post pix of their dipsticks showing the markings so I can keep after the shop to make this right?

That does seem to be key... I'll look next time in hangar whether it has a part number on it. The correct one for my engine seems to be LW-14758. I found a pic of one on Ebay (below), which seems to have the more evenly spaced marks that I recall from my old one. I wonder if the one they gave me is off an IO-360 similar to @Ragsf15e's. I'm not inclined to go on the war path with the engine shop over a dipstick error, but it is a little disconcerting!

I got my O-360-A1D back from overhaul at a reputable shop, and I am breaking it in. The dipstick is clearly different from my old one - the new spacing between 8 and 6 quarts is wider, and the spacing between 6 and 4 quarts is MUCH narrower than previously. I normally fill to 6 qt and add a quart when it gets to 5, but that will be tricky to do accurately now. I’m thinking of filling it to 7quarts just to make monitoring easier. Is it normal to mark the dipstick in a custom manner upon overhaul?? If so I’m very surprised it would change so much - it’s the same sump as before. Any insights are appreciated. I’ll check the stick by adding a quart at a time when I do the first oil change at 25 hours.

Corrosion rate is a function of RELATIVE humidity, not how much total water the air holds. If you heat the engine uniformly in the winter leave a path for moisture to escape, the relative humidity of the air inside the engine will go down significantly, leading surfaces to stay dry (think of your skin getting dry when you run the heater at home in the winter). Of course the warmer temperature will increase the corrosion rate at a given relative humidity; however, if you keep humidity below ~60pct, the corrosion rate is quite low at any temperature.

Agree that turning it on and off daily is a bad idea. However, assuming you have a heater with separate elements for the sump and each cylinder, it's fine to leave it on continuously. Also leave the dipstick unscrewed to let moisture escape. You should be ok as long as you keep the entire engine above the dew point continuously.