Offer/Buying Etiquette

[Buster1]

When making an offer on a Mooney (or any plane for that matter), what, if any rules or "etiquette" are there?  Do you offer after the pre-purchase inspection, or before?  Do you offer 10% below the listed price or is that a slap in the face?  Can you GET the plane less than the listed price?

[knute]

I would offer what you are willing to spend.  On the other hand, I would expect as a seller to have a firm offer before submitting the plane to a customer-specified pre-buy.  When I bought my Mooney, I did a prebuy with contingencies (actually, it went through an annual, so it was anything but a cursory inspection) with an agreement that if the items that were discovered needing attention exceeded a specific amount, I could either walk away from the deal or we would negotiate a mutually acceptable price concession.

Just my opinion, but I hope that helps!

-Knute

[GeorgePerry]

This thread deals with many of your questions.  Some of it is vintage mooney specific but the parts about prebuy's etc should be useful.  If you haven't already read it, the first post should help out

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=2&threadid=9

As for the etiquette question...I suppose it's like any other form of negotiation.  If both parties feel they've given alittle then both feel a sense of perceived value.  The best way to determine price is to spec the plane out.  Vref or other pricing tools offer good "ball park" numbers.  Also a good way to determine a planes value is do what real estate agents do, compare to Comps.  Browse the classifieds to get a good idea of what is out there and what people want for their planes.  If your interested in a particular N#, there's no harm in asking the seller what the no haggle bottom line price is (assuming a no-dings pre buy) and see what they say.  If the number is too high, say no thanks and walk.  If it’s reasonable you’ve got a good place to start.  In this market if the seller “wants” to sell they’ll make the price attractive. 

OBTW anyone interested in my mooney it’s for sale for $600K

 

[Ned Gravel]

Buster:

In 2004, I looked at eight Mooneys. Of those eight, I had six actually inspected - only one of which was looked at here in Ottawa.  I had one inspected by a shop in each of: Ottawa, Ontario; Sprinkbank, Alberta; Charlotte, NC; Joplin, MO; Mobile, AL; and Waterloo, Ontario.  All inspections were at my cost, ranging from $500 to $800 each, with the agreement of the vendor.  I picked the shop (all local) and they delivered the plane for inspection.  Every one of these inspections saved me from a $50,000 mistake. 

Not one of these inspections resulted in a list of airworthiness issues totalling less than $14,000 to fix. 

Only the owner of the E model that was inspected in Waterloo agreed to cover the costs of needed repairs, and we made the deal.  By the time the aircraft rolled out of the shop two months later (with annual done) I had put in about $7,000 in other things, including a tank reseal, new style gear pucks, and some small panel adjustements.

Here was my thinking.  That shop owner works for me.  They are my eyes on the aircraft and my instructions to them were to "go to town."  They did.  The reports were concise and informative.  They found prop strikes not properly repaired, corrosion in the wings and on the steel frame, leaking tanks, holes in all kinds of hoses and tubing, tail feathers out of rig, and a whole host of other issues.

My search was successful.   I got three things out of this work. 

1.  A great Mooney that meets my needs, at a price I could affort

2.  A much better understanding of Mooneys (at least E models), and

3.  A great MSC owner (who also flies an E model of his own) who takes very good care of mine.

All round win in my opinion.

Secret to success?   Find a good shop, pay them, and let them "go to town."  They will work hard for you and help keep you from making an expensive mistake.

Just my 2 cents....

 

 

[FlyDave]

One other aspect of the pricing question is un-realistic sellers. Many owners believe they should get <<almost>> what they have into an aircraft. This is a buyers market. I see airplanes listed for easily $20K more than they should be in this market. Many planes have been on the market for more than 6 months, some, more than 1 year.

Get a feel for what people are asking and watch how long some planes stay on the market. That will give you a basic idea of what people are taking for planes. Each plane has different issues (they all have some) and you never know what they are until you get the pre-buy. As everyone else here has said, get a pre-buy from a reputable shop. There aren't any guarantees but your odds of getting what you think you're getting increase dramatically.

Good luck and fly safe!!!

[lahso]

I bought mine directly from an owner and did not use a broker, so my experience may be different than others. After viewing, then flying, the aircraft, I called the owner and spoke with him. Having looked at the market for a year, I had a good idea of pricing and value, and therefore gave the seller his asking price. The seller in turn paid for all pre-purchase inspections and airworthiness details. The other stuff we negotiated over the phone until both were satisfied. Then, we backed it in writing via e-mails and worked with an escrow service. Good luck, Buster and enjoy the ride...