Mechanic/shop recommendations; minimalist or Savvy-friendly?

[dkkim73]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

@dkkim73

the cylinder model should be easy to tell, just by looking at it…

the cooling fins for the G are very uniform… like most engines we ever see…

the cooling fins for the N are alternating short, long, short, long…

Not a really good description, but that is what came to mind…

 

That's actually a great description. Is this what you mean by alternating? See Left forward cylinder. This was from the demo flight. 

[carusoam]

10 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

That's actually a great description. Is this what you mean by alternating? See Left forward cylinder. This was from the demo flight. 

I’m pretty sure that is THE sign of an N cylinder…

Let’s see if @LANCECASPER is around…

Lance has an Acclaim… and can probably ID a G vs. N cylinder….  

best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

DKK’s paint is so mirror finished… the wings disappear into the background!   
 

The TN’d IO550 is a beautiful piece of mechanical art…!

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, carusoam said:

I’m pretty sure that is THE sign of an N cylinder…

Let’s see if @LANCECASPER is around…

Lance has an Acclaim… and can probably ID a G vs. N cylinder….  

best regards,

-a-

The Same cylinder is used on the G engine as the N engine on the TSIO-550 on the Acclaim (TSIO-550-G1 and then after the heater modification it became a -G3)

https://www.airpowerinc.com/658815A3

[dkkim73]

55 minutes ago, carusoam said:

DKK’s paint is so mirror finished… the wings disappear into the background!   
 

The TN’d IO550 is a beautiful piece of mechanical art…!

-a-

It was definitely cleaned up and waxed when I visited to look at it. That said, the paint is original and in great shape! The leading edge might be accentuated by the TKS strips. 

Indeed, the engine arrangement, baffles, plumbing, etc, is very elegant. It's a lot of power and design packed into a small place. Kind of reminds me of the funny Lightning McQueen quote from cars, "I'm a precision instrument of speed and aerodynamics" which is later misquoted by his rusty old truck friend. 

[dkkim73]

52 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

The Same cylinder is used on the G engine as the N engine on the TSIO-550 on the Acclaim (TSIO-550-G1 and then after the heater modification it became a -G3)

https://www.airpowerinc.com/658815A3

The engine is a TSIO-550G(3). I'm a bit fuzzy on whether "N" cylinders go with "N" engines and G with G, etc. 

[carusoam]

I can only offer confusion…. 

I have the O, it was born with a NA IO550g, standard with 280hp, limited by 2500rpm…

At OH time, it was upgraded to 310hp, it got a prop swap, from McCauley to Hartzell TopProp, and is allowed to run 2700 rpm…

The TopProp weighs about 15Lbs more than Mac, and the N cylinders save about two pounds each…

Keeping the WnB details as close as possible, before and after the swap….

I went with the N cylinders…

Over the years… a few of the N cylinders in the field, have developed cracks near the exhaust valve in a thin part of the casting….

there is probably a change in that area of the cylinder to eliminate that cracking issue…?

I have not experienced any cylinder cracks yet….

CHTs in the O, are tightly controlled… I don’t usually fly above 12.5k’…

 

There are a lot of N engines in the cirri… for comparison…

 

I also briefly considered the lighter weight MT four blade, but it was not fully STC’d at the time….

 

We had at least one Acclaim around here that was running 310hp flying out west around CO…

The Acclaim was used to commute between CA and CO…

 

Climbing with 310hp all the way to the FLs would surely be nice… 2kfpm  

 

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, dkkim73 said:

The engine is a TSIO-550G(3). I'm a bit fuzzy on whether "N" cylinders go with "N" engines and G with G, etc. 

The TSIO-550-G and the TSIO-550-N use the same cylinders. https://www.airpowerinc.com/resources?id=4

On these cylinders there are two choices, Steel (https://www.airpowerinc.com/658815A3)   and Nickel Carbide (https://www.airpowerinc.com/resources?id=4)

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

That's actually a great description. Is this what you mean by alternating? See Left forward cylinder. This was from the demo flight. 

That hose that runs from your oil fill tube back to your air/oil separator needs to be replaced (left arrow below). It was once a yellow material like the one you see next to it (right arrow), but the oil "sludge" that fills up that hose affects the pressure in your cylinders and "cokes" them up which causes the compressions to go low. The Tygon (yellow) hoses should really be inspected and cleaned (and I feel replaced) every 100 hours. It's very inexpensive. The black Gates brand hose that runs from the bottom of the air/oil separator down to the pilot's side tailpipe gets clogged also and needs to be replaced or cleaned every 100 hours  (https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-312.pdf). If the Acclaim has been maintained by someone that knows Acclaims these items will have been done regularly.

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, Ryan Mason said:

Hello Folks. I have a Lightspeed sierra headset for sale for $500. 
516-207-1734. Text or call if you’re interested. Thanks 

There's a classified section to list items for sale if you are a supporter.

[dkkim73]

Good news! Here's an abbreviated most recent update:

They lapped exhaust valves #3 and #4 in place, ring flushed each 3x, which addressed the audible blow-by and valve leaks. 

"1st Compression check after initial run complete #1 70/80 #2 70/80 #3 32/80 #4 60/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80.
2nd Compression check after lapping and ring cleaning, COLD engine #1 70/80 #2 70/80 #3 70/80 #4 64/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80.
3rd Compression check after final run-up: HOT engine #1 70/80 #2 70/80 #3 74/80 #4 70/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80.
Borescoped engine and found no evidence of broken rings or any visual cracks, any cylinders. ..."

They also replaced the rotocoil for #3 (thought there was likely a failure to rotate [insert Cool Hand Luke joke]). Oil change, etc. 

So the hoped-for "happy path" of a minimally-invasive approach (endorsed in this case by several Savvy folks and a few others incl. BK) seems to have yielded good results. Meta-bonus is developing a relationship with a pretty solid-seeming local shop at one end of my commute. 

 

The isolated eddy current findings (between the spark plug and injector bosses) do not correspond to any visible defects on inspection, and so the recommendation was to watch. If anyone has a good contact at Continental to bounce the question off, I'm all ears. 

 

To one of @LANCECASPER's points, the down tube from the oil/air separator was checked recently at annual (about 32 hrs ago now). 

Hope this anecdote is useful to someone, 

D

 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, dkkim73 said:

Good news! Here's an abbreviated most recent update:

They lapped exhaust valves #3 and #4 in place, ring flushed each 3x, which addressed the audible blow-by and valve leaks. 

"1st Compression check after initial run complete #1 70/80 #2 70/80 #3 32/80 #4 60/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80.
2nd Compression check after lapping and ring cleaning, COLD engine #1 70/80 #2 70/80 #3 70/80 #4 64/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80.
3rd Compression check after final run-up: HOT engine #1 70/80 #2 70/80 #3 74/80 #4 70/80 #5 74/80 #6 72/80.
Borescoped engine and found no evidence of broken rings or any visual cracks, any cylinders. ..."

They also replaced the rotocoil for #3 (thought there was likely a failure to rotate [insert Cool Hand Luke joke]). Oil change, etc. 

So the hoped-for "happy path" of a minimally-invasive approach (endorsed in this case by several Savvy folks and a few others incl. BK) seems to have yielded good results. Meta-bonus is developing a relationship with a pretty solid-seeming local shop at one end of my commute. 

 

The isolated eddy current findings (between the spark plug and injector bosses) do not correspond to any visible defects on inspection, and so the recommendation was to watch. If anyone has a good contact at Continental to bounce the question off, I'm all ears. 

 

To one of @LANCECASPER's points, the down tube from the oil/air separator was checked recently at annual (about 32 hrs ago now). 

Hope this anecdote is useful to someone, 

D

 

That is so good to hear. I have thought for years that many of the Acclaim cylinders were replaced unnecessarily. Mechanics have been so used to pulling a cylinder as soon as they see low compression.  In some cases cylinders need to be replaced but I'm glad this is getting some traction. Any idea what the cost was for the valve lapping and ring flush?

[dkkim73]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Any idea what the cost was for the valve lapping and ring flush?

It was about $1480 for the lap in place and flush of both cylinders, and replacing rotocoil on one.  About 11 hrs labor. The rotocoil and retainer clip together were less than $50. An oil change becomes necessary, which adds a bit in addition. And I also paid for a couple hours of borescoping and diagnosis as well, which I didn't include in the above total.

If one is an A&P or more proficient/confident in some of these maneuvers, I'll bet the cost could be less, but I feel like I got a pretty darn good deal. Esp. since I was coming for a full 2nd opinion and the prior rec. was pull at least 2 cylinders, proceed as indicated, and replace 3 additional. 

@LANCECASPER to circle back to the hoses, you said that one of the hoses in the picture needed to be replaced (from oil filler to side of oil/air separator). Was this a suggestion, or was the color indicative to you of an incorrect hose? 

The breather tube hose (what I would call the "down tube") was replaced at recent pre-purchase/annual: "Complied with Mooney SB M20-312 Cleaned and inspected crankcase breather tube, replaced hose with new PN 628555-48. " I also always look as far as I can up the port side exhaust stack on pre-flight.

David

 

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

 

@LANCECASPER to circle back to the hoses, you said that one of the hoses in the picture needed to be replaced (from oil filler to side of oil/air separator). Was this a suggestion, or was the color indicative to you of an incorrect hose? 

It was the correct hose (yellow Tygon material) but since it is that dark it very likely should be changed out. I would be surprised if it wasn’t hard and brittle due to the heat. They can be rinsed by removing the hose and pouring mineral spirits through the hose, but once you’ve gone to the trouble of taking the hose off, just cut a new length of Tygon and change it. The service bulletin that was mentioned tells you what diameter of Tygon hose you need.

[dkkim73]

4 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

It was the correct hose (yellow Tygon material) but since it is that dark it very likely should be changed out. I would be surprised if it wasn’t hard and brittle due to the heat. They can be rinsed by removing the hose and pouring mineral spirits through the hose, but once you’ve gone to the trouble of taking the hose off, just cut a new length of Tygon and change it. The service bulletin that was mentioned tells you what diameter of Tygon hose you need.

Thank you for the clarification. I will look. 

It would seem a good idea to buy a bunch (larger length) of said tubing, 0.75" ID. Any advice where? (generic source vs. actually looking for a matching part # and aviation-based source) This seems dead-simple, is it generally considered within the scope of preventive maintenance (as owner-operator)?

David

[LANCECASPER]

29 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

Thank you for the clarification. I will look. 

It would seem a good idea to buy a bunch (larger length) of said tubing, 0.75" ID. Any advice where? (generic source vs. actually looking for a matching part # and aviation-based source) This seems dead-simple, is it generally considered within the scope of preventive maintenance (as owner-operator)?

David

Details about the hose are in the above post. It's only $10 a foot at McMaster. You have to buy 50 feet from another company to get it down to $8 per foot and I think it would end up getting brittle before you used it all. 

It sure seems like preventive maintenance to me.

 

[dkkim73]

@LANCECASPER Ordered! Thanks for the detailed steer. I take it 5' gave you enough for both applications, alt. cooling and filler-to-separator run? (implied in the referenced thread)

[philiplane]

the yellow hose is only good for about five years. Wherever possible, MIL-6000 hose is better. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/mil6000.php

The yellow hose should not be used in direct exposure to oil or crankcase fumes. Only for fresh air ducting.