Tense moments with ATC due to an intermittent PTT

[TuomoMooneyFlying]

On my return trip from Anniston, the PTT switch decided to break. Have you had a similar experience and how did it go?

 

[StevenL757]

I've experienced this a few times in other airplanes.  It sounded like your transmissions were broken, yet somewhat readable.  To rule out a failure of the Capt. side PTT...start with these:

• Reach over to the F/O side PTT and see if that works.
• Switch radios (assuming you have more than one).
• Use your handheld microphone (assuming you have one).
• Try using a handheld comm radio, like a Yaesu, Icom, etc. (albeit, this has limited range if not connected to an aircraft antenna).
• Squawk 7600 so ATC knows you have a comm failure and can manage you accordingly.

If I may, a couple of unsolicited pieces of advice based on your video...

• When clearing a runway, announce "clear of Runway XXX" rather than "clear of the active".  Too many people use "the active", and it's really annoying, not to mention procedurally incorrect.  Regardless of how many runways are in use at any airport, everyone needs to know where you are.  They cannot assume - nor should you expect them to know - what "the active" is if they haven't landed or taken off yet, as a runway can change any time.
• When you were asked to keep your speed up on final, you acknowledged it, and made a comment about "landing long".  There is no such thing.  The proper term is "a long rollout", and it's something you should ask ATC for permission to do, as they expect you to turn off at the first-available and suitable runway exit.  Without asking them and getting it approved, you may be forcing other traffic on short final behind you to go around unnecessarily.
• Lastly, if you're not comfortable with accepting an ATC instruction to keep your speed up on final, go around.  Forcing the airplane to slow down quickly only helps de-stabilize the approach, which can lead to bad things.

Hope this all helps.  Good luck with the PTT issue, and let us know how it turns out.

Steve

[DXB]

39 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

I've experienced this a few times in other airplanes.  It sounded like your transmissions were broken, yet somewhat readable.  To rule out a failure of the Capt. side PTT...start with these:

• Reach over to the F/O side PTT and see if that works.
• Switch radios (assuming you have more than one).
• Use your handheld microphone (assuming you have one).
• Try using a handheld comm radio, like a Yaesu, Icom, etc. (albeit, this has limited range if not connected to an aircraft antenna).
• Squawk 7600 so ATC knows you have a comm failure and can manage you accordingly.

If I may, a couple of unsolicited pieces of advice based on your video...

• When clearing a runway, announce "clear of Runway XXX" rather than "clear of the active".  Too many people use "the active", and it's really annoying, not to mention procedurally incorrect.  Regardless of how many runways are in use at any airport, everyone needs to know where you are.  They cannot assume - nor should you expect them to know - what "the active" is if they haven't landed or taken off yet, as a runway can change any time.
• When you were asked to keep your speed up on final, you acknowledged it, and made a comment about "landing long".  There is no such thing.  The proper term is "a long rollout", and it's something you should ask ATC for permission to do, as they expect you to turn off at the first-available and suitable runway exit.  Without asking them and getting it approved, you may be forcing other traffic on short final behind you to go around unnecessarily.
• Lastly, if you're not comfortable with accepting an ATC instruction to keep your speed up on final, go around.  Forcing the airplane to slow down quickly only helps de-stabilize the approach, which can lead to bad things.

Hope this all helps.  Good luck with the PTT issue, and let us know how it turns out.

Steve

Good tips from a presumptive pro.  Looks like he touched down right on the aiming point and made the requested turnoff so it wasn't a "long" landing.  I suppose a long landing doesn't matter much from an ATC perspective, and a long rollout would be needed primarily due to slippery runway conditions.  

I've always wondered how best to handle it when told to keep my speed up.  I generally acknowledge, and then say I need to slow to 105 kt for my gear speed just before the FAF if on an approach or on 2 mi final if visual.  

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, DXB said:

Good tips from a presumptive pro.  Looks like he touched down right on the aiming point and made the requested turnoff so it wasn't a "long" landing.  I suppose a long landing doesn't matter much from an ATC perspective, and a long rollout would be needed primarily due to slippery runway conditions.  

I've always wondered how best to handle it when told to keep my speed up.  I generally acknowledge, and then say I need to slow to 105 kt for my gear speed just before the FAF if on an approach or on 2 mi final if visual.  

Yeah, that's a good way to handle it.  You're setting proper expectations by keeping them advised as to your intentions.  If I choose to accept a request to keep speed up on final (in the Ovation anyway), I generally tell ATC "I can give you 150kts to the gate, and then I need to slow it up...will that work?".  This lets them know you have control of the situation, are setting expectations, are able to safely keep the approach stabilized, and touch down at the acceptable speed to make a "normal" turnoff.

[TuomoMooneyFlying]

Yeah, that's a good way to handle it.  You're setting proper expectations by keeping them advised as to your intentions.  If I choose to accept a request to keep speed up on final (in the Ovation anyway), I generally tell ATC "I can give you 150kts to the gate, and then I need to slow it up...will that work?".  This lets them know you have control of the situation, are setting expectations, are able to safely keep the approach stabilized, and touch down at the acceptable speed to make a "normal" turnoff.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion, I’ll definitely do that next time. If you notice in the video, I’m checking my gear several times, during landing I was thinking to myself, “so this is how gear ups happen”, you get hurried by ATC, keep the speed up but not lower gear because you are above Vle. And the landing long comment was me thinking out loud that with the extra speed it’ll take a bit longer to settle her down but actually it worked out fine, made the first exit just fine.

[DXB]

16 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Yeah, that's a good way to handle it.  You're setting proper expectations by keeping them advised as to your intentions.  If I choose to accept a request to keep speed up on final (in the Ovation anyway), I generally tell ATC "I can give you 150kts to the gate, and then I need to slow it up...will that work?".  This lets them know you have control of the situation, are setting expectations, are able to safely keep the approach stabilized, and touch down at the acceptable speed to make a "normal" turnoff.

To be honest I'm not sure exactly what "the gate" is, but I'm open to throwing in the term if I can figure it out - I do enjoy trying to sound like the pros flying jets 

[TuomoMooneyFlying]

I've experienced this a few times in other airplanes.  It sounded like your transmissions were broken, yet somewhat readable.  To rule out a failure of the Capt. side PTT...start with these:

• Reach over to the F/O side PTT and see if that works.
• Switch radios (assuming you have more than one).
• Use your handheld microphone (assuming you have one).
• Try using a handheld comm radio, like a Yaesu, Icom, etc. (albeit, this has limited range if not connected to an aircraft antenna).
• Squawk 7600 so ATC knows you have a comm failure and can manage you accordingly.

It seemed like the PTT had a bad contact. It was intermittent. I did consider using the co-pilot yoke PTT but it’s in a really awkward position so was trying to make mine work first. I did have a handheld radio, so worst case I could have defaulted to that.

Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated!

[EricJ]

14 minutes ago, TuomoMooneyFlying said:

 

It seemed like the PTT had a bad contact. It was intermittent. I did consider using the co-pilot yoke PTT but it’s in a really awkward position so was trying to make mine work first. I did have a handheld radio, so worst case I could have defaulted to that.

Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated!

 

You have to move your headset mic connection to the passenger side for the co-pilot PTT to work.   Usually it is not practical.

 

[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

You have to move your headset mic connection to the passenger side for the co-pilot PTT to work.   Usually it is not practical.

Interesting.  On both my Ovation and work airplanes, that isn’t the case.  Each crew member can transmit from their respective sides, and both pilots can essentially speak and be heard, however, if @TuomoMooneyFlying’s situation is as you describe, I can see where that would pose a challenge inflight.

[StevenL757]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

To be honest I'm not sure exactly what "the gate" is, but I'm open to throwing in the term if I can figure it out - I do enjoy trying to sound like the pros flying jets 

Good point…sorry, I should’ve clarified.  Certainly not a “pro” term.  :-)

Generally, it’s a point just outside the FAF (and at least 5nm from the runway) that tower controllers use internally to route traffic.  They understand if you use the term that you’re able to stabilize your approach in time to make the runway and perform a normal, on-speed touchdown.

Thrust reversers optional.

Kidding.  :-)

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

Interesting.  On both my Ovation and work airplanes, that isn’t the case.  Each crew member can transmit from their respective sides, and both pilots can essentially speak and be heard, however, if @TuomoMooneyFlying’s situation is as you describe, I can see where that would pose a challenge inflight.

Should be able to test whether you get side tone or not when speaking in a mic but using the opposite PTT.

Edit:   I checked the installation of my PMA450 and it has separate inputs for both PTTs.   The manual says:

"Only the person who presses their PTT switch will be heard over the radio."

I think that's how most systems are configured.