robert7467 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Started out with the flaps not retracting. Now the flaps will not engage. Opened up inspection plate on belly, noticed the leak that looks like red maple syrup (brake fluid). Resivor was empty, so we went ahead and bled the brakes. Now its time to bleed the flaps. Where do we bleed the flaps? Are their any fittings that require special tools? We couldn't find the fitting to hook the brake bleeder up to. Does anyone have a picture of what to unscrew for old school bleeding (pump and release valvue/ repeat) or where to hook the bleeder up to push fluid through the system? And BTW I have an A&P assisting me, just not a Mooney guy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 From experience, One guy, pump and move flap valve. Second guy, move flaps through their range by applying pressure to their surfaces. Sometimes it takes a few minutes, some times longer. I never did figure out what makes it work. But once it does the system seems to be self bleeding. No air is stuck in the system. Remember to set the return rate. I like slow return, under air pressure it will happen pretty quickly. The manual gives the pertinent timing to use. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 but where is the flap valve?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 sorry, meant the bleed valve?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Flap valve as in the valve that you use as PIC. Up opens the system to allow pressure to flow back to the reservoir, down builds pressure into the system. Alternate pumping in both up and down positions. While someone puts pressure on the flaps to move them downwards. Sooner or later enough fluid enters the pump to prime the system and it begins to work as normal.... Wish I had a real answer for you. That was my experience. I don't recall any better information being available. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I have found that easiest thing to do is remove all of the fluid from the system at the low point (flap actuator, not the pump) and then back fill it from the same low point using a transfer pump or a hand pump like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648751-Pint-Capacity-Oil/dp/B004KEJYAY All normal techniques for sealed systems must be used. This is to say that you must seal the system when pausing to refill the pump. A larger transfer pump (like the one below) would be better as you could do the whole thing in one shot. http://www.gemplers.com/product/G50321/Steel-Hand-Pump?sku=G50321&src=25SEFGL&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=G50321 I did mine solo by threading a hose into the filler hole of the firewall mounted reservoir. I pumped from underneath the plane at the actuator until I had fluid coming out of the hose I threaded to the reservoir, I then closed the nipple on the actuator and siphoned the reservoir down to the desire level. It was a little messy, but it tightened up my flap actuation. 4 full pumps for 0 to full flaps, there is no slop nor half pumping required. If I pull the lever for a 5th pump, it just locks the lever in place… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flight2000 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 You may also want to check your o-rings and hoses, as they tend to get old. Willmar sells an o-ring set, and it is not very expensive. Take care not to lose the little check valve balls when taking the pump apart. Your brakes feed from the bottom of the resevoir, and your flaps from the top. Normally what happens when the fluid runs low, you get a couple of pumps in(the fluid in the line) then pressure is lost. Also if you take your pump apart you can reset your rate at which your flaps come up in accordance with your Mooney maintenance manual. As for bleeding, you can work out the air by the previously mentioned method of pressure on the flaps cycling the valve. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldeano Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 ok, somehow I was logged in as flight 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Thank you guys for all of your help. I bleed the brakes, and then bled the flaps. When this was done the flaps would go down, but took forever to come back up. I then adjusted the flap speed (little flathead screw, inside of a nut), and now the flaps retract 12 seconds... From what I uderstand this has been an issue for the last five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 When you first try putting the flaps up during flight. Be extra thoughtful. They will most likely retract faster than when on the ground with no air pressure on them. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 We applied up pressure when retracting... At least me know how to adjust it now... Thank you guys for all of your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Robert Just to clear up my cryptic post... The flap retract speed will be different than what you had before. If they snap up quickly, the change in lift feels dramatic. Doing this at altitude first, is better than close to the ground. When I first got my C, it used to dump the flaps in less than a second. That was alarming, especially from full flaps during a go-around. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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