OP ED-"Little Timmy Wants to Know Why Nobody Likes Airplanes Anymore?

[Tom]

HEY TOMMY-SHOW ME A PHOTO OF YOU STANDING IN FRONT OF YOUR MOONEY HOLDING UP A SIGN THAT SAYS "SHADOW MAN" AND I WILL STOP POSTING ON THIS THREAD.

 

 

Posting the photo at minimum will further exacerbate your narcissistic rage.  I don't want an angry narcissist in the world with a hate shrine with my photo in it in his closet.  Otherwise, your need for narcissistic supply will be met somewhere somehow in another thread where you can continue to post hundreds or thousands of attention-seeking messages....

[flyboy0681]

I get it. You are only wrong, when you say you are wrong.

 

You little devil you. How clever of you to carefully parse my responses. OK, I now see how you are very literal in your reading, and that's cool. As long as you are carefully parsing and interpreting my writings so literally, I did say "It appears that Americans have a 100% survival rate when treated here". I'm therefore off the hook because Dr. Salia was not an American, thus my statement still holds true using your rules. Touche.

[flyboy0681]

... Mine will be the most transparent administration in history.

All legislation will be posted on-line for days for all Americans to read.

The cost to the tax-payer will be plainly shown on all bills.

I will go through our budget line by line with a scalpel and cut spending.

Having that much debt is unpatriotic.

I will balance our budget in my first term or you shouldn't re-elect me.

This health care bill will actual lower our debt.

The average family's health insurance premiums will be reduced by an average of $1200 -$1400 a year.

I don't know any Jonathon Gruber.

America has a great Muslim heritage ...

I have been to all 57 states.

It was a dreadfully offensive YouTube video.

I killed Bin Laden ...

The war on Terror is at end; it's time to move on ...

I was a few rogue IRS agents in Cincinnati ...

If I had a son he would look like Trayvon.

I could be Trayvon

Stay the course

It appears that Americans have a 100% survival rate when treated here ...

 

 

You left out Solyndra.

[flyboy0681]

I THINK THIS IS A GREAT POST. ALL I WILL SAY IS THIS: THE MAJORITY AGREES THAT GOVERNMENT IS TO LARGE AND IS OVER-REACHING, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING ANY MODIFICATIONS (CODE WORD FOR CUTS) THERE ARE LARGE SCREAMS FROM THOSE IMPACTED (ON BOTH SIDES) AND THE CAN GETS KICKED DOWN THE ROAD. WE HAD TWO CANDIDATES LAST ELECTION AND THE MAJORITY VOTED FOR MORE BIG GOVERNMENT. I KNEW THAT MY BENEFITS WERE LIKELY GOING TO BE CUT UNDER RR, BUT I WAS WILLING TO ACEPT THE PAIN (LATER RETIREMENT/LESS BENEFITS) VS. CONTINUED EXPANSION OF BIG GOVERNMENT AND MORE DEBT. WHAT CHANGED SINCE 2012? EVERYONE SAYS THE ECONOMY IS THE NUMBER ONE DRIVER OF THEIR DECISION IN THE VOTING BOOTH, BUT THERE WAS NO VOTE FOR CHANGE. THEN THE MID-TERMS COME AND IT IS A WAVE. I HEAR YOU MODERATES TALKING ABOUT REIGNING IN BIG GOVERNMENT, BUT THERE IS NO WILLINGNESS TO FEEL THE PAIN THAT THIS WILL ENTAIL. MY TIK TOK IS THE CAN GETTING KICKED DOWN THE ROAD. THE LAST ELECTION WAS TO STOP OBAMA, BUT THERE IS NO COMMITMENT FROM THE MAJORITY TO REIGN IN SPENDING (BECAUSE BOTH PARTIES WISH FOR SPENDING TO CONTINUE). THE ONLY WAY TO RIGHT THE SHIP IS TO MAKE CUTS TO REALIGN THE BIGGEST PIECE OF THE BUDGET-SOCIAL PROGRAMS. (AND ALSO CUT DEFENSE). THE THIRD RAIL NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. THE "CONVERSATION WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE" IS LONG OVERDUE. RR TRIED AND FAILED. DO WE HAVE TO BE LIKE GREECE? TAKE IT TO THE EDGE? WE HAVE NO EU TO ASSIST US. IT IS WHAT IT IS (DEBT AND WHERE IT IS COMING FROM). IT IS BOTH PARTIES AS THE RIGHT TALKS ABOUT DEATH PANELS AND THE EVILS OF COST CONTROL WHILE COMPLAINING THT WE HAVE TO REIGN IN SPENDING.

EVERYONE SAYS IT IS SO COMPLICATED. IT ISN'T. IT IS TAXES/REVENUES AND SPENDING. HOW ABOUT AT LEAST BALANCING A BUDGET? HOW ABOUT BEGINNING TO MOVE TOWARD BALANCING A BUDGET?

 

 

Uh oh.

 

I'm in full agreement.

[flyboy0681]

+1

I also believe we should build/operate a treatment facility IN AFRICA. Stop flying those that took the risk back to the US. The plus is the facility can/will benefit African's too as it is IN AFRICA.

 

We already are.

[flyboy0681]

FLYBOY-REALLY? No comment or outrage regarding Gruber? Crickets?

EVERY American citizen should be outraged.

Why no comment here? Where do you stand?

Is it because you benefitted from the lie? At least then I can understand that you are just a Capitalist too.

"The Act" was for the good of "the collective people" regardless of tax increase and costs to the majority...It needs to pass for the good of those in need?

How about some intellectual honesty?

 

Some intellectual honesty. I've always contended that the country needed a comprehensive healthcare policy which protected every citizen from catastrophic economic demise in the unfortunate event they happen to get sick. The ensuing legislation, while well meaning, overreached its intended goal, became bloated and was driven by the private sector (read insurance companies). Some sort of catastrophic illness coverage may have done the job, but even that would not have caught an illness in its early stages because people wouldn't seek help because they would still be on the hook for medical bills.

 

Regarding Gruber, as a great American once said, a gaffe is when a person accidentally speaks the truth. Gruber's use of the word stupid was, well, stupid. If he used the word "ignorant" it probably wouldn't have blown up to the mythical proportions that it has. The word ignorant does not mean stupid but a lack of knowledge. American's are, for the most part, uninformed when it comes to political and legislative matters. I recently came across a study from England on the subject of ignorance. It reported results of polls from 14 different countries asking the identical questions. Guess who scored #13 (above the Italians)? Sometimes while flipping through the channels I stop at a house session on C-SPAN and don't understand a thing they are talking about, and I consider myself a fairly well read, traveled and educated citizen (your view may differ). Gruber's point was that the complexity of the issue was way above the pay grade of the average American.

[flyboy0681]

No, Gruber's point was that if we called it a tax it would not have passed. Gruber's point was that it was made very complex so it would not be scored negatively. Gruber's point was that we are smart (sneaky) and the Amerian taxpayer IS stupid, but the we are better for the law and needed to do what we did to pass the law. Stupid taxpayers-You are welcome.

 

Well, you know what they say about sausage and legislation.

 

You seem to be under the impression that all legislation is upfront, honest and instep with society. I contend that most legislation is not. Speaking of healthcare, look at that monstrosity of a bill called the Medicare Drug act. The list goes on and on..

[flyboy0681]

I was not the first one, nor the only one ... to "carefully parse my responses." (Ah-hemmm)

Not trying to directly comment on your character by referencing a commonly used phrase ... but I am trying to "keep you honest." (You make some large leaps, as we all do from time to time, sometimes ... in building your arguments ... )

 

Nuff said

[flyboy0681]

Why would you say that?-"That I feel legisation is upfront etc."? You refer to other legislation that I didn't support-based on the above e-mail that we agreed upon.

Flyboy you are a contradiction. You want smaller government (so you say), but you voted and WANTED the government to provide healthcare-as you described above. You act as if you understand Big government and expected the legislation on healthcare to be a mess-seeming to blame that on insurance companies-yet you WANTED it.

I see you and other Moderates such as yourself that want to have these "feel good" programs for everyone as a BIG part of the problem. You will just point to the past and say look what was done before as a business as usual...Everybody does it. In the healthcare I get it as you are vested and profit from it. Nothing wrong with that, except it was at the expense of passing legislation that is now viewed very unfavorably by the majority of voters.

Repeal it? It's a start toward moving Big Government that over-reached in the "Right" direction.

 

Which brings us back to square one, and probably to the first page of this thread. Maybe I'm just more compassionate than most Americans who don't believe everyone should have some sort of coverage. Maybe most American's haven't seen, as I have, how miserable ones life could be if they go without coverage and are just unlucky enough to come down with a serious illness which leads them down the path of bankruptcy. It's one thing to have a serious illness, another to have a serious illness and walk out to the mailbox only to find collection notices (stop, close your eyes and think about that one). I've seen it firsthand and it's as ugly as the American landscape can get. Is ACA the solution, hardly.

[flyboy0681]

This is so weak, and incorrect. If your legislation is so great, if you are such a great speaker, a person who is historic, a modern-day Abe Lincoln ... a Nobel Peace Prize Recepient: You should be able to win the support of the people, whose majority support you believe you already have!

This is a simple exposing of multiple layers of deceit. (Not that most of us trusting this bunch anyway.) A vast left-wing conspiracy to borrow other's terms.

Please, please re-read your comments and look for:

1) Your defense of supreme arrogance (Arrogance that says "I'm so smart I can deliberately lie to people because I know what's better for them than they do. In Political Science 101 it was called the theory of elitist rule.)

2) Your personal vanity describing your vast knowledge and travel ... as being so much above us normal average people.

If you can't see what's wrong here ... Whew ... I just don't know?

 

I wasn't aware that I said the legislation was so great. I seem to remember (looking up a few lines) that I wrote that it's bloated, overreaching and driven by the private sector. Hardly a recipe for greatness.

 

History has shown that very unpopular legislation at the time that it was written went on to be the right thing to do. You mentioned Lincoln. How popular do you think the Emancipation Proclamation was at the time? Civil Rights bill? Roosevelt's Lend Lease? Do you think that women's voting rights was widely supported in its day? Only through the prism of time can these things be sorted out.

 

Read my post again about my "personal vanity" (not sure I wrote about my "vast" knowledge about anything). My point was that 

the legislative process is so convoluted that a person who understands complex things can't even understand it. And I'll let you in on a little secret, there are an awful lot of ignorant Americans. If there weren't then there wouldn't be moochers and social programs wouldn't be needed, now would they?

[flyboy0681]

So you are ok with a few elitists, deliberately deceiving the rest of the government, the people and deciding what is best for everyone?

 

No, I'm not ok with it but that's the nature of the beast. Was the Medicare Drug act fully transparent and were the American people deliberately deceived?

 

A simple Yes or no Dave.

[scottfromiowa]

Which brings us back to square one, and probably to the first page of this thread. Maybe I'm just more compassionate than most Americans who don't believe everyone should have some sort of coverage. Maybe most American's haven't seen, as I have, how miserable ones life could be if they go without coverage and are just unlucky enough to come down with a serious illness which leads them down the path of bankruptcy. It's one thing to have a serious illness, another to have a serious illness and walk out to the mailbox only to find collection notices (stop, close your eyes and think about that one). I've seen it firsthand and it's as ugly as the American landscape can get. Is ACA the solution, hardly.

Yes, it does. I have closure.

P.S.-The Left does not have sole ownership of compassion. I 100% agree that catastophic illness is devastating...especially to those that do not have primary healthcare/catastrophic healthcare. We do agree that ACA was not the solution. I don't want to know what you think is the "solution". My wallet is not thick enough.

[flyboy0681]

You did not answer my question with a simple yes or no.

 

What was the question?

[flyboy0681]

Yes, it does. I have closure.

P.S.-The Left does not have sole ownership of compassion. I 100% agree that catastophic illness is devastating...especially to those that do not have primary healthcare/catastrophic healthcare. We do agree that ACA was not the solution. I don't want to know what you think is the "solution". My wallet is not thick enough.

 

My response assumed that a person who got sick was able to get treatment, but wasn't able to pay the bills once they arrived. There's a whole other part of the scenario: those that find themselves with an illness that can't find a facility or provider that will accept them as a patient because they have no coverage. Of course there are charities, but I'm not sure there are many out there that would take a stage 3 cancer patient in and treat them gratis.

[scottfromiowa]

I wish everyone had the capacity to not only adequately earn, but to also plan for their and their families/self future.

Freedom is a MF.

But the alternative is far bleaker.

[flyboy0681]

I don't want to know what you think is the "solution". 

 

As Ross Perot once said, I'm all ears.

[AndyFromCB]

Yes, it does. I have closure.

P.S.-The Left does not have sole ownership of compassion. I 100% agree that catastophic illness is devastating...especially to those that do not have primary healthcare/catastrophic healthcare. We do agree that ACA was not the solution. I don't want to know what you think is the "solution". My wallet is not thick enough.

 

And yet the rest of the civilized world's wallet somehow is? Universal care with better outcomes for half the price in Germany and rest of Europe? I wonder how they do it. One, I'm sure they let their government dictate prices.

 

Anyways, yes, the average voter is stupid. So Gruber was right. Ask an average voter if they support Obamacare. 60% oppose it. Ask an average voter about the individual pieces of the legislation, such as preexisting conditions, individual coverage that cannot be cancelled should you actually become ill and need said coverage, universal rating, etc, the support goes to 75%. How is that for stupid? Average voter is like Pavlov's dog, except the buzzer was replaced with buzz words.

 

Personally I believe ACA needs some major fine tuning, but it will provide Americans with much greater social mobility and economic freedom when health insurance is no longer attached to a paycheck. So many people are attached to jobs they hate simply because they cannot afford to leave due to health conditions. 

[flyboy0681]

And yet the rest of the civilized world's wallet somehow is? Universal care with better outcomes for half the price in Germany and rest of Europe? I wonder how they do it. One, I'm sure they let their government dictate prices.

 

Anyways, yes, the average voter is stupid. So Gruber was right. Ask an average voter if they support Obamacare. 60% oppose it. Ask an average voter about the individual pieces of the legislation, such as preexisting conditions, individual coverage that cannot be cancelled should you actually become ill and need said coverage, universal rating, etc, the support goes to 75%. How is that for stupid? Average voter is like Pavlov's dog, except the buzzer was replaced with buzz words.

 

Personally I believe ACA needs some major fine tuning, but it will provide Americans with much greater social mobility and economic freedom when health insurance is no longer attached to a paycheck. So many people are attached to jobs they hate simply because they cannot afford to leave due to health conditions. 

 

Nice to have some support for a change, although I do get private messages from people who support my point of view but don't want to get involved in the fray.

 

I've studied foreign healthcare delivery systems and could answer some of your questions, but the shellacking I would take here simply isn't worth it.

[flyboy0681]

Flyboy, I am just an average American. I work and pay my taxes. But I am too uniformed and stupid, call me ignorant, to have complex thoughts or answer any deep questions requiring more complex cognitive reasoning skills.

I defer to you, Barack, Nancy, Harry and Jonathon. You guys just tell me what I should think, what I get and what is best for me, because I just am really not able to figure any of that stuff out with my smaller intellect.

I'll just go to work tomorrow, stupid commoner that I am, as I always do and make the money to pay for whatever you smart and well traveled people have decided upon. I am just thankful for whatever of the money that I worked for ... that you and Barack, Nancy, Harry and Jonathon have decided that you will allow me to keep. Thank you for building the roads and bridges, and the schools and everything else. I owe you smart guys and the government everything!

 

On the contrary Dave. Based upon your responses and your accomplishments in aviation (among other things), you rank well above many Americans. 

 

But let me ask you again, was the Medicare Drug act fully transparent and were the American people deliberately deceived?

[flyboy0681]

Oh do please tell us about the great health care systems in Canada, Greece, England and France. None of us "commoners" have ever studied foreign healthcare delivery systems ... and even if we did ... we aren't bright enough to draw our our conclusions.

 

 

Exactly as astelmaszek said, considerably better outcomes than similar diseases treated here in the US, at a significantly lower cost.

 

The French love their system. And you may not remember this, but in 2010 when ACA was being debated and was being compared to the NHS in England, a conservative member of parliament actually came out in support of the NHS and made a statement that it was a fine system which just needed some updating.

[AndyFromCB]

Oh do please tell us about the great health care systems in Canada, Greece, England and France. None of us "commoners" have ever studied foreign healthcare delivery systems ... and even if we did ... we aren't bright enough to draw our our conclusions.

 

 

Actually, I don't have direct experience with Canadian, Greek or English system, but the French system blows away anything I've ever experienced in US of A, even with my so called "cadillac plan". Broke a wrist once skiing in Chamonix when I did work over there for AON and my total expenditure was zero, wrist was set using external pins that had to be taken out 2 weeks later in Omaha. The doctor in Omaha said we don't "that kind of stuff here" in relation to external pins and my US insurance company at first refused to pay to have them taken out as they felt me having full range of motion in my wrist was not worth paying for. The said only a simple cast would be covered. Only when I reminded them that I made health care decisions for what then was 80 employee company, did UHC budge. I can only imagine what's it's like dealing with them when you don't have an ability to put that kind of pressure.

[AndyFromCB]

Don't care about the rest of the world's healthcare. Do we have a Democracy? Yes. Did they vote for AHA? Yes.

How is that working out? Poorly

Am I going to expose the pain? Yes

 

So essentially, let's never learn anything from anywhere else because that's un-American? I mean, someone, somewhere might be doing something better than we do? Can't be.

 

And actually, we don't have a Democracy, we have a Republic. And the law was voted in, survived all challenges and the premiums in IA/NE for various companies I'm involved with, on average, actually dropped for the first time I can remember.

[flyboy0681]

So essentially, let's never learn anything from anywhere else because that's un-American? I mean, someone, somewhere might be doing something better than we do? Can't be.

 

And actually, we don't have a Democracy, we have a Republic. And the law was voted in, survived all challenges and the premiums in IA/NE for various companies I'm involved with, on average, actually dropped for the first time I can remember.

 

Many people have preconceived notions and are unwavering in their position. To say that the French and English systems are somehow substandard without knowing anything about them, isn't being very objective.

[AndyFromCB]

Exactly as astelmaszek said, considerably better outcomes than similar diseases treated here in the US, at a significantly lower cost.

 

The French love their system. And you may not remember this, but in 2010 when ACA was being debated and was being compared to the NHS in England, a conservative member of parliament actually came out in support of the NHS and made a statement that it was a fine system which just needed some updating.

 

Flyboy, but now you have to understand that a British conservative MP is so far left of Obama, that around here even Dennis Kucinich would not want to have anything to do with him. I'll repeat myself again, we don't have a left here in US of A. We have center-right and then the crazies who would not budge when Obama proposed 10 to 1 spending cuts to tax increases. So the taxes went up anyway as GWB's tax cuts went away and the crazies got nothing in return. Same thing is about to happen with immigration and the same law the crazies passed years ago, when they refused to fund various functions of government via general taxes and instead granted the executive the power to collect fees, will now be used to fund the executive order "immigrations reform". Be careful what you wish for. Yes, Obama has the constitutional power to do this because Reagan felt that National Parks shouldn't be free to all. 

 

Congress has for years abdicated its responsibility and its power of the purse to the executive so that the incumbents can claim they did not raise taxes during the election instead funding the executive with fees. Now the executive will collect fees from illegals to fund the processing and there is not a damn thing the congress can do. You show me one executive order of any importance that ever left the books after it was "declared" to be the law of the land.

[flyboy0681]

Flyboy, but now you have to understand that a British conservative MP is so far left of Obama, that around here even Dennis Kucinich would not want to have anything to do with him. I'll repeat myself again, we don't have a left here in US of A. We have center-right and then the crazies who would not budge when Obama proposed 10 to 1 spending cuts to tax increases. So the taxes went up anyway as GWB's tax cuts went away and the crazies got nothing in return. Same thing is about to happen with immigration and the same law the crazies passed years ago, when they refused to fund various functions of government via general taxes and instead granted the executive the power to collect fees, will now be used to fund the executive order "immigrations reform". Be careful what you wish for. Yes, Obama has the constitutional power to do this because Reagan felt that National Parks shouldn't be free to all. 

 

Immigration will be interesting. All I've seen on the blogosphere and a few tv programs over the past few days are scenes of Reagan and later Bush 41 signing very similar executive orders.

 

I actually remember that moment during the debates when the moderator asked each contestant whether they would support a 10 to 1 cut in spending asking myself who wouldn't take such a sweetheart deal?