Looking to Purchase - M20E vs. M20F

[pinerunner]

I thought about an F and then got an E.  I'm really happy with my E and have never regretted not getting the extra legroom for rear seat passengers. Have only had the opportunity to carry rear seat passengers once; they were teenagers and fit fine. The F has the full length rudder and so has a little better control I suppose and also for some reason it's redlined higher. My 183 mph redline doesn't seem like much of a problem in practice; if I really want the speed I go higher. Often I go for the lower fuel consumption possible at lower power settings so I'm not even in the yellow.

 

I think if you want comfort for four people on long trips in GA you probably have to spend a lot more, anyway. If I suddenly came into 50K I might trade up to a J but I think I'd sooner stay with the E and really trick it out.

[garysuperpilot]

Very nice F model came up on the forum a couple of days ago. I have a very nice F model but the one posted looks really good. Personally I like the room, 64 gallon tanks, better useful load. Almost bought an E model but got a an F for about the same price. I do take four a people quite often so it fits my purpose. Like everyone said the E model has the speed by a small margin but after flying a Cherokee at 100knots for nine years, 145knots is just fine. Good luck

[kiteflyer]

What did you end up deciding about that F model with the recent engine tear down?

 

Did you find any showstoppers in it's history?

 

I think it's this plane

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1967-MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1300343.htm?dlr=1&pcid=17527

for sale at All American in San Antonio.  

[FloridaMan]

I don't think it will be a dilemma when you find the right plane. There are very good ones out there. You'll know when she's the right one.

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[jbs007]

I got an E 1.5 years ago and love it.  They both have plusses taht are mostly negligable.  Get the better equipped/better priced one unless you really have a need for something.  All in all, the F is probably the more versitile model at the expense of only 5 knots or so while the E has a few extra knots but a smaller useful envelope and therefore geared to a smaller set of people. For my decision, these were my counterpoints to all F model luxuries:

 

1) I liked the idea of extra legroom in back for taking 4 pax but then I read a few threads of others who thought the same and then maybe once a year took 4 people somewhere.  This happened to be the case for me too.  I've flown with 4 people once for a 15 minute island hop. I dont know about you but I'm pretty short so I can fly with my seat full forward no problem which mostly negates the legroom issue anyway. 

 

2) As for extra useful load of the F, my wife (usually my other passenger) and I together weight 270... useful load not an issue. 

 

3) Extra gas of an F: I've flown all over the country and never felt like making a leg more than 4.5 hours anyway... 

 

What did I like aout the E?

 

1) Few extra knots.  I found one with all the upgrades.  It also has a 3 blade prop with takes a few back, but my take off roll pulls my velcroed Ipad off my yoke and I climb like a bat out of hell.  I still cruise around 150-152 true.

 

2) Take off and land distance with the E and the 3 bladed prop is amazing!

 

3) I found one with the upgrades I wanted at a good price.

 

4) Once again, a few extra knots.  As someone once told me who never used "economy cruise settings"... "I didn't buy an airplane to fly slow".  Right or wrong, this was ringing in my ear when I made the decision!

[kellym]

Well, you give up most of the exta speed the E has by using a 3 bladed prop, unless it is an MT prop. E model climb is the best of the 4 cyl models with standard 2 blade, so I can't see any reason to get a 3 blade. I sure wouldn't want to try to balance one with the standard non-counterweighted crank of the original engine.

My wife and I use our E like a Camaro, Mustang, etc. Enough room for all our stuff and full fuel. Just watch the aft C.G. and make sure enough wt is on back seat rather than baggage since we are about 300 lbs combined in the front seats.Have never had need to carry anyone in back seat for more than 1 hour flight.

While I have done 4 hour legs solo, with wife on board that will never happen, so extra fuel is not an issue. Room to move legs and change positions is what is lacking, and consequently I will soon replace E with RV 10 that has more space, is 15 kts faster, easier to work on and can use whatever parts I choose.

 

I got an E 1.5 years ago and love it.  They both have plusses taht are mostly negligable.  Get the better equipped/better priced one unless you really have a need for something.  All in all, the F is probably the more versitile model at the expense of only 5 knots or so while the E has a few extra knots but a smaller useful envelope and therefore geared to a smaller set of people. For my decision, these were my counterpoints to all F model luxuries:

 

1) I liked the idea of extra legroom in back for taking 4 pax but then I read a few threads of others who thought the same and then maybe once a year took 4 people somewhere.  This happened to be the case for me too.  I've flown with 4 people once for a 15 minute island hop. I dont know about you but I'm pretty short so I can fly with my seat full forward no problem which mostly negates the legroom issue anyway. 

 

2) As for extra useful load of the F, my wife (usually my other passenger) and I together weight 270... useful load not an issue. 

 

3) Extra gas of an F: I've flown all over the country and never felt like making a leg more than 4.5 hours anyway... 

 

What did I like aout the E?

 

1) Few extra knots.  I found one with all the upgrades.  It also has a 3 blade prop with takes a few back, but my take off roll pulls my velcroed Ipad off my yoke and I climb like a bat out of hell.  I still cruise around 150-152 true.

 

2) Take off and land distance with the E and the 3 bladed prop is amazing!

 

3) I found one with the upgrades I wanted at a good price.

 

4) Once again, a few extra knots.  As someone once told me who never used "economy cruise settings"... "I didn't buy an airplane to fly slow".  Right or wrong, this was ringing in my ear when I made the decision!

[DaV8or]

What did you end up deciding about that F model with the recent engine tear down?

 

Did you find any showstoppers in it's history?

 

I think it's this plane

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1967-MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1300343.htm?dlr=1&pcid=17527

for sale at All American in San Antonio.  

 

Wow! That F is worth every penny they are asking. That bird makes Js look bad. It's only ding is the 3 blade prop IMO. Anybody on this site looking for an E,F or even J needs to go see this thing! They don't come this loaded very often. All the expensive mods are done. All the cheap ones too! Put a top prop on and be the bell of the ball!

[jetdriven]

Well, you give up most of the exta speed the E has by using a 3 bladed prop, unless it is an MT prop. E model climb is the best of the 4 cyl models with standard 2 blade, so I can't see any reason to get a 3 blade. I sure wouldn't want to try to balance one with the standard non-counterweighted crank of the original engine.

My wife and I use our E like a Camaro, Mustang, etc. Enough room for all our stuff and full fuel. Just watch the aft C.G. and make sure enough wt is on back seat rather than baggage since we are about 300 lbs combined in the front seats.Have never had need to carry anyone in back seat for more than 1 hour flight.

While I have done 4 hour legs solo, with wife on board that will never happen, so extra fuel is not an issue. Room to move legs and change positions is what is lacking, and consequently I will soon replace E with RV 10 that has more space, is 15 kts faster, easier to work on and can use whatever parts I choose.

The downsides to an RV-10 are the higher fuel burn, and the 100K-125K  price of entry. That and a much worse fatal accident rate than certified airplanes. RV's, generally, are better than the average though .

[Immelman]

I used to think 4,5,6000 hours total time was "high". Now, not so much. I fly airplanes that are put to work, flying 8-10 hours a day, every day. Most of the aircraft I fly professionally are mid to late 1990s and have 30,000-45,000 hours on them, 50,000-60,0000 "cycles" (flights). Keep that in mind!

 

If you will take adult passengers with any frequency, look for the legroom of the F.

If that is a rare event (be realistic.. its very rare for me to take more than 1 person), buy the best airframe you can (E or F). As for the flight time, buy the one that has been flown the most consistently, particulary since any engine work. Sitting for months at a time with 0 hours logged is not good. Sitting for years with very little time is worse! I will let the others chime in on engine thoughts.

 

Get a thorough prebuy no matter what, and if you like that, turn that prebuy into a full annual inspection.

 

Don't get hung up on one being a few knots faster than the other or not. You are looking at the same basic airframe, wing, and engine. True mods like the fast hartzell prop and the 201 windscreen will make a difference, but really in the grand scheme of things 5 knots does not matter. You will get there, at the end of the day, in just about the same time and fixation on a few knots is purely psychological.

[bdjohn4]

Having just had to purchase a new motor, I'd get whatever had the best looking motor (not necessarily the lowest time motor but definately something <800-900 SMOH).

 

Also, if it has wet wings look at the quality of the reseal. I made the mistake of buying a plane that had tanks put in by a place that is now out of business for screwing over Mooney owners. Many of you know which shop. I would only trust one of the Mooney-specialist tank shops, like Wet-wingologist (whom I know) or Willmar (whom I've heard good things about).

 

Also, where did it spend most of its life, in Florida outside or in the desert in an Airconditioned hangar. Those things matter.

[chrisk]

Wow! That F is worth every penny they are asking. That bird makes Js look bad. It's only ding is the 3 blade prop IMO. Anybody on this site looking for an E,F or even J needs to go see this thing! They don't come this loaded very often. All the expensive mods are done. All the cheap ones too! Put a top prop on and be the bell of the ball!

 

+1.  I couldn't agree more.  If I was in the market, it would probably be on the way home.