SoCal to Boise, ID routing recommendation?

[zerobearing2]

We're moving from SoCal to Boise area soon -- therefore, I'll need to fly my M20C to its new home in Idaho. I have not flown in the northwest yet, and very unfamiliar with the area and terrain. Ideally, I'd like to plan routing that gives the safest options for emergencies given I'm in a single engine. I plan to make the trip in day/VFR.

 

My initial thought was something like : L18 KFCH KRBL KLKV KEUL, however, this route flies directly through bunch of MOA's and overflies large open areas with little options for emergency airports. Any suggestions, tips, or comments would be much appreciated.

[Danb]

Hopefully you can wait until spring, don't forget oxy..good luck

[Bob - S50]

Looks like a pretty reasonable general route to me.  If you are looking for more airports, after Lakeview you could head up toward Burns then east.  As for MOA's, Whitmore (near RBL) is 11,000 and above so you can fly under it.  Goose MOA (near LKV) is M-F so if you fly on the weekend you don't have to worry about it.  Hart is 11k and above.  Juniper Low could be active but ask ATC, its active by NOTAM.  Juniper High is 11,000 and above.  Or you could go east under Hart then north to Burns.  Going to Burns allows you to avoid the rest of the MOA's.  Or if you go direct to EUL, Saddle B starts at 8000.

 

Or, after RBL, fly to LMT, fly past Crater Lake, and take the wife/girlfriend (but not both) to S21 (Sunriver) and stay at the Lodge for the night.  Sunriver is a great family vacation area.  We try to go there every couple years.  The next day you can go east to EUL and avoid all the MOA's

 

Good luck.

 

Bob

[kmyfm20s]

I have flown from San Diego to Twin Falls and Boise many times. My route choice is L18(KMYF) LAS ELY LWL BOI KEUL. This route keeps you over highways and dry lake beds almost the entire flight, definatey more remote but safe. Nellis approach is good about getting you through the MOA's north of Las Vegas with only a few 10 miles stretches of no radar contact if you flight down lower (9000'). Depending on when your going I would be happy to guide you up there following in my plane, I'm always looking for a reason to head that direction.

[M016576]

I have flown from San Diego to Twin Falls and Boise many times. My route choice is L18(KMYF) LAS ELY LWL BOI KEUL. This route keeps you over highways and dry lake beds almost the entire flight, definatey more remote but safe. Nellis approach is good about getting you through the MOA's north of Las Vegas with only a few 10 miles stretches of no radar contact if you flight down lower (9000'). Depending on when your going I would be happy to guide you up there following in my plane, I'm always looking for a reason to head that direction.

When I was living in china lake, I used to fly to Boise and Twin Falls regularly in my J. Here's the route I used to use. Those mountains may be high, but the valleys are very wide and flat, with tons of strips along the way.

L72 BTY 0L4 TPH 05U EKO TWF

If I was going from San Diego to Boise, I'd do a similar route- fly just east of LA, then swing up north. Don't be afraid of 2508 (but keep your eyes out, or set your flight for a weekend.). Joshua will normally let you overfly 2505 during a weekend above 7K- just give Joshua a call. You'll be below radar coverage most of the flight. The weather is typically WAY better in the winter along the east side of the sierras, than over the Central Valley, where the Tule fog is crazy: very little chance of setting down over there (Central Valley) in case of an engine failure if the fog is a Rollin'.

PM me if you have any questions. I used to fly F-18's out of Lemoore and China Lake, and am currently based up at KLMT- I know the area pretty well.

O2 is not required- you can easily make this flight between 8 and 12K. I've done it a couple dozen times- never used O2.

[M016576]

Looks like a pretty reasonable general route to me. If you are looking for more airports, after Lakeview you could head up toward Burns then east. As for MOA's, Whitmore (near RBL) is 11,000 and above so you can fly under it. Goose MOA (near LKV) is M-F so if you fly on the weekend you don't have to worry about it. Hart is 11k and above. Juniper Low could be active but ask ATC, its active by NOTAM. Juniper High is 11,000 and above. Or you could go east under Hart then north to Burns. Going to Burns allows you to avoid the rest of the MOA's. Or if you go direct to EUL, Saddle B starts at 8000.

Or, after RBL, fly to LMT, fly past Crater Lake, and take the wife/girlfriend (but not both) to S21 (Sunriver) and stay at the Lodge for the night. Sunriver is a great family vacation area. We try to go there every couple years. The next day you can go east to EUL and avoid all the MOA's

Good luck.

Bob

I fly in goose, juniper and hart for work. We do fly one weekend a month in there. 2 Mondays a month we don't fly. Best to just call seattle center and ask if the MOA is hot. The last thing anyone needs is a close encounter with a F-15 that they aren't expecting (myself included).

[kmyfm20s]

When I was living in china lake, I used to fly to Boise and Twin Falls regularly in my J. Here's the route I used to use. Those mountains may be high, but the valleys are very wide and flat, with tons of strips along the way.

L72 BTY 0L4 TPH 05U EKO TWF

If I was going from San Diego to Boise, I'd do a similar route- fly just east of LA, then swing up north. Don't be afraid of 2508 (but keep your eyes out, or set your flight for a weekend.). Joshua will normally let you overfly 2505 during a weekend above 7K- just give Joshua a call. You'll be below radar coverage most of the flight. The weather is typically WAY better in the winter along the east side of the sierras, than over the Central Valley, where the Tule fog is crazy: very little chance of setting down over there (Central Valley) in case of an engine failure if the fog is a Rollin'.

PM me if you have any questions. I used to fly F-18's out of Lemoore and China Lake, and am currently based up at KLMT- I know the area pretty well.

O2 is not required- you can easily make this flight between 8 and 12K. I've done it a couple dozen times- never used O2.

I like that route and traveled it a few times, I would take that over the OP's route. I found coming up from San Diego that the restricted areas are to unpredictable and would have to navigate around them often and ended up taking longer. I also found that I would get a lot of turbulence in the TNP 05U stretch and you are definitely over less highway if you have problems. I like the scenery of the route you and I suggested. I have spotted large groups of antelopes, deer, and elk. It is also fun getting down low and get the feeling of speed. Nothing like a F-18 I'm sure:)

[ottorecker]

If I may be so bold....you might want to try this.......

 

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.67407444830224,-115.93652343983965&chart=301&zoom=9&plan=A.K2.L18:F.K2.DEWAY:V.K2.HEC:G.35.408901052589,-116.08703613514687:G.35.991785418565875,-116.7663574241856:A.K2.L06:F.K2.ELFES:A.K2.05U:V.K2.BQU:A.K1.KTWF:A.K1.KEUL

 

This routing avoids most of the SUA airpace (sans Shoshone and Panamint) but the Death Valley fly over is well worth it.  Altitude requirements are very reasonable for your A/C type.  I often fly straight up DV at a reasonably low level (for the National Park) and if the winds aloft are not screaming you should have a very good ride this time of year.  Joshua has good radar and VHF coverage in this area for flight following if you wish.  R-2502 is almost always hot so don't expect that shortcut but it never hurts to ask. R-48xx is pretty much the same.  I am a avid desert flyer and seeing the basin and range in DV and in the heart of Nevada from the Mooney is one of my favorite things in GA.  If the weather is good the flight will not disappoint.  (btw, We fly a C as well).  You may as well take advantage of this opportunity to see this awesome desert.  KTPH and KEKO are good relief and fuel stops along the way. O5U is a little more pricey for fuel but still acceptable. If you need an earlier stop L06 or KBTY would work as well (but no gas).  You can easily vary this routing for terrain and in would be a good idea to stay on the upwind side of the valleys.  Fallon, Owyhee and Jarbidge MOA's are worth avoiding but ZSC or ZOA can give you updates on activity along the way for a more direct routing to your destination if cold....You can save a few miles transitioning though the MOA's after BOU if able....I would definitely recommend ATC flight following in this area and get a clearance for a Boise Class C transition if you haven't got a shortcut trough the MOA..

 

Sounds like a great flight and much fun.......

[Bob - S50]

I fly in goose, juniper and hart for work. We do fly one weekend a month in there. 2 Mondays a month we don't fly. Best to just call seattle center and ask if the MOA is hot. The last thing anyone needs is a close encounter with a F-15 that they aren't expecting (myself included).

Its always a good idea to ask.  When I was at Holloman they had HUD film of a light twin that flew through the MOA unannounced and got between two aircraft during guns tracking practice.  Now that's close!  Should not be a problem flying ...below... the MOA though, unless you guys bust the floor.

 

I guess they should probably update the times on the sectional though.

[M016576]

Its always a good idea to ask.  When I was at Holloman they had HUD film of a light twin that flew through the MOA unannounced and got between two aircraft during guns tracking practice.  Now that's close!  Should not be a problem flying ...below... the MOA though, unless you guys bust the floor.

 

I guess they should probably update the times on the sectional though.

Bust the floor? Haven't you heard? Pilots *never* make mistakes!

The sectional times are mostly accurate, but the weekends we fly / work change quickly and often throughout the year. As a result, we have the airspace notamed off, but the changes don't make the sectionals.

That goes for most MOA's that I've operated in. It's hard to imagine / describe... My wife was completely astounded by this when we first started dating, but we as military jet pilots really don't know what we're doing / flying until about 4pm the day prior (that's when the flight schedule for the next day is typically signed). We lay out a flight schedule for about a week in advance, but training requirements, maintenance problems, weather cancels change that schedule rapidly, which ripples through our monthly schedules. Rarely do I get through a week where I actually end up flying at the same times / same missions that were scheduled on Monday. For a regimented, military organization; it's a very day to day profession. How does that effect us as GA pilots? Well, we (military) will call and activate MOA's last minute if and when we can to accomplish our missions. Think of the times on the sectional more as the 80% solution, rather than the "this is a sure thing." Again, the easiest way to figure it out is to just ask center (or desert, or Joshua) real time, and be smart about what altitudes and routing you pick.

[Dave Marten]

Sounds like a fun flight.

 

Another alternative: http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.67407444830224,-115.93652343983965&chart=301&zoom=9&plan=A.K2.L18:F.K2.DEWAY:V.K2.HEC:G.35.408901052589,-116.08703613514687:G.35.991785418565875,-116.7663574241856:A.K2.L06:F.K2.ELFES:A.K2.05U:V.K2.BQU:A.K1.KTWF:A.K1.KEUL

 

Or plain text: L18 HESPE PMD KMHV KIYK O26 KBIH KHTH YERIN KSPZ HZN LLC SDO REO ROUTY KEUL

 

689NM. Punch outta LA via the Cajon Pass (Hespe). North of Cajon you'll be handed off to Joshua Approach 124.55. Lean west to PMD to be on the west side of R2515 (Edwards). If cold on the weekend you can cross over R2515 at/above 7k MSL with Joshua Approach clearance (give me a wave as you fly by or if on the weekend watch out for a mad man in a 231 near Mojave). Same for those Navy guys just north at China Lake (R2505) if cold you'll be able to overfly.

 

Joshua Approach will happily handle you VFR to transit the MOAs (even when active) the planned route keeps you clear of the restricted areas (those pesky blue lines cluttering your sectional). The flight up the east side of the Sierras is scenic and normally severe clear. You'll have a nice flyby of Mt Whitney, etc.

 

KSPZ is a little over halfway at 398NM. Good self serve fuel, lounge, and crew car. Else stop short in Bishop for decent gas and a restaurant on-field.

 

10,500 MSL on the first half will keep you outta the rocks (north of Bishop). Passing Silver Springs to destination 9500 MSL is adequate.

 

Incidently if you choose going up the central valley via GMN TTE FRA Spook then swinging east over Lake Tahoe and joining the route at HZN it only adds about 50ish NM. Crossing Tahoe consider 11.5K. Brings in a potential lunch stop at Lake Tahoe (TVL) or overnight. The owner of Mountain West Aviation at TVL is a Mooney guy.

 

Other than transiting the R2508 complex (Isabella/Owens MOA) the route keeps you out of other SUAS (around the Fallon range complex). As you get near Boise those Mountain Home AFB Gunflighters may or may not be playing in Paradise and/or Saddle so just ask Salt Lake Center if its active, the route keeps you clear. 

 

Here is some helpful info on navigating the R2508 complex http://www.edwards.af.mil/r-2508.asp (docs on right side of page)

 

R2508 Mid Air Collision Aviodance (MACA) pamphlet -  http://www.edwards.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080623-104.pdf  Alot of great info, but all boils down to get flight following in the R2508 MOAs with Joshua Approach and stay out of the R-areas unless cleared by Joshua

 

Whatever route you choose - have a great flight

 

Oh, and incase I didn't mention it enough - flight following with Joshua Approach as you punch through the r2508 MOAs. They've never rejected a customer service in the complex.

[zerobearing2]

Wow! Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. I'll start researching all these routes. 

 

Thanks for encouraging the use of flight following too. Since my instrument rating, I got used to always talking to ATC. I've made it habit to fly with flight following when VFR if available (haven't been turned down yet). Especially since most of my flying down here has been in the LA basin congestion.

[AmigOne]

I live on the east coast but last summer I made a trip from DC to Seattle, then down through Oregon, California, Arizona etc. It was my fourth trip to the west coast but all previous flights had been the southern, lower route, this time over more challenging terrain of the northwestern US. I studied the sectionals for hours and that was very helpful in choosing a route with the nice valleys and emergency airports as close as possible. If I were to do the trip that you are planning I would fly to Redding, Ca and then turn northeast to Boise. Simpler, safer (less time over mountains, possible turbulence, etc)and yes, longer but not by much. For the first third from RDD to BOI there are several airports almost lined up with the route, the second third is the highest and then much lower all the way to BOI. This portion of the flight should last less than 3 hours and place you a minimum time over unfriendly terrain. I haven't checked the floor of the Restricted areas or the time at which they are active. Whichever route you finally choose, have a great and safe flight!!

[Randy_B]

Hey Zerobearing2,

 

Did you find a weather window to make your flight to Caldwell (KEUL)? What route did you take?  It is good to know there is another Mooney guy in the Boise area.  Maybe we will cross paths one day.

 

Randy

[zerobearing2]

Hey Zerobearing2,

 

Did you find a weather window to make your flight to Caldwell (KEUL)? What route did you take?  It is good to know there is another Mooney guy in the Boise area.  Maybe we will cross paths one day.

 

Randy

 

Hi Randy, have not made the trip just yet. Plans are delayed slightly. Have some real estate to finish unloading before we head outta town. What airport are you based at in Boise area? Any tips I should know about the area?

[Randy_B]

Zerobearing2,

I am hangered over in Nampa (KMAN).  It is pretty easy getting into and out of the area.  Up here in the wide open spaces we have to fly a little further to get anywhere.  But, we have the right airplane for making those trips as short as possible.

Randy