Have old PC and INOP Brittain AP in M20F

[Tmarsha]

Folks, a year ago October I sold my 182 (now in Africa) and purchased my first Mooney. While I owned the 182 I installed a GNS430W slaved to the original Cessna AP which worked fine for instrument training, etc. I traded in one of the KX155s with GS head and got a nice credit.

 

I am enjoying the Mooney and expect it to be my last plane. The Mooney has the original PC system, Brittain AP and old G820, all INOP. The Mooney also has dual KX155s, one with GS, KT76 Xponder, KN64 DME, KMA24. I would like to invest in a GPS and either fix the Brittain or install a used STEC or ??. Alt hold would be nice. TCAS would also be nice. I have no experience with the PC system or old Brittain  AP.

 

I have read many of the posts on this topic but gets confusing quick with all the different systems/options, I keep instrument current but don't plan to do much actual IFR flying. I have approx $10k to spend.

 

I currently fly with an IPAD mini and foreflight.  Thought, suggestions ?  Thanks  Tom

[KSMooniac]

I'd start with a call to the Brittain folks in Tulsa and go from there to get your PC system and A/P functional again.  It will likely be the most cost effective solution, even if you need to take a trip to Tulsa.  There are lots of good reports about working with them to get everything fixed or overhauled as necessary, and for very modest money.  I doubt you could find and install a used STEC system for <$10k unless you got very lucky.  

 

For weather and traffic, I can highly recommend adding a portable ADS-B receiver, although you might need to spend a bit more money to be ADS-B OUT compliant and enjoy the benefits of seeing all of the traffic.  Still way cheaper than a true TCAS system, though.  I've used the GDL 39 + Garmin Pilot b/c I'm an Android guy for now, but I'm sure the competition works great with Foreflight or Wing-X or whatever else.

 

GPS... my opinion that nothing less than a 430W is worth installing these days because the installation task is fairly substantial, and essentially the same for any new GPS install.  Might as well spend it towards the bare minimum the market seems to support these days and in the future.  A used unit with tray, connectors and antenna will be in the $6k-$7k range and you'll need a CDI (perhaps what you have could be re-used) and installation.  A KX-155 in great shape without glideslope is worth ~$1500 today on the open market, probably less at a shop on trade-in.  The DME, KMA24 and KT76 are only worth a few hundred each, max.  

 

I'd spend the bulk of the upgrade funds on the GPS and try to get your existing P/C and A/P system repaired.  Maybe add GPSS as well.  Go for a portable solution for traffic and weather and then enjoy a very capable plane!

[N601RX]

The original Brittain PC system will keep the wings level.  Came installed from the factory for many years

Brittain Accutrac-  Upgrades the PC system to allow it to track a GPS or Nav radio

Brittain Accuflite-  Upgrades the PC system to allow it to follow a DG heading

An altitude hold upgrade is also available.

The B5 and B6 are also available as a separate system but are rare.  They will fly a heading or track, some have altitude hold.

 

These are great systems and cheap to keep operating.  They cost a fraction of what anything S-tec cost to install or maintain.

[Schinderhannes]

I just got my PC system overhauled by Brittain. (Servo repair was $160; TC and servo control $600). The cost is extremely reasonably (by aviation standards) and the people are very nice and helpful. If you add the Accutrack II you have a good working autopilot. We have the Accutrack II coupled to a GX60 and the system tracks within 0.1 miles even in high cross wind condition. The install is very simple to install and I saw one for sale on ebay this weekend.

 

 

 

[scottfromiowa]

PC Basic wing leveler is very simple. If not working likely air leaks in plastic tubing going to wings or at the servos (metal cans with rubber baffles. Brittain will re-furb the cans for cheap (couple hundred bucks) Often they just need the tape seal re-done.

-I had basic wing leveler when I bought plane.

-I bought an Accu-trak on ebay and had brittain yellow tag it.

-Install (connecting to a Garmin GPS analog left right output and it tracks well

-A&P installed an Accu-Flite for me. The system with DG HEADING BUG were bought on Ebay. SYSTEM WORKS GREAT!!!

-Altitude hold going into plane in January.

All in I am under $5 grand with hardware and installation of the system (when completed)

Fix the PC. They are nice and when plane is trimmed they do very well at keeping wings level.

-There is also an electric (on pilot yoke for switch vs. a push button-as PC is ALWAYS on unless button is flipped) solenoid that will defeat PC with flip of switch. Nice when maneuvering. The solenoid was about a hundred bucks.

Good luck with your trouble-shooting/. Jerry, Kevin and CC at Brittain are AWESOME people!!!

[John Pleisse]

Brittan seals and a rebuild can be done for (at the most) $2k, but some members on this board have said that Brittan isn't the fastest on turnaround. Stec 20.....$11k. Stec 30 with ALT $13k installed. I had an Stec 30....very good AP.

[Shadrach]

If you decide to go S-tec, let me know and I'll take those tired, out of date Brittain AP parts of your hands...

[N601RX]

One other option if you just want a gps to drive the autopilot is to install a kln89 or 90 as a vfr install. You can pick these up for around $500 and the install is simple if it is just a vfr install.

[Tmarsha]

Thanks for the feedback. Fixing the old systems makes the most financial sense. I will call Brittain in Tulsa to get things started. Thanks again. Tom

[scottfromiowa]

Brittan seals and a rebuild can be done for (at the most) $2k, but some members on this board have said that Brittan isn't the fastest on turnaround. Stec 20.....$11k. Stec 30 with ALT $13k installed. I had an Stec 30....very good AP.

I didn't think you could install an STEC30 for $13k...WITH altitude hold. I thought hardware alone was at that price point. I will still be ALL IN on a solid wing leveler/auto-pilot for well under 50% of that price point. Made sense to me on my vintage bird. I will have to check prices again.

[scottfromiowa]

I found $12.5AMU's + install. No tracking (extra) but does have altitude hold on an STEK-30

[John Pleisse]

I didn't think you could install an STEC30 for $13k...WITH altitude hold. I thought hardware alone was at that price point. I will still be ALL IN on a solid wing leveler/auto-pilot for well under 50% of that price point. Made sense to me on my vintage bird. I will have to check prices again.

Scott, I had an Stec 30 installed for $11k with the ALT hold (not auto trim). This was in 2005. 8 years later and Cobham being unreasonable, I sure the price has gone up.

[Mooneymite]

Thanks for the feedback. Fixing the old systems makes the most financial sense. I will call Brittain in Tulsa to get things started. Thanks again. Tom

 

The PC is "stone simple".  Anyone who understands basic plumbing can understand how the Britain system works.  Before you start throwing money at the problem, either you, or a competent A&P can trouble shoot the system.  In my limited experience, the problem almost always centers on a leak at one of the "servos" (fancy name for a rubber boot), or a clogged PC valve.  The servos are easily accessable and the pilot valve is accessable through the left-hand avionics access panel on my '74 C.  I'm guessing it is similar on your F.  (pilot valve:  http://s282.photobucket.com/user/mooneymite/media/Mooney%20pilot%20valve/IMG_1877.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)

 

Since you have an F model, I suspect you have one of the latest iterations of the PC.  They changed over the years.  You can work wonders with electrical tape around the servo boots and checking the operation of the pilot valve.  There are Britain manuals on the Internet that guide your trouble-shooting, but make sure you get the one that matches your installation, or you will really get confused!  

 

Like I said, "basic plumbing".

[nels]

Will Brittain in Tulsa take your plane in their hangar and do the repair or do you need to send them the components.

[N601RX]

Will Brittain in Tulsa take your plane in their hangar and do the repair or do you need to send them the components.

They will do it either way. The cheapest way for most is to call them and let them help you and your mechanic troubleshoot on phone and then remove and send them your defective part.

The 1st step should be to rule out any leaks. This can be easily done with a handheld vac pump with gauge. There is a red and green hose at the bottom left corner of the pilot side panel. They are slid up over a hose barb that is used as a bulkhead pass through. They can be accessed by removing the left side Avionics panel the easiest. By connecting the vac pump to one at a time and pumping you should get a full downward deflection of the aileron on the side the hose goes to. If I remember correctly it takes 30-40 pumps and it should hold its position with little or no pressure drop on the gauge. Don't go past 4-5 psi. If there is a leak up front, you can then move to the tee in the baggage compartment and test the wing and rudder servo and plumbing separately. They last a long time and all mine needed was cleaning and new tape.

If only one side is leaking it will pull toward the side with the leak. It takes a very small hand or a hand with 2 wrist joints to get the wing servo out. The rudder ones are pretty easy to get to.

[Mooneymite]

They will do it either way. The cheapest way for most is to call them and let them help you and your mechanic troubleshoot on phone and then remove and send them your defective part.

 

 

I think the folks at Britain are great.  Very helpful and knowlegeable.  Their prices are very reasonable when compared to S-Tec.

 

However, because so many of these systems have been removed as newer autopilots were installed, I've been able to buy serviceable parts cheaper from Mooney sources than Britain charges to re-build.  If the TC needs to be overhauled, most any gyro shop can do the work, but it's probably cheaper to find a serviceable unit than overhaul yours!

 

So, download the manual, do a little trouble-shooting.  If you need a part, check around.  It's probably sitting on the shelf in a hangar at a very reasonalbe price....sometimes free!

[SkyPilot]

I have the wing leveler and heading bug autopilot. It was hunting back and forth and had a broken peice on the front on the switch for the HDG, TRK, etc. I sent it in 3 weeks ago and it is fixed now for a total of $417.00 (plus shipping). They changed out a couple of the capacitors inside. I have not yet received it back but it will be home before I am. Not bad. It looks like that is the first "box" repair in 46 years so that works out to just of $9 per year for maintenance (not including shipping)

 

Not bad. I bet a King would be Waaaaay more.

 

I have not yet re-installed or test flown it so I can't be sure that was the only problem. I'll update this early in December.

 

 

Paul

[jetdriven]

Scott, I had an Stec 30 installed for $11k with the ALT hold (not auto trim). This was in 2005. 8 years later and Cobham being unreasonable, I sure the pri e has gone up.

Yep, now the 30ALT altitude hold module only, is 10-11K installed now.

[SkyPilot]

It took me a long time but today I flight tested the Brittain autopilot and it works beautifully. Kevin at Brittain did a great job. I am totally satisfied. My T & B aileron adjust screw is a bit tight so I will send that in next. If they can't fix it that will be next on the list or repairs. But so far $9 per year for maintenance on an autopilot system? WOW! Beat that King...

[N601RX]

An E model close to me had problems with their S-tec 30 a couple of months ago.  The total bill was $4K.