201er

A better question is how would our insurance treat this kind of incident? If the pilot tows the plane and bends the gear, I'm pretty sure it would be covered. But a lineman?

I do wing sumps first. Outboard then inboard sumps (monroy tanks). I do the gascalator last. I figure I should sump top down on the system so I could catch any water upstream and possibly sump more downstream if necessary. Especially since I usually don't get to see what comes out the gascalator.

I too sump the tanks before the rest of preflight. I have gotten water on several occassions so I am very thorough about always checking. Mainly it was the result of driving rain and a bad ring but there are other ways to end up with water. Smelling the fuel is really important cause one night I took a sample and it appeared homogenous (no bubbles) and it was hard to discern color in low light. But the smell just wasn't strong enough. So I sumped another tank and sure enough that sample floated upon the first and it turned out the entire cupfull was water at first. I ended up sumping about 6 cups of water out of that tank until I got to fuel. And I kept going just to be sure. If I so much as see a drop of water in the fuel, I dump it. But when it is clear I pour back in through gatz jar filter. I always sump when taking on new fuel. You never know when their fuel tank could have leaked in water. Seth, no offense, but I think your nuts not to sump and inspect the fuel you're putting in! For all you know it could be all water or a few cups worth (which would sink quickly enough to find). You're right that a single drop of water may get stirred up and go unnoticed but what if you're taking on a lot of water? I've read about a guy who landed at an airport (I used to fly out of), got gas, didn't sump, took off, crashed within a mile of the runway and died cause of water in tanks. I think pouring back good looking and filtered fuel back into the tanks is far safer than skipping sumping all together when refueling. Proper disposal of fuel is usually difficult or impossible. Pouring it back in is not only economical, but it's also a legal way of taking care of sampled fuel.

Cool! Been there a couple years ago, it's really nice. I have a friend that lives there but Mooney just don't cut it when it's that kinda distance! Looks like I'm heading to Charleston SC for the weekend. I'll say hi to Rick for you.

Hey Brett, shouldn't you be all for Rick Santorum? He's from around your neck of the woods isn't he?

Ok, flew to my mechanic today with alternator inop. I started up on remaining battery alright, turned off a lot of stuff (radios, audio stuff, electric gyro instruments) took off, saw a glimpse of alternator voltage so I got optimistic that it was working at full power. So I decided to retract the gear using alternator power but sure enough as I trough the switch up, the alternator went back out! Too late to change anything but at first I was concerned the gear wasn't fully raised. The red light was out on the panel so I decided it must be. I flew the whole way with pretty much only the transponder running. Put the gear and flaps down on remaining power no problem. Mechanic worked his magic and said it's not the alternator (nor a loose connection) but the voltage regulator. He didn't have one in stock but I need the plane for a trip tomorrow. So we located a part at Robinsville so I rented a cherokee from them and flew to get it. My goodness, cruising at what is normally my pattern speed! Anyway, got the new regulator and all seems to be working ok. A good deal cheaper to fix than replacing alternator!

VNE is published in the limitations in KIAS. Flutter is based on a certain true airspeed. They probably figured that if you don't exceed the indicated VNE speed below the service ceiling, you won't reach the flutter speed.

I had a complete electrical failure at night with an instructor on my first night cross country. We were getting a discharge light at the ground at our turn around destination and the radio wouldn't transmit below 1200RPM. I didn't know any better, the instructor was a moron. We flew back with a failed alternator not realizing we were going exclusively off the battery. Right after touchdown at home field the everything went out. For a moment I thought we crashed. Then I realized the electrics shut down and we had to taxi back in the dark with no landing light and barely any taxi/airport lights. What this made me realize was that if we had returned just 5 minutes later, we would not have been able to get the runway lights on cause neither of us had a hand held. From then onward I have always carried a handheld in my bag. Then one time I wanted to use it just for listening to traffic on the ground and it didn't work. The battery discharged from lack of use and wouldn't recharge. So now I remember to recharge it from time to time but also I bought a AA battery adapter for it and keep a set of lithium batteries in the holder (those are rated for like 10+ years) and another set of AAs in the bag. The only thing I lack is a headset adapter, next on my list. I also had partaken in an alternator failure at night with my friend in his Bonanaza and have had electrical issues in a cherokee and an arrow. I'm all too aware of flying without this stuff working. I'm used to flying gliders so the idea of flying without a radio (except in a substantial emergency) doesn't bother me too much in the daytime. Electrical failure at night is really bad and in IMC is catastrophic!

I've been thinking about one of those charger things! However, my cigarette lighter port doesn't put out current unless the master is on. I think it's a good guess that it wouldn't recharge without leaving the master on (which I'm not going to do)? Is there any easy way to bypass the master for this kind of setup?

Is there any good way of guessing how much juice I have judging by voltage? If I'm seeing 11volts, do you think that's enough for 30 minutes of normal flight exclusively off the battery? Just my luck, the alternator will work and I'll have no problem getting there and mechanic will think I'm making it all up.

Quote: rob To your last sentence, I'd be sure to depart with as close to a fully charged battery as possible. Are you not able to get it on a trickle charger?

Quote: jetdriven Our alternator quit and the opther partner ran it down to 8 volts. Flew it 2.5 hours with everything on. Nothing would work. Except the gear came down on its own and green light. The air pulls it down, the motor has no load. Rather than fly 50 miles with the gear down, I would put the gear up, kill the master switch for the 20 minutes it takes to fly 50 miles, and then make a normal landing. I bet with only one NAV/COM turned on and a GPS, you can do it with everything on. It is a theoretically 30 AH battery, figure half of that is usable, you have a realistic drain of 15A for an hour. But that is just me. 75-80 knots will be near your most fuel efficient speed for range with all that drag. SWAG guess, around 65% power to get that.

I gotta fly my plane over to my mechanic 50 miles away to get work done on my alternator. If the alternator doesn't work on my ferry flight, I'm going to run minimal electrics off the battery and leave the gear down. What I'd like to know is what is the best speed and power setting to use doing this? Obviously the gear is going to make a ton of drag and I won't be going fast. But is it better to run 75% to have more power to overcome drag of the gear or is it better to fly 55% accepting the fact that I'll be going slow and just save some gas? I'm not really on top of what kind of power is needed just to keep it level and moving with the gear down. I just remember surviving an altrenator failure at night with my friend in his Bonanza and with 75% power and gear down barely pushing 100knots!

Do you use a mechanic on your home field or do you have to fly to get work done on your plane? Do you travel because no one is available at your airport or because you think the mechanic you travel to is better/cheaper?

Ok, for a hangar guy this may not be as appealing as someone who has to go portable to a tie down you can't even pull car up to but I'll throw it out there. Black and Decker cordless inflator This thing is awesome. Charge it at home or in the car (comes with both cables). It pumps slowly but to any PSI well in excessive 150. Just hook it up to the tire and it gives you a digital readout on the display. Use the +/- keys to input the desired PSI and let it run. You can walk away to work on something else and come back in a minute when it is done (automatic shutoff). It has additional hoses for inflating balls, airbeds, etc. It's lightweight and portable so easy for me to carry from car to plane or take on board just in case. When I had a leaky tube, I'd bring the unit with me to top the tires off as needed. The battery lasts for at least a dozen inflations. Even has a built in light for night time inflations. I also got one of these Black and Decker jumpstart/inflator things. To be honest I haven't used it as an inflator cause it has a less precise analog gauge and mostly used it as a battery source. It's pretty heavy and not as good but convenient as an all in one electric/air source to have for the plane. I think it even has an AC inverter built in for low power 120v devices as well. Note I don't work for home depot or black and decker, just really happy with the quality, usefulness, and value of these devices for my airplane.

Quote: Becca Don't worry too much, my vote doesn't really count for much based on my current residents deep in the heart of Texas with Ron Paul running unopposed as my Representative for a decade now and more than 60% of the voters going straight party line, I'm not exactly in a swing district.

Which way are you looking? Top down or bottom up? Do you take just top cowling off or gotta take em both off?

^Could you please explain to me (perhaps photos/diagrams if available) where and what I'm looking for. I admit my airplane maintenance apptitude is about on the level of a chipmunk repairing a beaver dam but I'm trying to learn. Thanks!

Brett lucky you! I had to freeze me *ss off doing that in sub 20F outside with massive windchill blowing through. Every time I had take my gloves off to handle something I couldn't feel my hands. Then 15 minutes after I finished all the preheating and preflighting I had to go back and tie everything back down cause the alternator wasn't working!!!! Then when I thought my problems were all over and after 1+ hour driving to the gider airport, my airspeed indicator turns out to be frozen for an hour of ridge soaring! Oy, this cold sure makes for a lot of trouble.

Quote: Becca I'd like to rephrase this question to remove all the judgment that is going on here: What manuevers may be done, legally and within the certification envelop, of a Mooney aircraft, which might be entertaining/educational/fun for a passenger that is not nervous about GA and would enjoy seeing something more than straight and level flight at cruise altitude?

Alternator hiccup turned into alternator nightmare. This morning I fired up the engine to be welcomed by low voltage alarms immediately and discharge on the ammeter. I had just preheated the engine and the morning was absolutely frigid (sub 20F with massive wind chill) so I decided to run the engine a little longer to warm it before shutting. Flipping master on/off, pulling alt field circuit breaker, turning extra things off, none of this helped. I shut down engine after it was warm enough for a hot start and got out to check the alternator belt. Gave it a tug back and forth and seemed fine. Got back in, easy hot start, alternator working off the bat! I took my time taxiing out, did my run up. Voltage still good. At the final stage of runup where I bring the power back, the alternator did not come back in when I reapplied power back to 1000RPM. Once again no amount of fiddling would bring it back so I taxiied back and shut down. Some suspicion rests with the voltage regulator. But one question I have is, can the cold be doing something to mess with the alternator? My guess is if there's enough power to turn the starter, there's gotta be enough for the alternator field right? I'm worried to start it again (unless I'm ready to fly it directly to my mechanic) just to test it.

My 201 came with JPI EDM700 and Monroy 100gallon total tanks. Very happy with both. The extended tanks are good not just for long range flight but also for infrequent refueling (especially if fuel is very overpriced at your home field). By having extended endurance, you don't HAVE to get gas at your break stop and continue to where it will be $2 per gallon cheaper a few hours later. That can save hundreds of dollars (doubt it's enough to justify the tanks strictly on savings though). Another plus side to the tanks is that you have options. You can but don't have to refuel to capacity. So you can still fly just as light as without them. However, if you do plan to use the tanks to the fullest, don't expect to take more than 2 people. With 100 gallons, your remaining payload is going to be around 400lbs or less. So if you fly 2 heavy guys or more than 2 people often, unlikely to benefit from them.

^ Thank you! Brilliantly put! I never asked about doing aerobatics in a Mooney, just wanted to know what kind of stuff is safely/legally possible. I've done some of the things you mentioned like collission avoidance dive! Atlantic City approach pointed a pair of C130s straight at me when we were both talking to ACY and didn't alert me of traffic until after I was diving to get out of the way! I admit I was too preoccupied in the cockpit not to notice them sooner but they move fast and you can't rely on flight following to keep you safe! Also have done low passes to have someone on the ground verify gear down when a light wasn't working properly on a rental aircraft.

Pull up, slow to minimum speed, push forward? Kinda like this?

I'm not gonna spin a Mooney. But there's gotta be something you can do? This kinda stuff is so much easier in a glider!