RJBrown

For local fun flights, $200 dollar hamburgers and occasional trips with no hard time lines VFR is OK, I guess. There is a place for both VFR and Sport pilots. In fact the biggest difference between the two is the equipment that can be flown. The type of flying is closer between them than between VFR and IFR. Weather changes all the time. Forecasts are qualified guesses. There are very benign IFR situations that can trap a VFR pilot for days. I got my PPL Oct 14 1992. In the next year I flew over 165 hours as a VFR pilot. I flew all around the southwest. Colorado, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and California were my usual trips. The MOST VFR friendly section of the country. Most sunshine combined with the least humidity. In that year there were 4 trips that were impacted by the lack of the IFR ticket. The simplest was waiting out the marine layer over Palomar airport (CRQ) A silly little 300 foot thick layer I could almost see through and I was stuck till it lifted. Then there was the temperature inversion over the Salt Lake Valley. 3 days later a friend that worked for the airlines jump seated out to rescue me. By the time we left it was, you guessed it, VFR all the way. Another trip to SLC and the whole Wasatch front had clouds just over the ridge. Flew south till I passed the clouds crossed over and followed I-15 up to Salt Lake. About 250 miles out of the way to cross 5 miles of clouds. Another weekend trip to Salt Lake with my kids saw them driven home by a cousin while I waited it out for 3 day. Each of these trips inconvenienced me. From a couple hours in California to a few hundred mile detour to a few days stuck. Each one would have been a non event IFR. 10 minutes actual would have fixed any one. By the next November I had the IFR ticket. What you learn IFR can Sace your life VFR. We used to fly from Cenntennial (APA) to Leesburg (LEE) Florida to visit my inlaws. We would always leave early in the morning have breakfast in Little Rock and be down by noon. Flying early helps avoid the afternoon build ups. This particular morning the auto pilot failed over easten Colorado. Severe clear NO MOON. Could not see a horizon, the stars and farm houses looked just alike. The next two hours were the toughest IFR I ever flew and there were no clouds anywhere. This was the type of VFR that killed JFK Jr. Be Safe Be Qualified. If you travel at all you will wish you had the IFR rating. You are a safer VFR pilot if you are IFR qualified. Planes are fun. I call mine a toy all the time. With out a IFR you are limited to treating it like a toy. Don't limit your fun. Don't limit your safety. Just DO IT!!

I owned a 231 and flew it for about 100 hours before converting it to a Rocket. I flew it another 800 before selling. "The overhaul is going to be more on the Rocket, and you have to do it more frequently when referencing TBO." Per mile traveled both are about equal assuming both make TBO. In real life the Rocket has the advantage. Most TSIO360 don't get to 1800 and if they do it is with a top in between. The 520 easily makes its TBO (usually more) 1800 is more common with a 520 than a 360. Paul's discussion of 231 vs 252 is pretty accurate. The 252 is what the 231 should have been. Mooney was cheap and premature in selling the 231. With intercooler and wastegate added to a 231 it helps but the 252 is better to fly and maintain. The Ice discussion comes from a pilot in Minneapolis MN. Much bigger deal north and northeast. I normally fly south and west and would not choose the added expense and complication of TKS. TKS can be added to any K but only the 252 can have FIKI. IMHO the difference in safety is small. The safest of the 3 would be a TKS Rocket. The climb performance of a Rocket is amazing. Above or below the ice level is safe. With the ability to climb 1500 per at 24000 the time exposed is much less with the Rocket. Rocket engineering did all the flight tests to certify to 31000 but did not proceed to certification. The flight performance was the easy part the cost to do it was what stopped them. Highest I ever got was 26000 and I only needed to get that high 3 times. Allowed my to stay in the clear. All 3 times I was alone in the plane and relatively light. Climb was still at 1500' per minute. 300 knot ground speeds east bound are fun to see. The only ice that ever scared me was induction icing at 21000' in the 231. Lost power up high and did not get it back until on approach to Centennial. The current market gives the Rockets an advantage over the 252. A lot more performance for less money up front. If fuel burn is a real concern at 55% a Rocket does 186 @ 12000 on about a gallon more than the 252. The Rocket will carry more, higher and faster than any other Mooney. What I miss most flying my 1990 MSE is the climb. What I bought for a fast efficient retirement plane leaves me wanting at times. It is hard to go back after owning a Rocket.

My username is Mooney 231, but for some reason the forum seems to think I'm logged in as RJBrown. Very strange. Any thoughts? Jason (Mooney 231)

I am a former Rocket owner, and hopefully again in the future. The comment about the "poor mans" Ovation is only true in the best way. Though they may be a more capable plane they do cost less to acquire in today's market. Rocket engineering looked at the TLS and seriously one upped it. Higher, faster, further, better load carrying and all on less fuel. The Missile was an offshoot of the Rocket and compares as well to the Ovation series. The ONLY down side is the smaller cabin. With their 8 point engine mounts they are even stronger than what Mooney sold. Mooney COPIED Rocket in the use of Continental engines. Rocket Engineering is a stable company. Mooney is ???? The factory support for Rockets and Missiles is much better than from Mooney themselves. Rocket is currently putting turbo prop engines in Piper PA-46 and Beech Duke, Bonanza and Barons. They changed with the market and are still a viable concern. The strength of their business allows complete support for their Mooney line. Today's market has been even harder on these conversion than the rest. This makes them an extremely good value today.

There are flat rate manuals for the cars you describe. Both body and mechanical. I understand that not all jobs can be quoted by the book. Cars from rust belt areas that come here are much more time consuming to repair. That and other factors can cause a higher charge. We adjust the QUOTE to cover what we see. There are at times unforeseen factors that can increase a quote, but that is quite rare. The premise is that each repair has a value. My experience can adjust that amount to compensate for extra factors. ALL jobs are quoted ahead of time and any up charges are relayed to the customer BEFORE charges increase. We as pilots have been trained to accept vague answers and nebulous bills. If planes are really the complicated mystery that mechanics imply they are then maybe the mechanics don't know enough to do their jobs. A quote should be a contract not wild @$$ guess. There are laws in Colorado that protect car owners from the " well that was just an estimate it really took this long to do it" type of operators out there. The experience and efficiency level of the tech should not reflect in the cost of repair. A slow inefficient or experienced tech charges MORE for the same job? This is just wrong. To charge for "learning" by the tech is wrong. The "we did this this and that but could not change the complaint", but by the way here is the bill. I wish that airplane repair businesse could be held to the same pricing, estimating and billing standards that we hold.

Quote: leesh

Quote: leesh

I bought my first plane "in between" wives. Scared the heck out their mother when I took my kids flying and for that matter Scuba diving and motorcycle riding. I vowed that there would be a plane in my life before there was another woman. The plane was part of the package when I married my wonderful wife 15 years ago. She rides, got the motorcycle endorsement, and dives with me. She went flying many times before I got too serious. After we were married there were times she complained about the costs associated with flying and wished I would sell it. 8 years ago I sold it for business reasons. Once we were without She missed it. All the trips we took and the freedom it afforded us. Like the song says "you never know what you've got till its gone" Today she is more tolerant of flying, even wishing we had held out for another Rocket and not chose the J. If you are already in a relationship it can be tough to win her over. Short smooth rides and fun destinations help. Act professional, explain what is about to happen. First time over that ridge that always has turbulence should not come as a surprise but a demonstration of what you already explained the whys of. Take it slow and yes the statistics really are in our favor. Fewer fatalities per hour of operation than on the roads. The more we as couples can enjoy together the better the relationship gets.

I have the yellow plug pictured. I have used it on 12 and 24 volt Mooneys. It works great. Expensive for what you get though. With it any battery charger can be hooked to it for use. Auto specific chargers cost much less for the same thing. I believe the aircraft specific items we are offered often are re labeled car stuff. 24 volt is common for truck specific equipment and still wont cost what "airplane" stuff does. In a pinch a 24 volt plane can be jumped/charged with a 12 volt charger in series with you car battery.

And those D@MM bast#$%^ stole my Loran. They did it Because GPS was All we would ever need. I had GPS, LORAN, VOR/DME and ADF in my plane. Used them ALL. The current all the eggs in one basket mentality scares me.

Sarcasm aside this specific repair is too simple for words. For it to stump ANY mechanic you must question his diagnostic skills. To bill for more than it SHOULD have taken is theft. I have fixed cars first as a mechanic and now running my own business since June 1st 1981. Any car on the road today is MUCH more complicated than any Mooney. If I have a mechanic lost on a job and have to teach them what to do I dont charge the customer for the lesson. My policy is to charge the customer as if the job was done properly from the start. I have found aircraft mechanics to be more parts changers than mechanics. If a book can't tell them what to do they are lost. A simple wiring diagram combined with common sense would tell you what was NOT on the master switch. Dome light and clock are about it. Check those items. Drink a cup of coffee and stop for a smoke break. Now that you have 15 minutes invested. You are done. For some reason we as pilots allow ourselves to be charged for "learning" by the mechanics. There is a flat rate manual for auto repairs. The idea is that a specific job is worth a certain amount. If a rookie takes longer to do the repair the owner shoud not have to pay more. Conversly if a qualified and experianced mechanic can finish the repair more efficiently he shoud be compensated accordingly.

Quote: Mazerbase

When flying with small children the switch became part of my procedure while deplaning. Curious minds and small fingers are attracted to unknown switches. I find it absolutely unreasonable that a "Qualified?" mechanic would fail to find it IMMEDIATLY. The sort of thing that a knowledgeable tech should KNOW to check first. WAY to common to over look. If he bills you for his STUPIDITY he is a crook. Even if he was unaware of the switch finding such a draw is EASY. To change the battery just shows that the person working on you plane is a "parts changer" NOT a real Mechanic. I have owned a auto repair shop for 30 years and I fix cars for a living. If one of my techs made such a rookie mistake I would apologise profusely for such ignorance and not let you pay a thing.

Early one morning I took off Cenntennial (APA) bound for Florida. Gear up heading SE I pushed in the on button for the Century 31 auto pilot. Finger rolled on the rocker switch and right into the panel with no responce. 2 AM on a CAVU but moonless morning over Kansas. Hardest IFR I ever flew, not a cloud in the sky. Could not tell the difference between a star and a farm house. The switch behind the rocker had broken the solder joint and fallen loose inside. At the FBO in Little Rock I got a guy to resolder the switch back in. Still no auto pilot. Seems something had touched and poped a fuse inside the control box in the back by the battery. When I got to Florida all I could find was someone to ship it off to a repair shop. There are about 10 cuircuit boards inside the controller and a ten cent fuse on an inner board was bad. I knew what was wrong. All they had to do was remove one board and install one fuse. Still cost me over $500 bucks and 4 weeks and that was over ten years ago. My wife did get pretty good at holding couse and altitude that trip.

When I call my CFII for my annual ICP it is just between the 2 of us. The FBO/flight club he works out of is not involved. Insurance is not an issue. My insurance used to require an IPC every year. They dropped the requirement after 2 years but I still like to do it just to keep safe.

Rocket supplied a telescoping towbar with the converion. A longer one really helps. My MSE has the stock one and Longer is better.

Quote: Shadrach

The only 520 in the Mooney fleet are the Rockets but the TSIO520NB @ 310HP is different beast.

That is spooky too. Is there a proof positive way to confirm that our bottle is correctly filled with O2 rather than compressed air?

Only one wing attached to fuselage. Fluttered down like a "helicopter" tree seed. Landed in a great big tree. Broke apart over 25,000 feet high they figured.

It depends. On short or local flights it is strapped down in the luggage area. On solo flights where it may be needed it is on the RF seat. With two or more in the cockpit it stands vertically on the rear floor between the seats. If I anticipate it's possible use the hoses are attached before flight. If I know I will use it I wear the cannula before roll out. My last plane was turbo and had onboard O2. I still kept a backup handy. A backpack for the passenger seat would work quite well if I had one. On one flight my passenger fell asleep early and weather kept pushing me up to stay on top. At FL190 he awoke and was funtionally unable to put on his O2. Never put it where you cannot controll it. Know YOUR early symptoms for hypoxia. In the heat of action you might find yourself climbing higher than planned and forgetting all about the O2. There are many warnings we all need to understand in this crash report. #1 don't trust the O2 supply trust your body. #2 people react in widely different ways to hypoxia. She got confused and sleepy he died. http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=38638 It doesn't state it in this report but 21% O2 is compressed air.

Quote: flyboy0681 My Lord, 20 gallons an hour in cruise? Is the increase in speed and extra maintenance really worth it?

My longest leg was from Denver to Cincinnati. 950 nautical. Took off 100 usable planning 20 gal hr/200 kts in a Rocket. Initially I had a strong direct crosswind and had to pull back to 15 GPH to maintain a reserve. Once the crosswind turned into a tail wind I saw over 300 groundspeed and landed with lots of fuel. A 5 hour planned flight stretched out to 6 hour enroute but ended up under 4 hours in the end. Took off with a 15 min reserve and landed with well over 1 hour fuel onboard. YMMV don't try this westbound. I have found tailwinds Always less than advertized and headwinds always greater.

Quote: Shadrach

Quote: jax88 Parker, I have plenty of stories like that. . . what amounts to a couple of years of my life spent in the Comfort Suites in Winston-Salem, the months I spent in Motel 6 just outside D.C., a solid month at the Hilton Gardens just north of the airport in San Antonio, weeks of corporate apartment in Phoenix, . . . I'd still rather be in the Texas Hill Country. I take my aircraft to Dugosh for obvious reasons, but a not so obvious reason is that I think the more I make my co-pilot drive out there to drop me off or pick me up, the more likely she is to one day say "Randy, I love it out here in the Hill Couontry, can we sell the house in the city and move out to the country?" Wish me luck.