Buster1

What's going on Controller? The same plane is listed twice, once by Owner, another time by All American...for two grossly different prices? Makes me glad I didn't buy it off the first guy for $15K more. http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1982-MOONEY-M20K-231/1148024.htm http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-231/1982-MOONEY-M20K-231/1166550.htm

Carl, good luck! It's been great corresponding with you on our Mooney hunting! I hope to follow you soon, keep us posted on how it's going!

ATB, How are things in Morristown? I grew up about 20 mins from there. I think the answer to your question of why the planes haven't sold is the Economy. I really do. Both look nice, with your aforementioned pros and cons. The F with damage and the economy will keep that one on the market for a while. While I agree that previous damage, if fixed professionally is an okay thing, I personally believe that damage history is a detractor. I am combing the 231 market and have my eyes on quite a few in there. There are some that have damage history, even many years ago, that have been on the market for a long time. The NDH 231s that are out there seem to be moving along decently. It's an investment. Some are okay with previous damage, some are not.

Saw that too, very good.

Tower would have told you to taxi after that if someone was on final? They can come out and move the plane for me. The LAST thing they teach us is to worry about other airplanes out there if you have the emergency (within reason of course). They can go around, land elsewhere, or divert. That's why we fly with reserves. I can't stand when a tower or controller tries to "fly my plane for me." Not gonna happen with a $30 Mil F-16 or my rental Cessna. My tire is blown, I'm not going to jeapardize further risk or damage by moving a stricken bird.

What speed were you at? How did the Mooney handle when it happened? Was it controllable, rough, etc? Any advice? Glad you are okay.

In looking at 231s, I've never really considered any Mooney Rockets. I read somewhere that the fuel burn, OH costs, and weight of the oversized motor were all problems. So I dismissed the Rocket. What are your thoughts? Is this a 'good' plane. Is this a better way to avoid the problematic TSIO-360 GB/LB found in a "standard" K? What are the considerations for a Rocket?

UPDATE: Well the Broker emailed back and said the seller would take the plane off the market for me for a non-refundable deposit. Much as we expected. That is a smart move for him for good business, and I understand completely. I will not be sending him any money. Now, I guess I'll play the waiting game. Hoping for the best with our home sale, home buy, and move. And I'll be crossing my fingers that this bird will still be there when I'M ready. Thanks for the great advice. Nate

Nice job, she looks great!

Thanks for the advice guys, thanks for the PM Carl. THIS IS TOUGH. I've set my sights for my Spring Plan (my Spring Offensive if-you-will), and financially I'll be better then too. The house should be sold, and we should also be into a new place and settled in. I'll have more cash on-the-ready by then too. With all this planning, it sucks to seem to find the right bird now - early! Great advice, I am getting emotionally involved, and I haven't even seen the plane first-hand. But the promise that she is meticulously cared for is luring. The broker, who seemed really honest, even said he would bet that a PPI wouldn't find much to fix...it's a pampered plane....arggg. The wife agrees with you guys...we need to wait. I think our current house will sell in time, and we'll not stretch our budget on a new place in Vegas. But the possibility of carrying two mortgages AND a plane deal would break the budget. I am hoping for a fast sell here. We go to Vegas in 2 weeks to house hunt, maybe we can move quickly on something down there and wrap this house stuff up. Additionally, I did email the broker and 'offer' to work a deal with the seller based on timing. I basically asked how he would feel pulling the plane off the market, but didn't offer a deposit. It doesn't hurt to deal and talk, we'll see what he says. I'll let you know. Thanks for reigning me back guys, and slapping me with some common sense. I'm just getting too close to my Spring Offensive, and getting jumpy. Nate

Is it okay if I'm not a fan of the dentist??;-) Though lately, he's been giving me high marks. Nothing personal Lew!

I don't know what to do...we'll I know what to do, but you know what I mean. Today I called a Broker and discussed a Mooney I have had my eye on for sometime. It is meticulously cared for, low time, all the bells and whistles I want, sweet interior, and 'just seems perfect.' Perfect paint (in my eye), great panel and avionics, it's got everything, and is NDH with full logs. I think this is the one! I want to fly out tomorrow and go see it and test fly. Obviously, I will follow the steps of deposit, purchase agreement, PPI, escrow, etc, etc...but I have fallen in love. My dilemma...I can't buy right now! I need just a couple months. My financing is almost ready, insurance is a go...but I am selling a home, moving and buying a home...all right now! I just can't take on the risk of an airplane loan if this house doesn't sell and I have to carry it and a new mortgage at the new locale. What do I do!??? I don't know if she'll be on the market in two to three months time!

Great news, congrats! Would you care to post a review of your buying experience, lessons, gotchas, etc? I think I'm just 4-5 months behind you.

Guys/Gals, I have no experience with aircraft ownership at all. I am narrowing my search for the right 231 and have been researching options with a few that are out there with engines at or near TBO. What is your recommendation in possibly doing this? I realize that I will be quickly putting a "new" engine in. If the price is right on the bird, and the PPI comes up clean, seems like a no brainer for me. Additionally, I've got a few rough numbers on OHs but haven't actually called Penn Yan, Willmar, etc. Say I buy with the intent to immedately OH, where would take my new Mooney to do this. Any recommendations? Thanks.

Congrats! Glad to hear everyone is Code 1 (no squawks or issues).

Any experience with this decision? I am looking at a few birds with various avionics. Some have no "glass" at all, and I wonder, why spend $10K+ to upgrade to a G430/530 when I can get a 696 and panel mount it? Is the main difference that ability for the 430/530 to have WAAS and shoot an approach? Thanks.

Congrats, a big milestone indeed! My advice (given to me nearing the birth of our first child)...on the way to the hospital...safely run a red light! If the wife is in labor, you've got a free chance to do it! You'll get a free police escort if they pull you over! We did it on the way to the hospital when my wife went into labor, but it was 10:30 at night and no one was around for miles, but it was still fun! Good luck!

I am narrowing my search on 231s. Hopefully the few I am eyeing will be around in a few months when I'm ready to pull the trigger. Anyway, I have built a spreadsheet on each plane and it's details. After that I have another spreadsheet that calculates monthly cost based on 100 hrs flow a year or 150 hrs flown a year for the different airplanes. I found that after Loans, Fuel, Insurance, Maintenance savings, parking, and engine OH savings...that two of my prospect birds have THE SAME monthly costs. One is over $100 K, and the other is in the $80s. The expensive one has a low-time engine, and the cheaper one has a mid-time engine. The loan amounts are countered, or offset, by the engine OH savings projections and come out within near dollars for a monthly estimate. Thought that was interesting.

Curious, what do 231s have for steps? Fixed?

Has anyone else seen the movie? What an incredible piece of work, I loved it! The effects and animation were astounding. Bravo James Cameron. I do have to say it was a bit political, but none-the-less a masterpiece. The flying scene was something to behold, I will not soon forget that scene. One of the best! If you haven't seen it, GO NOW!

Whoops, thread hijack warning. Just an etiquette thing. JMHO.

Here are my monthly estimates from my spreadsheet for a random 231 (prob a little more expensive than what you are looking at). $350 loan $158 insurance (100k plane, full coverage) $100 sunshade at KVGT $650 (150hrs/yr at 13gph+$7800/yr) Those are my OUTGOING 'must pay' estimates, below are my pay to myself SAVINGS: $500 maintenance ($6000/yr $476 OH planning (1000 to TBO) All this equates to $1255 a mo going out, and $976 I need to put in an account. Maybe slightly less if the account is earning interest every year.

Any hints so 231 lookers (like me) may avoid this one?

yep!

Merry Christmas! Glad to be home for this one!