Ned Gravel

Ashe: I am not from around there, so no help to you in putting you in the cockpit of a short body, but..... since you ask..... E's are faster than F's because they weigh less on the same engine. 'nuff said....

We call it Remembrance Day in Canada. Everyone wears a paper poppy on their jackets from 1 November to 11 November. The poppies are distributed by the Royal Canadian Legion (veterans organisation). Ceremonies in almost every village, town and city from coast to coast such that the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month is opened with a moment of silence. The poppy comes from LCol John McCrae's poem: In Flanders Fields. I spent 22 years in the Canadian Signal Corps and I was lucky enough to bring all of mine home. I have friends who commanded that were not so fortunate. We, who have worn uniforms do not normally weep for those who have passed, but for the ones they left behind. Except today. Today we remember them.

John: The other potentially unresolved issue from your post is the glaring need for access to someone who is not going to keep your airplane for 70 days to fix small issues.

I also support the "leave-it-on" chorus here. I know that the rubber boot and the spring parts are unique to this retractable step, but it is an elegantly simple solution that works for this engineer. Up in flight and down when the engine stops. What a concept!

Quote: Piloto For $50 more you can get a Vertical Card Compass with no leaks problems. I have one and love it. Easy to read even under heavy turbulence. Easier to calibrate than the wet ones. Strongly recommend it. José

Ken: Thanks for the clarification. What I thought was 100 degF LOP was near the edge of the engine beginning to act rough. Now I know that the current point for that to happen in my engine is closer to 70 degF LOP. With some slight changes in setup and matching of injectors, that will improve. I do not have fuel flow, but it is something I want to add to my JPI.

Found part of the problem today. Long story short, my M12D quit on final to duPage yesterday. Today on the way back to Toronto, I discovered it was an intermittent circuit breaker - but I discovered some other things while flying with one radio and the handheld hooked up as the backup. The compass error was reduced to 15 degrees. Something in that portion of the avionics tray (or the breaker section) was inducing a magnetic field that the compass was reacting to. So I tried some things to see if I could reduce (or increase) the compass error. With that breaker pulled and that radio off and the pitot heat off and the landing light (the kind that only draws 8 amps) off the compass error disappeared altogether. When the breaker was reset, and all the goodies back on, the compass error was reduced to 10 degrees (and back in the realm of the acceptable). So it all comes down to a 45 year old breaker. I am buying some new Klixons this weekend.

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OK. I finally did it!! Took off from du Page near Chicago for my trip home today (near Toronto, Ontario) and when I was finally released to cruise altitude of 7000' I decided to try LOP for real. I had previously tried it but the engine always went really rough on me. This time it worked and I learned a few things. First, I set up LOP at or below 70% when it is much easier to slowly go through peak EGT and determine the numbers myself (I know that the monitors all do that, but the process was not making me feel comfortable). At 7000' and pulling 2500/22" is shown as 72% BHP in my owner' manual (POH) so any reduction in any of these two parameters will keep it below 70%. At or below 70%, I am told that I do not have to worry about the Red Box where internal combustion pressures will hurt the engine. Here are my numbers with Peak EGT determined to be 1480 degF. 7000' 50 degrees LOP as determined by Cyl 4 Cyl 1 Cyl 2 Cyl 3 Cyl 4 EGT 1467 1472 1440 1433 CHT 313 291 325 289 7000' 100 degrees LOP as determined by Cyl 4 Cyl 1 Cyl 2 Cyl 3 Cyl 4 EGT 1417 1437 1394 1383 CHT 305 285 316 268 The engine sounded only slightly less solid than it does at or beyond 70 ROP. But it did not sound rough (Finally!!!!). I lost about 2-3 knots indicated for 50 LOP and another 1 or 2 for 100 LOP. I should have made careful measurement when I filled it up to leave, but I did not know I was going to try this. I left the tanks an inch below the caps when I filled up to leave and attendent filled them up all the way after I landed. I should have payed more attention, but the result was 33 gallons for a three hour flight. So, slightly more than 10 gph. One observation was the extreme sensitivity of the reference cyllinder's EGT mixture knob inputs when lean of peak. Quarter turn and I was down 30 degF on number 4. Another is that once the system is set, it will wander as much as 15 degF up and down without making any changes other than direction (no altitude changes). Mind you the QNH varied by as much as .4 inches during this flight. I was travelling from a lower pressure area to a higher one. Way forward? Do more of this. Get up. Get settled and when it is safe (70% or below with all other parameters operating nominally) rotate the mixture knob through peak. I have also been told that peak at altitude is "best power" mixture and I am OK with this so long as it is not in the Red Box. Feel good about this. Been wanting to do it for some time. Just need to see a start point that did not make me worry and when I recognised the condition as less than 70% BHP, it all fell into place. I also think I may end up swapping some injectors to even out the temperatures a little more. (Next annual). This is me saving gas money now.........

Mark: If your smell detector did not tell you that this was oil when you cleaned it up off the floor, then I tend to agree with the other posters' comments. From the colour of stain on your belly panel, it looks like avgas. Good luck with this one. Hope you find it.

Jolie: Did you get your baffling redone?

Quote: DaV8or

Dave: On my 65 E model, the cowl flaps are flush to the skin when closed and about 4 or 5 inches away from the skin (at the aft end) when open. I think yours are pooched. Linkages, or cable or something.

Quote: piperpainter I don't see why you have to put the ring like under the wing? I have normal bolts that go there. Thats how it was when I got the plane and it looks fine and I have a strap connected to it, looks good like anybody elses would!

Ashe: I am with Parker on this one. If you treat the engine well, keeping internal combustion pressures and cylinder head temperatures within reason, and IO 360 will go as long as an O 360. You need an engine monitor to do that, and you have to be disciplined in your engine management technique. My own engine went for overhaul at 1941 hours, just shy of the 2000 TBO, but that is because I did not appreciate these things until the last 150 hours or so of its life. For the 150 hours previous to that, I was pushing the ICPs and temps with bad baffling and unknowingly agressive mixtures. Before that (<1640 hours) it was someone else doing the same thing. Hope this helps.

Ashe: I own a 65 E model and I fly in the yellow arc all the time. I heard that the 189 mph VNE was based on the fact that the FAA inspector did not want the test pilot to go any faster than that speed during the certification flight (process??) and that is where it was marked. Not certain about the veracity of that story, but it is a cool story. The other story is that the engineers ran the tests and they figured out the flutter conditions and set the VNE somewhat below that speed. In later models some changes were made to some parts of the structure which modified the expected flutter conditions, upping the VNE. Again, not certain about the veracity but it is a cool story too. I have had mine cross VNE twice in level flight near 5500' at WOT and 2500 RPM, before I caught it and pulled the MP back a little. During 500 fpm descents in calm conditions, I am pulling about 20 inches MP and the airspeed indicator shows between 175 and 180 mph - indicated, not true airspeed. I am not certain I would cross VNE on purpose - just not wanting to push things, but my airframe can easily approach VNE in level flight at given altitudes. If I had the financial wherewithall, I would mod like stink (including the Lopresti cowl etc) and it would be even easier to do. Remember, we are Mooney drivers. Speed is not an important consideration for us - it is the ONLY consideration OK, maybe not, but going fast does give us bragging rights....

Bryan: I pulled my carpet and there are about eight places where an appropriate bolt could be used to replace one there and affix the D ring for straps. Clarence has done this before so it is not really a big deal, but the drawings sort of call for the same type of ring as the old tie-down eyes under the wings and I do not want that on the floor of my baggage compartment. I want the type that everyone else has, nice and flat to the floor and connected to good webbing straps for cargo. Just got to do it right, though.

carusoam: My 65 E does not have tie downs, so if you know of a 65 model that does, I would appreciate some photos. That is a relatively easily rectified issue. So long as the hardware meets spec, of course.

Just adding to an older thread. It is now 7:00 am and in preparation for a morning's work prior to picking up my best friend to fly for about an hour (OK maybe 35 minutes with today's winds) I had a look at the weather for a flight from Toronto to Ottawa to get there near 3 or 4 pm, and have dinner with colleagues before tomorrow's delivery of training. Instrument rated so, in-the-soup is OK. No CBs along the route so OK. But this is the first time since April where I will have to modify travel plans because of icing. We will probably not fly today and drive the 4 hours instead. If the winds weren't so bad between the surface and 4000' AGL, I might have stayed below the deck, out of the moisture and below the freezing level. But moderate mechanical turbulence is predicted the whole way (surface to 4000' AGL) so the choices are to get iced up, or get beat up. Some of my decision aids attached. Sheesh....

I, too, am with Richard and Scott. Manual gear and flaps. Love 'em. Pack those into an airframe with the 201 mods that F comes with, and the panel it has, and even I would consider an F. Even one with the twisted wing.

This is just me being arrogant. E's are faster than F's. Nuff said. For these two, however, I would go with the F, for the same reasons articulated so far. One caveat is that I think it was the 67 F that has the infamous twisted wing which will rob a few more knots from its speed. To the good: the panel is almost a 201 panel and it has serious engine management tools (VM-1000). But here is the real reason I like the F over the E (in this case). It still has the manual gear........ Way cool. Hey!!!! I'm a manual gear guy.....

Double post

I just tried it myself. Firefox will not allow pasting of graphics into the text. On my Mac, Safari does allow this. Who'da thunk it?

I second your welcome to the Mooney Family. Looks like you will be challenged in getting all the kit you need to fly out of Goose. Crossing the Gulf of St Lawrence, just to get to Halifax will require more safety gear than I carry, that is for sure. I ran into a fellow in Fredericton, who often flies his C (or E) model to Wabush, so he is not too bad off for logistics. My mission profile is not quite the same as yours, and I can live without the turbo and the TKS, although I would like to have both. I do not know who, on this forum, has a 252 or a Bravo, but I am sure that one of the good folks that do will let you know. Have you had a chance to read the Pireps on various Mooney models at http://www.mooneypilots.com/logsample.html? The one on the 252 is at http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K252_evaluation_report.htm. Good luck on your search. Post pictures when you finally put one in the stables.