carusoam

Time to switch up the Avatar! You have earned a real mooney.... Good luck with the weather getting her back home. GUMPS, GUMPS and GUMPS again....... Best regards, -a-

From Dan at Lasar.......regarding the tie down / jack points... Still available.... $35.00 for the set for the wings. Dan

I look forward to finding the MooneySpace family out there somehow.... I had to back out of the Caravan list due to scheduling difficulty, but I am still committed to camping with the M20R... I'll have to hang a sign on her carusoam@mooneyspace.com ....... See you there.... Best regards, -a-

Ryan, When I first got my 65 M20C, it came with an owners manual. It was more of a pamphelet extolling the virtues of Mooneys and how smart I am for owning one. POHs were not a government requirement until a few years later. Bill Wheat at Mooney Aircraft Company can point you in the proper direction of what POH to purchase. Since the M20F was built way into the 1970s, bill may suggest picking up a more recent POH. All of the modern requirements of performance and emergency procedures will be in the "modern" POH. You will probably want to have one in its printed form to stay in your plane. Best regards, -anthony-

CRXCTE, Things to consider...... After all of the super sleuth work that you have completed, I am going with the sensor not working right at the hot end.... The temperature gauge is simply a voltage meter (calibrated in degrees F) reading the voltage difference across the variable resistance of the sensor, using the electricity provided by the ship's battery. [1] Broken wire would give a constant reading. Maximum resistance = maximum reading. [2] Shorted wire (crossed) would give the opposite, but constant reading. minimum resistance = minimum reading. [2a] No power to the gauge is certainly going to read minimum. (no voltage difference) [3] Sensor is of the variable resistor type, (thermistor). Resistance increases with temperature. [4] The sensor seems to be working, but improperly. Shows cold when cold, but shows well over heated when hot. [5] If the oil was really that hot, you would surely notice a significant drop in oil pressure. A thermocouple type thermometer from a cooking store would help you understand what the real temperature is. [6] The gauge itself could be at fault. The gauge is in the nice environment of the cockpit. The thermistor is in the harsh, hot and vibrating environment of the engine. Lastly, you may also consider that the full battery voltage may not be getting to the system (least likely, but something to consider). See item [7] battery voltage is delivered internally through the cluster gauge connector. [7] Super lastly...The indicator is reading a collective resistance of all the wire, connectors and thermistor. If the connectors have increased in resistance for some reason, the indicator will change as things warm up and then go off scale. There are two connectors to check, one at the sensor in the engine and one at the back of the instrument cluster. (this would be your lowest cost fix) Disconnect the connector, use contact cleaner, reassemble the connectors. [8] The battery voltage isn't running incredibly low is it? This would cause a whole new set of issues anyway... That's why I vote thermistor being most suspect, gauge being the next and wire/connectors being the third most suspect. Best regards, - anthony - PS. I looked up the part number for a 1965 and 66 mooney M20C and E. It is listed as bulb, oil temp AN5525-1 Aircraft spruce lists a similar one (possible identical) for $145 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/oiltempgauges5.php If nothing else, check this website. It will give you a good idea of what you are looking for.... Jose: does this look right to you? PPS: The EGT is a thermocouple and does not look or work anything like the oil temperature sensor, other than generically it has two wires going into a metal sensor..... Best regards, -a-

Let me be the first on MooneySpace to say congrats on the PPL and first Mooney in one week. (unfortunately, I can't help with your instructor request). Best regards, - anthony -

There are two human errors that seem to come up in training. [1] Have you ever pulled the red knob on final approach in place of pulling the throttle to idle? That will get your flight instructor's attention. [2] Have you ever forgotten to switch a VOR or GPS source to ILS (and confirm) for the final approach? Easy mistakes to make, do whatever it takes to keep it from happening (again). I see you have a real turn coordinator, standard altimeter and a hole bunch of instrument lights also. Very nice..... -a-

I recall somebody having a visor that was mounted to the center post..... Best regards, -a-

Go see Brian... http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=1150 Check out piperpainter in the photo gallery.... Enjoy, -a-

Dav8, You're very right, somebody did spend copious amounts updating the panel to get far away from classic...... While you are selecting your new throttle control, check out the following thread. http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=876 It's time to decide whether or not you like the vernier type or the regular/push pull..... It seems more people like push/pull, RFB and I like the vernier.... Best regards, -a-

Check out the link from John Paul Townsend at GAMI.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEyYFsn2tjg If I understand correctly.... [1] GAMI states that the new fuel will contain more power per gallon than 100LL (no statement of density comparison) [2] They show it flying in an SR22 with turbo charged engine (I believe to be Continental TSIO-550). Pretty harsh environment... [3] Very nice instrumented engine test stand. Also get a read on AOPApilot cover story...There are some details about Continental TSIO 550 - K that is 94UL friendly... 94UL is stated to be 100LL with the LL removed. The turbo charger that is used in the SR22 comes from GAMI (Turbo Alley). (I'm not done reading yet.....Just more fuel for the fire of this thread) Best regards, -a-

Nice numbers Randy. No matter what fuel we are burning it will be market driven pricing unless it is used by the masses such as diesel or MoGas. Alcohol died down significantly with the end of the Bush administration. Turning food into alcohol turned out to have unintended consequences. Price of grain became highly inflated, feed for livestock went the same way, price of food increased significantly. Percentage-wise Huge amounts of food were being used for very small amount of fuel. Alcohol, as indicated by Randy, is very corrosive and has significantly less energy per pound. Anything that takes away useful load is usually unpopular in aviation. Alcohol also has the ability to carry water with it. If it were a drop in an entire tank, this is a good trait. If it adsorbs as much water as it can, you would be getting a few percent watered down fuel (more pounds, less energy). A final thought: I wouldn't mind low power fuels at altitude so much. However, I would be very uncomfortable with low power fuels while screaming towards the end of a 2,200 ft runway. Best regards, -a-

They've got you surrounded!!! -a-

If you are taking it apart anyway. Get a good look at the connection to the throttle. Looking for wear. Throttle cables are known to let go (in all types of planes), the power on our mooneys will fail to idle..... Consider a change to new while you are doing it. You will probably get the blue red black combination of standard controls..... Or just leave it alone and call it a classic mooney.....somebody before you did it for 40+ years...... -a-

From our friends at GAMI who are working on a new fuel..... Anthony, We have an unleaded 100 motor octane fuel. G100UL. We are actively waging certification with the FAA right now. Thanks, John-Paul John-Paul Townsend - Sales/Support Manager General Aviation Modifications, Inc. john-paul@gami.com toll-free: 888-359-4264 ph: 580-436-4833 x1005 fx: 580-436-6622 www.gami.com

While you are thinking about the engine and it's octane rating and whether or not lead is needed... Other things for your consideration... The tank sealant, and all of the seals and floats from the tank, through the pumps then into the fuel injection or carburetor systems. Then think at what altitude you fly at. Avgas does not evaporate with the same pressure that moGas does. Overall, You will want your new gas to not dissolve away your sealant or swell your seals, and at the same time you don't want it to vaporize in the fuel system before it's supposed to. And of course, you don't want it to detonate and damage your pistons. Mogas in NJ this week $2.60 Avgas $4.00. There is definitely some room for invention. Any fuel engineers on the board? I know there are couple of us in the fuel and oil industry..... Check out what the good people at GAMI are working on for 100LL fuel replacement and electronics that work with MoGAs http://www.gami.com/prism/prism.php. Best regards, -a-

Russ, If you go to Thunder bay, don't you expect some lightning to go with it? Please post a picture of a wooly bugger... -a-

Welcome to MooneySpace... Look around, enjoy and as the thread says...Introduce yourself. I saw URS W give an introduction on one of the other threads, so refloating this one seemed like a good idea to me.... This thread was started in 2008 by Adam V. Best regards, -a-

Stuff to consider.... [1] An average M20C flies at 150mph. - pretty quick... [2] At 2,000 hours, that engine has dragged the plane 300,000 miles. - pretty far... How far do we expect it to go......? What will fail first....? (crank, cam, seals, block, etc.) What accessories can we do without? (fuel pump, carburetor, govenor, magnetos, cylinder assemblies, etc.) Can we start a meaningful oil analysis program now? There are many things that can get old and worn.... If you replace all the questionable items, one item at a time, you probably have replaced all of the items required for an overhaul. I might be with RJB on this one ... The core is usually a valuable commodity for a rebuild. (slightly more positive than "worthless") -a-

721lp, Do you still have the small filler pieces that cross behind the blades? Are they whole? It seems prop hubs and blades are still an area of trial and error, on top of a great deal of science and engineering...

In the first drawing you have posted above... I am intrigued by the inset drawing indicating Spacer "A". If it is the proper drawing, it indicates a stack of hardware: Screw head, Spinner, SPACER "A", wave washer "B", washer "C", bulkhead, washer "D", nut "E". The second drawing you have posted is the original, short "bullet" shaped, spinner that does not have the internal support that fits snugly around the front of the hub. (This cannot possibly be for your new spinner, it does not match). I think Hartzell owes you the information on exactly what hardware is involved. There should be part numbers and the number of each set of hardware required. I would think that spacers are only required in two or possibly four places for the reasons stated above, not in all places. Again this should not be a guess. I don't think that spacers are standard practice either. Meaning, a trained A&P is not going to see this as an obvious and proper way to mount the spinner. (at least not without the instructions from the manufacturer). Too much risk of new cracks to try something without having the proper knowledge from the manufacturer. Best regards, -a-

Sounds like the alternator is going off line, as if... When starting an engine with a dead battery, the alternator won't come on line... No voltage to the field, no magnetic field generation, no voltage generation... Consider taking a look at or replacing the wires between the regulator and alternator. The M20R has a switch for "alternator field". When this circuit is not connected there will be no generation. I would be focusing on that wire/switch/breaker combination that interupts voltage to the alternator field. You seem to have replaced everything but the wire in between.... (Are you able to check voltage on this wire DURING your next flight?) Best regards, -a-

Stefan, For your consideration..... From the original installed photos... Firstly, Follow whatever the manual says. Let me know if the following makes sense... [1] It looks like there is no spacer under the screw where the crack is. It looks like that screw is holding the spinner dome against the backing plate (somewhate against it's will), the curled edge where the blade comes through is trying to stay off the backing plate. [2] When you mount the new one, The curled edge will be in the same place. The screw will pull the spinner dome metal toward the backing plate. The tighter the screw, the more bend in the metal. This bend will stress the metal at the screw hole. Stresses lead to cracks. Two things come to mind, the curl on the blade hole adds strength to the un-screwed blade hole, so it can't be removed. A spacer will allow for tightening without bending under this adjacent screw. Since the crack on the old spinner occurs in the exact same place, twice. You got two experiments for the price of one. Without the spacer you got cracks. New dome is identical to old dome. I would be thinking the proper spacer in the proper location will keep the dome from bending when tightening. No bending will lead to no cracking. Keep in mind the method used to manufacture the spinner dome leaves the aluminum in a relatively thin and brittle state. Minimizing the stress put on it during installation will keep a crack from initiating. On the old spinners, there were two filler pieces that fit in that area. The dome wouldn't crack, but the filler pieces would. There are many stop drilled spacers on old spinners. Overall: Forces from spinning are tremendous. Avoid any additional stress applied to the metal when tightening it in place. Best regards, -a-

There is only the one vent under the wing. There is no cross-over between tanks. The vent can get clogged by small insects or anything else that can get up inside. A small wire or nylon line should be able to be sent up into the vent to clear it out. Since the cap is not vented, and the vent seems to be clogged, the affected tank is in danger of not being able to feed fuel properly. The vacuum will actually try to collapse the wing skin. It is good to see that your tank does not leak.... Best regards, -a-

I think "green" in green house refers to what is growing inside. In NJ, they use uncolored glass or plastic for green houses. The tinted window is pretty good at reducing the sun's energy entering the cabin, no matter what color tint you select. I think green colored sunglasses were probably popular in the 60's. Shades of gray seem to be more popular today. Fortunately, you can change the side windows yourself. It is not too expensive to experiment. I tried clear for one, and then went back to green..... Now, all gray..... -a-