PTK

Thank you!

The reason we still have stall/spin fatalities in the pattern is due to a lack of proper training in the recognition and therefore prevention. The best way to deal with an unpleasant situation is to prevent it. And to prevent it we must be able to recognize what the airplane will do and when. It is not due to a lack of more gizmos and gadgets.

I find lenses on ebay. Is the numbers display in the lens or is that a separate part? I'm a little confused. Here's an example. Is this what I need Thanks. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/251512297205?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D119331062289_324272%26itemid%3D251512297205%26targetid%3D254284102022%26rpc%3D0.29%26rpc_upld_id%3D79299%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F251512297205%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9003798%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D654061812%26adgroupid%3D35787323751%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-254284102022%26gclid%3DCLC0yJb-nM8CFVU6gQodJbkGhg%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1096527379542&ul_noapp=true

Thank you Sir! Is the display one piece? Meaning the gas discharge part that contains the digits that light up is integral to the glass face we see on the outside? The whole thing comes off? Is tgere anything between display and circuit board? A seal maybe that can get ripped or damaged? Should I try it?

Agreed. My wxperience has been that I would have to be asleep not to notice the stall sequence of events. There's time to wake up and recover between buffet and wing drop. Keeping coordinated here will keep you awake.

I went out to exercise the horses today. Thought about coming to 26N but ended up going to WWD with a stop over at MIV. Now I wish I had come to Ocean City. I would've met you Bob! Yesterday there was a beached whale around Sea Isle which is the next town south from Ocean City. Flew down the coast but was ubable to take pics.

Anyone know how to remove the gas discharge display on a KX165? The 1 looks like a 7 on one and wanted to clean the contacts hoping it would fix it.

My post was directed to say that aoa gadget not needed. But since you asked I am indeed opposed to this concept of promoting steep banks in the pattern and trusting it to an aoa gizmo. An indirect aoa gizmo at that. There's a huge world of difference between a coordinated descending turn in the pattern and a cross controlled uncoordinated turn in the pattern. The latter has a proven track record of increasing the funeral rates for pilots and of their trusting innocent pax. There's a special place, very hot but very special place, for pilots who kill their innocent trusting pax. It also increases the money underwriters have to pay out which of course increases our insurance rates. I'm all for proper education and training. Prevention is always the best solution. Mike thinks his instructors are stupid. All four or five of them! He also believes that most pilots are stupid as well! He has made that very clear. I believe our present teaching model is correct and on the right track. We need to enhance it. Not abandon and throw away the POH. Requiring some aerobatic education and training would be a good enhancement to the ppl curriculum.

You didn't say anything to him when he calls every pilot and four of his instructors stupid, dumb and stubborn! You said nothing to him when he insults and disrespects in the most condescending manner pilots twice his age with 10 times his hours. Pilots who can fly circles around him with their eyes closed. Accomplished safe pilots to him are stupid, old fashioned and oblivious. Now you tell him not to waste his time! I guess you agree with his characterizations! I don't know about you but I certainly don't want my insurance rates going up because of these condescending types who think they know it all while still in diapers. And it will be your insurance too. So if you want to help tell him to sit up straight and pay attention. He might learn something.

Bob, this has to be the most brilliant post in this thread! Pure wisdom! Mike (201er) study Bob's post until you understand it. And put your fingers in your ears to be sure this stays in your head! I also submit to you that stabilized descents and climbs are essentially at 1G. Also coordinated turns in the pattern are at 1G. I'm descending in these turns anyway. So utilize airspeeds in your POH and adjust them for weight. You see Mike, simple. Maybe it's you and not all those instructors you blame!

It's not arbitrary at all. It is very predictable. It's in your POH. I will ask you again: how different is your Vso from what's in your POH?

Come on man! Enough already! I have asked you before but you have no answer. I ask you again: How does your Vso compare to that in your POH? I routinely turn off the runway in ~1300 feet. How about you?

I strongly disagree on both. The reason we teach stalls is not to fully stall the airplane and spin it. We teach stalls to help the student develop a feel and recognition for the airplane's slow flight and stall charactetistics. These are skills necessary to properly slow down and land the airplane. A stall can happen at any airpeed and from any attitude and it is a function of angle of attack. There are way too many stall/spin accidents in the traffic pattern every year. Most are a result of pilot's failure to maintain airspeed. I don't know of any airplanes that stalled and spun when sitting still on the ramp. No matter the slope of the ramp. Similarly not too many stall and spin in cruise. The overwhelming majority of these fatalities happen while maneuvering in slow flight in the pattern.

I'd contact the Mooney Safety Foundation and find someone. http://www.mapasafety.com/instructors Ralph Semb, Jack Napoli and John Pallante come to mind. I personally worked with Chuck Ebbecke when I acquired my Mooney but I think he may have moved to Florida.

I don't think so! You may change your opinion on this if you review the aerodynamics of a skidding stall! A stall is when wing exceeds critical aoa. Different wing shapes behave differently. In swept wings the stall starts at the wingtip and moves inward towards the root. Stick shakers are used to provide feedback. In rectangular wings such as ours it starts at the root and moves out towards the wingtip. In a skidding stall with cross control yaw and elevator inputs the trailing wing starts to stall at the wingtip inward. It behaves like a swept wing because the airflow is not perpendicular to the wing. It meets the wing at a cocked or swept angle. It can snap roll inverted into a spin in a split second without any warning to the pilot. Hence the name "incipient spin." Lesson: Do not skid the airplane in the pattern. It serves no good purpose.

I don't think this question can be answered. By definition a skidding stall may not give you any warning at all as does the straight ahead stall with the classic buffetting and left wing drop. In a skidding stall the trailing wing stalls farther out towards the wingtip. The separated boundary layer airflow over the wing will not hit the elevator giving you the typical warning of a straight ahead stall. So without any of the classic warning the unsuspecting pilot may be expecting he/she continues to cross control away and the airplane will snap roll quickly. Do so in the pattern it's game over. Here's some pretty pictures... http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/slip-skid-stall/

How reliable is your gadget in a slip vs a skid? Any difference?

It's not an act! He is immature! According to him you're blind and if you dare disagree with him you are old fashioned, illogical, oblivious, unaware, an accident waiting to happen and pussyfooting pilot with no skills! No shortage of adjectives! This after he posts video of his botched approach overshooting final and eating up about 1300 feet of runway which he calls intentional "energy cutting." We all have botched an approach and overshot final. But I hope had the awareness to go around and setbup again.

Define "more control". Your own video doesn't support this. I routinely make the first turn off to main ramo at my home field which is about 1200 feet. How much shorter in feet are you landing with your AOA gadget? (hint: In your video you pussyfoot your way through final and eat up more than that in your "energy cutting" final overshoot and landing. Oh...but I forgot that was "intentional" !?) Also you have evaded the question: How different is your Vso you fly with your AOA from what's in your POH?

Yes. Had same issue a few years ago. It was in the gyro. It cost me about 300$. Take it to a good avionics shop. May also want to speak with Bob Bramble, (913)680-4169. Very knowledgeable on King and honest gentleman.

I think we should be able to fly the plane without ASI. I think we should be able to fly and land the plane without the ASI. I cover mine up occasionally just for the fun of it. No ASI and no aoa gadget. And it is a lot of fun. Feel what the plane is doing and fly the conditions. That's different from promoting steep turns down low to salvage a botched base to final turn however. That I cannot agree with.

I'm a bit surprised this thread is still going on. It must have entertainment value! The fact of the matter is that no gadget is going to replace technique and proper planning. It's simple: pull out the POH and fly the airspeeds and the conditions. Keep banks in the pattern to <= 30 degrees, the wings unloaded, stay coordinated and live to fly another day. My Mooney is not an Airbus. My speed and weight envelope is rather small. Mike, may I offer one piece of humble advice. You have developed a pattern from previous posts as well. You are a legend in your own little mind making it difficult to take you seriously. Please come off your high horse. You may be surprised that even you can still learn from the decades of collective experience here on MS. God knows we have enough fatalities in our GA ranks. Certainly we've known personally fellow Mooney pilots who've perished. Please be safe and please remember as Tennessee Williams once said, no one has a monopoly on virtue...not even you!

Trying to save a botched approach by "intentionally" overshooting final and "intentionally" steepening the base to final turn as you have demonstrated in that video is poor and risky procedure. There's no good reason that I can think of to steep banks here. None. What exactly did you gain? Surely not "energy cutting." Wasting 1300 feet of valuable runway is very poor energy management. There's no law that says every approach has to end in a landing is there?

You overshot the base to final and wasted ~1300 feet of precious runway. Do you consider that successful "energy cutting?" (Hint: Many do a lot better than that without aoa gadgets.) I would've thought, especially with your gadget, you should expect to do a lot better than that also. Why didn't you? You have gained nothing in return except a false sense of security leading to wreckless procedure at what is arguably a very critical phase of the flight. That should be of concern.

What is your definition of "energy cutting"? How successful were you in achieving and how do you measure it? Obviously your opinion is that that approach and landing demonstrates "energy cutting". What do you base your opinion on?