Seth

After the Oshkosh prop incident (still need to do the full write up) and then son’s medical issues, I didn’t have the chance to jump on and give a PIREP: I flew down to Elon Aviation at KBUY in North Carolina with a fellow Mooney owner in his 231. We both had commercial ratings so we took their weekend accelerated Commercial Multi Engine add on course. We arrived Saturday morning flew backseat during the others training flights (really helped), and both took our check rides on Monday. We flew a sweet running BE-55 Baron. I was REALLY impressed by the Baron. Really impressed. If my requirements for our next plane did not include pressurization, I’d highly consider a Baron. And I know there’s a P-Baron but I’d likely go Aerostar or Cheynne II vs P-Baron. I highly suggest and recommend Elon Aviation at BUY. GREAT experience at a lower than estimated price. -Seth

Unfortunately we had another setback with my son in early August. He’s doing okay but he had his first seizure. It’s rough brining a bottle to your two year old in the morning to find him mid-seizure. It was his first but he’s just had a hard road these first two years. It took him about a week to return to baseline and now he’s even progressed further. No relapse seizure yet so chances are low he’ll have another but it’s something to watch out for. Luckily, a lot of the bad things have been ruled out and he’s still a happy kid. I have a very supportive spouse and he’s got an fantastic older sister who’s helping him along at every step. So, my time here is still limited. But I do enjoy it! -Seth

This is the other stuff I’m worried about. Thank you for sharing your experience. The nickel leading edge is wider and the paint line further away from the prop edge. It’s still a concern of mine even though MT says it’s not a problem anymore.

Many Rockets have been converted. The person I’m working with at MT would take care of the paperwork to change the Missile Governor to non feathering. Mine would be the first Missile. -Seth

It is a long lead time. Airplane will be out of annual so I ferried it to my Mooney Service Center and that’s where she is now with no prop. The Bravo, TLS, Acclaim, SR-22T, Rocket - all the turbos the MT wins. Its the Ovation and regular SR-22 where up high the additional drag with lower MP is a problem. My chief concern is a few knots of loss in cruise in the 5,000-10,000 range. Glad you’ve enjoyed it on the Bravo!! -Seth

EAA has been good to deal with so far. I’ll include this in a future write up but since this occurred under marshal, I’m 100% covered by the EAA policy. -Seth

Good advice. Most of my flights are step climbs due to ATC up to 5,000-9,000. I rarely fly above 12,500 and will accept speed loss there as it’s to clear weather OR go on O2 for a push of tailwinds (or traveling to the west coast - last accomplished before marriage and kids in 2013). Non turbo - Missile. IO-550 normally aspirated. -Seth

Agreed. However the Missile already has excellent runway and climb performance. This will make it that much better. Faster climb to cruise speed should indeed negate a knot or two or three loss. The aft CG may make zero speed loss or maybe even slight gain in the 6,000-9,000 range in really targeting. -Seth

That is one reason I’m really considering replacing with the MT 4 blade. The 3 blade would be perfect but the shortest 3 blade Nickel leading edge is 77 inches. Mine is 75 now and the 4 blade is 74. I could go stainless steel but everyone at MT is suggesting the Nickel leading edge for numerous reasons including wear and paint peeling.

Clarence - how long ago did your client purchase the props? Evidently the newer harder paint formulas have addressed this but I want to make sure that this was not a new new prop, as that is something I’m concerned of. Especially since it’s with nickel leading edge. The stainless steel has many instances of the peeling. I’m not aware of as many nickel leading edges with the problem. -Seth

I have that built in for talking to them at Oshkosh. Best time to have anything break where you need a deal is . . . Oshkosh except for AOG.

I need some advice from the MooneySpace experts: I'm leaning toward 4 blade MT but don't want cruise speed loss. Would love real examples from Ovation and Eagle owners who have replaced their props with the 4 blade MT. I'm replacing my Mooney Missile full feathering prop with: 1. Exact same prop from Hartzell - 75 inch full feathering scimitar three blade 2. MT 4 blade composite non-feathering 74 inch 3. Hartzell 75 or 76 inch non-feathering three blade I will write up a longer email once everything is done with my insurance claim, however at Oshkosh I was marshaled into an area of mud and my prop was destroyed. The engine did not stop, however there was a reduction in RPM, and EAA's insurance policy is covering a new propeller, engine tear-down, and ancillary costs. Again, I want to keep this thread on point with just the propeller replacement suggestions/recommendations. I will complete a full write up for everyone as to how the EAA has been stand up in covering this as I was marshaled into a non-suitable area for taxi, the help from the Mooney Community (notably Alan Fox, Don and Paul Maxwell, Freeway Aviation, Myers Aviation, Byron, Ken Knop, Ken Yale, Chuck Swim, Erik Bolt, Ron, and others has been humbling - thank you to all). Again, let's keep this propeller focused - I want opinions, suggestions, real data, anecdotal, everything to help me make a decision. Some people I've spoken with have given me a lot of good information - I just have not yet made a decision (life got in the way a bit) but I need to make that decision very soon. 1. Exact Same Prop as what's on there: Full feathering Hartzell 3 scimitar three blade 75". Aircraft should perform the same. -Heavy nose -Prop feathers if prop governor fails -Better glide distance should engine fail at altitude as I can feather the prop: 15:1 glide ratio -Only prop on the STC, no FAA paperwork required, only 45 or so ever made, no used examples available -Hartzel can have it manufactured for me in 4-5 weeks - they have the parts in stock 2. MT 4 Blade non-feathering 74" prop: -Lighter - big issue with Missile and Rocket conversions - will lighten up the nose 30+ lbs. -Lighter - energy to rotate the prop now goes into thrust -Better CG - moves CG after just a bit which will allow the airplane to use less tail force, thus less drag when flying fast, hence ever so slightly increasing speed. -Compound blade to the hub - better cooling, maybe a tad of ram air into air inlet -1 inch better prop clearance and less wight on nose for less likely chance of prop strikes in future -Better takeoff thrust, better initial climb -Faster RPM changes -Smoother, less vibration, less "thumps" as the thrust is now on 4 blades instead of three -Non-feathering - removes the governor oil loss problem -Not as good glide in an engine out -Loss of speed in teens. The normally aspirated engine (300HP IO-550) -Loss of cruise speed at 6,000 - 10,000 feet? Unkown - this is my BIG WORRY -MT overhaul intervals and other problems from before (delamination, bubbles, paint peeling). I'd move forward with the Nickel leading edge which has many benefits and since their last two years of using a cat scan or MRI machine, they are discarding bad wood for the core before it even gets manufactured. Many of their issues are behind them, but I still want to know the horror stories. The nickel leading edge smallest three blade is 77 inches for this engine which is too long.3. 3. Hartzell 75 or 76 inch non-feathering three blade -Removes the full feathering weight off the nose. So lighter than the standard Missile prop. If I can get the same blades 75" as the Missile prop it would preferred off the 76 inch current Mooney prop, but that will lessen prop clearance. Will still give a little weight off the nose compared to stock prop. I'm leaning toward MT 4 blade. I was leaning away from it due to the anecdotal speed loss but then spoke to a Mooney Ovation driver who got one and has data to show he picked up may a knot or two, did not lose speed, runs cooler, and has better runway performance and climb. The Missile already has great climb and is fast. I could simply replace with the same Missile prop. But, I don't need the full feathering mechanism. Erik Bolt and I have talked tremendously about the handling of the lighter nose which makes a huge difference. I also don't want to be scared taxing at Oshkosh for a similar issue in the future. So a lighter nose, less nose compression, and the extra inch clearance are huge to me. Most important is the cruise speed loss. I don't mind losing a few knots above 12,000 feet. I don't go there enough, and I will for a push (tailwind) or to get over weather. Otherwise, I'm in the 6,000-9,000 range most of the time when flying. Will I lose speed here? Tests have shown on a normally aspirated Cirrus you lose speed once over 13,000. However they are more draggy to begin with. So even if it start losing speed at 11,000 on a Mooney . . . how low does that go? Any first hand experience or stories please provide information. I need to make a decision. And yes, it would be the first and only Missile with a 4 blade. Thanks! -Seth

We'll be back at Seahaven. I'm working on the group rate and will hopefully post soon. Update: NO GROUP RATE - they wanted inappropriate concession on our end. Make the best deal you can. See you there! -Seth

SMART MOVE (staying the extra night). -Seth

Congratulations! You are going to love the Missile!! -Seth

They were talking about putting a lycoming or continental in there last year as another option in addition to the Rotax. Not sure where that went, but I'm curious what was decided. So 160/180/200 HP? You've got a little hot rod! Anyone else hear any updates on this? I did find an old email and reached back out. -Seth

Forgot that EPIC said they are on track for an October 2019 first certified delivery. That's amazing. They've been saying this year for years, but I actually think it'll be delivered either late 2019 or early 2020. They may have gotten me yet again with their "should be" delivery dates, but they have some FAA approval already, so it's tracking for October. Who knows. -Seth

That video is absolutely hysterical. Completely didn't see that coming.

Anyone have any Tarragon updates? -Seth

What did those attending Oshkosh learn? So far: -New oil from Phillips -New GPS/Com from Garmin GNC 355 -Tarragon did not officially show but I saw it parked next to Van’s/Sonex -P-82 twin mustang flew (With MT props and hubs, thus now P-51’s have new hubs that can be manufactured by MT) Please add to this list. -Seth

Correct. Let’s not comment here.

The Mooney is very strong.

That pic was with my iPhone. Crap compared to a real camera but I liked that setup too. Each day they did it differently. P-51/F-22/F-35/A-10 P-51/F-22/F-35/P-51 3xP-51/F-22 Sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to oil discussion. How many of you will use this new oil in liew of regular Phillips 20w50XC plus vanguard? Are they stopping Regular 20w50XC? -Seth