MooneyPilot231

That is nothing. It is caused by condensation inside the wing and any 30 year old plane will have that. Really nothing to worry about.

This may seem a stupid suggestion but.....I found my dipstick way off by 1.5 quarts. A full 8 qts was only 6.25 on the dipstick and my engine burned oil like crazy until I figured out that 8qts was actually 9.5! I am sure you have already checked all this but if you don't do your own oil changes you might not know? As someone who has built race engines in excess of 100k I can tell you that compression can be fine and oil consumption can be terrible. It could be burning the oil out from around leaking exhaust valves among other areas. You need to find out where your compression is leaking from during the test. You can do this by placing your ear near these areas. Overflow=rings Exhaust=exhaust valve Intake=intake valves I hope I am not insulting your intelligence with all this. Some people know very little about their planes and others are pretty mechanically inclined. I would find out what is up? Are your plugs showing signs of oil burning? If not, the oil is being burned around the exhaust valves...

Price lowered to 105K. I see no reason at all to add an intercooler to this airplane but it seems to be the first question everyone asks when they call. I will split the cost of the intercooler with the purchaser and pay for the installation! This is one of the lowest airframe time 231's in the country and it will be delivered squawk free to the new owner!

Glad to see someone post about the Continental compression numbers. I bought my plane with less than 200 hrs on a FRME and the compressions were right at 70. My A&P was the one that told me that was perfectly normal for a Continental, especially a turbo charged Continental. (require much bigger ring gaps) It is almost impossible to get my engine within 100 deg. of where it actually runs during a ground run up with the top cowl off so there is no way to get an accurate test reading really. Again, having owned a very high end race engine shop and having built engines making over 1900 h.p., I would like to point out that what aviation calls a compression test is in fact a leak down test. In truth, it almost useless as a diagnostic tool to determine the condition of an engine. An engine with good numbers can burn oil like a bandit and another with compression readings in the mid 60's could be perfectly healthy. I know most people refuse to believe this, but it is a fact! My plane's first engine, the GB model, made 1600 with no top overhaul. Current engine has 400 hrs....

Just a word of caution....My plane was painted a few years back by one of the top paint shops in the N.E. During the next annual inspection they found that paint stripper had found its way onto some the control rods in the tail section. No harm done but the rods did require reprimering as the primer had bubbled. Again, not a big deal but if you have a plane chemically stripped by anyone, take the time to remove all the inspection panels and make sure stripper didn't end up where it doesn't need to be. Can't wait to see pics of the plane....

Here is a link to an article on flying the Mooney 231 by someone that actually knows what he is talking about. This should disspell many of the longstanding rumors and other misinformation about our planes. http://www.avweb.com/news/motorhead/188856-1.html

Went through this also. My plane suctioned to the runway with 10 deg. of flaps and you kind of had to jerk the yoke back to get it to lift off. I ended up moving the trim indicator about 1/8" above the "takeoff" range and using no flaps. With this setting the plane will lift off the runway on its own at about 75kts. Just a little pressure at 70kts and your off with an almost perfect climb angle. Start with the trim set at the top of the "takeoff" range and experiment from there. You might be surprised how much you like it just a little above that setting....

Here are just a couple of pics from the other thread...

My wife and I will be retiring next year and I would like to get the plane sold pretty quickly. If you reference the forum post entitled "the new" you will see the details and pictures of a very extensive annual that I just completed. I have had the perfect ownership and purchase experience and will work with the new owner to make sure the plane is as close to perfect as it can be when they buy it. I have been asked in the past about an intercooler and waste gate. I read all the same internet crap any prospective Mooney buyer reads and having flown the plane 220 hrs in the last year, I see no need for either item. If you are dead set on buying a plane with an intercooler I might be willing to split the cost of purchasing one with you but it is in my opinion a waste of money. The CNX80 is elegible for the free WAAS upgrade and that will be done over the next six weeks. My wife and I love the plane but with retirement looming I need to go ahead and start cutting back on the toys. The plane will pass any inspection by any FBO and I will deliver the plane anywhere in the lower 48 states at no cost to the buyer. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Here are the details on the plane: 1980 M20K (N231PZ) S/N 25-0351 TTAF 2000, TTSFRM 400 TSIO-360-LB1, 3 blade McCauley prop (50hrs on new seals) Paint: 9.5 Interior: NEW Avionics: 10 Extensive Annual completed 7/10/09 with pictures and all documentation. SB208 Compliant Avionics: CNX80 interfaced with HSI and autopilot MX20w/chart view software (Jepps) WX500 interface w/MX20 WSI AV200 Datalink weather interfaced w/MX20 KX 165 nav-Com w/glideslope and King DME Northstar M1 Loran (inop) Century IV autopilot KT36A King Transponder Blind altitude encoder KMA 24 Audio panel PM1001 II intercom w/entertainment input, pilot and copilot transmit Multiport avionics cooling fan system 4 place Oxygen system Additional: Handheld transceiver w/antenna jack Sporty’s SP200 (2) Bose noise canceling headsets Bruce custom cover All logs and equipment books Comments: Painted by Reese Aviation July 2004, Avionics upgrade by Exxel Avionics KHFD August 2003, tank strip and reseal by Wet Wing KFXE August 2003 Price: $105,000 Contact: Paul McCoy Phone: 972-809-0464 Based: KGPM (Dallas-Fort Worth area)

No, plane is for sale. I am just saying that if I ever buy another plane, the annual will done in cooler weather! I need to sell the plane by next spring so I am not in a rush. I hope to get to fly it some over the coming weeks.

few more.... My annual will never be done in June/July again! I lost 11lbs in 8 weeks of Texas heat! Airframe time approximately 2200hrs. Engine has around 400 since factory reman. asking price is 115k. 972-809-0464 Plane is located in the Dallas area.

Here are some more... The fire wall is a before and after shot. Fixing little things like that is why your annual takes 8 weeks!

Well after 8 long weeks of work I have finished my annual on my 1980 Mooney 231. This really wasn't an annual as much as a restoration. I can't thank Phil Robertson of Gulf Star Aviation enough for his help or really for allowing me to help him. I have posted previously that there were some fuel system issues when I arrived back in Texas with the plane last June. I picked it up from a famed Mooney Service Center in the northeast that did the pre-buy/annual inspection. At that time I had the feeling that perhaps I hadn't gotten my $4,000 woth of annual from them. Little did I know just how poor the quality of their work was. When I bought the aircraft it had great paint and avionics. I decided to take the plunge and do the interior while the annual was under way. I found a very reasonable upholstery shop in the Houston area to do the seats and I ordered new carpeting from Airtex. (some of you may remember, I pulled all plastic last year and re-dyed, so that was already done) I spent several years restoring Camaros into show cars and I knew if I ever got started on this Mooney it was not going to be pretty! I am a perfectionest at heart. I pulled the old carpeting out which went pretty quickly except for the floor areas. Those were glued with contact cement so I was left with a cement, carpet fiber mess. Me being me, I took M.E.K. and rags and I cleaned the pilot and storage area floors until they shined! The fumes keep you from noticing the time going by! Pic 1. I removed 30 years of muck and gook from the floor of that plane. Once clean I repainted the areas adjacent to the seat tracks, the emergency gear handle,(new sticker added as well), and the area under the rear seat. (4hrs just cleaning the glue from the floor) The carpet from Airtex is precut and fit perfectly except for the fuel drain between the pilots legs, I had to cut that hole myself which took about 2 minutes. I also had to cut the holes for air vents in the front sidewalls. The carpet went in flawlessly in about 8 hours. I used 3M contact glue front and rear. I deleted the rear area tie downs as they had seen better days. Can't say enough about the quality of the Airtex carpeting, even gave me floormats! The seats came back looking great and I went so far as to repaint the grab handles with a nice glossy black. Pic 3 Even took the time to cut the tape back into perfect squares under the rear seats and wrote on the tape all maintenance that was done under that area. Pic 4 Overall the interior came out really great! Pic 5 Now for the annual part of the annual! I removed the belly panels and all inspection plates myself to save time and money. (Most A&P's will gladly let you do this. Now I know why!) I had made the decision before the annual to treat all parts of the aiplane with Corrosion X. It is a great product and cheap so why not? I won't waste space here with the pictures I took of the inside of the wing. Suffice to say it all looked like it was built yesterday. Not sure what I thought the inside of a 30 year old wing would look like but truthfully, it looked brand new. Pretty impressive when you think about it. When I landed back in Texas with my newly purchased and inspected Mooney I had a brake leak that took some time to figure out. I eventually traced the leak to the outside actuator on the pilots side. These are mini-brake master cylinders under your feet that create the pressure on the brake fluid. We put new o-rings in the actuator for $6 plus Phil's labor and I was on my way. What I didn't realize was that the fluid had leaked back into the rear belly area of the plane. I can't tell you how but it got onto the flap actuator rod which runs between the flaps. It had eaten most of the paint off of it but had kept any corrosion from forming. I could have sanded and primered it in place but that insn't who I am. I asked Phil if he was comfortable with me removing it and he said he would supervise. (labor rate much less when A&P only supervising in 100 degree Texas heat) This required the inner flap hinge covers to be removed which proved to be a good thing. The only corrosion we found during the entire process was on the end of the right side flap actuator rod hyme (sp?) joint. It had some minor pitting in the rod end but I figured for $20 why worry about it so it was replaced. Ultimately the flap actuator rod was cleaned, zinch phosphate coated and reinstalled. Not a fun job but the worst was yet to come! As luck would have it, Phil and I waited for the most humid day in months to have what I now refer to as "The Dirty Day". This is when you jack the airplane, remove the wheels, rotate the tires, repack the bearings, inspect the brakes, replace brake pads, re-install all of the above and re-rig the gear. This was about a 12 hour day with two guys working as hard as possible. The temp was almost 100 and the humidity brutal!!!. In a word, it SUCKED! Pic 6 I have saved the best for last.....Part of the $4000 I paid for the MSC annual inspection prior to purchasing the plane went towards completion of SB508? This requires the interior to be pulled an inspected for corrosion in the fuselage tubing under the windows. They sent me the before pictures which could only be described as rust stains in the primer. Minimal to say the least. They sanded and reprimered all affected areas as well as similar areas in the front undercarriage just forward of the gear actuator with epoxy primer or so I thought. The fuselage yes, the undercarriage, no. It looked like they brushed grey rustoleum on the control rods in the forward part of the plane. They missed as much as they hit and the only saving grace is there wasn't any corrosion there to begin with. Me being me, I asked Phil if I could clean all the parts and then treat them properly with zinc phosphate while he supervised. Those of you who have never seen the inner workings of a Mooney won't appreciat the task at hand. With Phil's supervision I spent 6 hours cleaning the entire front undercarriage with M.E.K. so it could be properly primered with zinc phosphate. I then spent another 4 hours very carefully coating all the control rods, frame members, and pivot points in that part of the airplane with the correct primer. This was 10 hours of laying on my back cleaning and painting stuff that I had paid someone else a great deal of money to do correctly. I then treated every pivot point and rod end in the entire belly with Corrosion X. In the end, the front of the airplane looked like new and I was really proud of how it turned out. I put the sheet metal back on and forgot the picture but those of you who consider yourselves anal retentive would be proud. Most of the rest of the annual went pretty well. I have one cylinder that has compression lower than the rest but it was that way when I bought it and the engine uses 1 qt. every 10 hrs so until that changes there is no reason to worry about it. Phil thinks probably another 200 hours before a new cylinder is needed. Total time on the airframe is now approx. 2200hrs with 400 since factory reman. I am going to put the plane up for sale as my wife and I are retiring next spring but truthfully if it sells fine, if not, I now have an airplane that I know is 100% ready to go. I have added some more pictures and I apologize for this being so long. I will say that I have now seen every square inch of my airplane. I have personally checked it and I know it is right. That is a much better feeling than picking it up from a shop and hoping it is right!!!! I now understand how every system on the airplane works and why it does what it does. I have a totally different feeling flying the plane now, every time I move a control surface, flap switch, or gear knob, I know where the parts are that are making it happen and what they are doing! P.S. I almost forgot the worst part of this entire sage. Pic 8 The spawn of SATAN! The windlace!!!!! I replaced the windlace around the door and baggage compartments with windlace provided by LASAR. (Good quality windlace). The baggage compartment was done last and took about 30 minutes. The door windlace took 4.5 finger cramping, pain my arse hours to complete. I won't even try to describe why this is so difficult because words do it no justice. I have restored cars, built engines costing 100k plus, and this was one of the most tedious, time consuming things I have ever done! NEVER AGAIN! I also ordered the dust boots that go around the gear rods in the wheel wells. I got these from LASAR and have to say at $25 a piece I have never felt more ripped off. They were absolutely a joke and Phil made me set in 45 minutes that were twice the quality of the ones I received from LASAR for $50. Save your money.....again I apologize for the length of this but this was all told 8 weeks of my life!!

I have 130 on the Air Hawks that were installed last May. I just flipped them during the annual and I will get about the same number of landings on them before replacing becomes necessary. I think 250 landings if you rotate them to account for the lean inwards is a reasonable goal.

According to some articles on the MAPA site, the benefit of the one piece belly is nil. I believe that is directly from the test pilot who saw no appreciable increase in air speed. Check all the articles on MAPA website, I am almost positive that is where I read the info.

I wish the flying public understood just how meaningless the differential compression test on aircraft really are. The difference between a reading of 72 and 65 means nothing. Either of those readings could indicate a healthy cylinder or one that has problems. Having built and tested high end racing engines for a number of years where I performed compression and leak down test almost daily, I can tell you the the differential compression test used on aircraft is almost worthless. You would have to have a serious engine condition for it show up on a differential compression test and if you had a problem that big it would be evident in other ways. Turbo charged engines like mine have to run much larger ring gaps due to the cyl. head temps. It is nearly impossible to get the cylinder head temps anywhere near normal on the ground and by the time you get to the 2nd or 3rd cylinder the engine has "unsealed" signficantly due to cooling. Oil consumption and the ability to make proper manifold pressure are a much better indication of engine condition than differential compression. A number of aircraft experts have written articles stating at length what I just said and with a little work on a search engine you can probably locate those articles. Good luck on your search for your Mooney.

I will agree with the above post, MSC's are pretty much a scam. I have dealt with two of them, one almost got me killed, and the other clearly knew almost nothing about Mooney aircraft. I will never understand why people would never dream of taking their vehicle to a car dealership and saying, "Please find everything wrong you can with my vehicle and charge me an outrageous amount of money to fix it", but they think being charged 5k for an annual at an MSC is acceptable. MSC's are in business to charge you as much as they can, for whatever they can. They don't give a damn if you get killed 2 hours after you fly out of their repair center. I can promise you that from first hand experience. It is a shame you need TKS my aircraft has far less airframe hours and much better avionics. To answer your question, I am doing an owner assisted annual now and parts, labor and all will be about $1500. I think a reasonable annual at a non-MSC repair center is going to avg. $2500. It should not exceed that unless you have some unusual parts that need replacing. I do want to say that flying into known ice on a regular basis in a small plane, TKS aircraft or not, is not going to do much for your longevity. A Kingair with TKS and a Mooney with TKS is two totally different things. A turbo-prop or jet has the ability to handle the additional weight much better than a small aircraft. Just my opinion but planning to fly any small aircraft into known ice on a regular basis is not a good idea.....good luck with whatever you do.

I corrected my signature. No one knows what a CNX 80 is so I just say 530. It is essentially the same unit. I can't imagine how I use to find my was around without all this technology.

Guys and Gals, with only 9 months left until I retire from the Fire Dept. in the suburbs of Dallas, the powers at be have transferred me into the training division. This means M-F 8-5 rather than 24 on 48 off. It is no longer feasible to commute from my home in Houston. I am in the process of moving from Houston to the DFW area and as such no longer need my Mooney to commute to and from Houston every 3rd day. This reassignment is forcing my wife of 3 weeks to quit her job and find work in the DFW area as well so we have our hands full for the next few months. She wants to keep the plane but we are headed for Pensacola, Fl. when I retire and a boat will be a much higher priority. I had the perfect buying experience with the previous owner and hope to do the same for the next person. Here are the details: All times approx. TTAF 2000, TTSFRM 400 TSIO-360-LB1, 3Blade McCaully new seals in Dec. 08' Paint is 9 by Reese Aviation in 03' Interior is being replaced as we speak 10 Avionics 10 Avionics: CNX 80 interfaced with HSI and autopilot (Century IV) MX 20 Multifunction display WX 500 Stormscope w/ MX 20 WSI AV 200 Datalink weather interfaced with MX 20 KX 165 KT36A transponder Blind altitude encoder KMA 24 audio panel PM1001 II intercom w/ entertainment input Multiport avionics cooling fan Additional: Sporty's SP200 handheld transceiver Bruce Custom Canopy Cover All logs and maintenance documented Tanks stripped and sealed in 03' by Wet Wing Oil changed 6 hrs ago, new brake pads same time Other: Factory 4 place Oxygen Annual will be performed in June 09' Plane has been flown 220 hrs in the last 10 months, regular use is the best maintenance!!!! I am not in a rush to sell the plane but it would be one less thing to worry about over the next few months. Current VREF is $119,000 asking price is $110,000. Thanks, Paul McCoy 281-678-2373

Sorry, didn't see that you had already made the decision to go with the flat tappet engine. I would feel much safer behind one with a roller valve train. As far as hp increase you could expect about 7-10h.p. increase going from flat tappet to roller. That I can assure you having dyno'd many, many engines....

Let me offer some advice in regards to roller lifters. I owned a high end (25k-100k per engine) race engine shop until a few years ago. Lubricants have changed substantially in the last 10 years and we made it very clear to any customer wanting a flat tappet engine that we would not stand behind the camshaft if it failed. We started using Crane cam lube and pretty much eliminated any failures but the truth is automotive lubricants are designed for roller bearing camshafts. In truth, lubricants have progressed to the point that most engines should last 200k miles. The Dodge and Ford diesel engines we converted to diesel race truck engines were good for 350k+. My point is that lubricants are being designed for roller tappet engines, I would not miss the opportunity to convert to that type of valve train at any cost. I am very surprised there has not been more camshaft failures in aircraft engines. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

I got mine directly from Mooney. Just call them with your serial number. I have no clue what I paid for them but my mechanic keeps one set and I keep one set. I can loan you the section you need if you keep running into walls. I think they were a couple of hundred dollars but that is just a guess. Keep me informed and we'll get you what you need. Never be afraid to call Mooney, they have been very helpful with my questions. May have laid off some of the staff but I bet they would help your mechanic if he gave them a call. I called on a Friday, the tech called me back at 10pm on Friday night and left his home number as I missed the call. He instructed me to call him anytime day or night. I thought he was under the impression I had a new Mooney. Nope, he knew exactly how old my plane was.....really great service.

If Don can't help you let me know, I have an extra set of manuals for my plane and can fed ex you the schematic you need.

Bruce's Custom Covers, he makes wing and tail covers as well as canopy and engine. His prices are reasonable and you can get any of the covers with foam padding to help against hail damage. I think the entire set was around 1k$ if I remeber right. I have one of his canopy covers and it has been excellent....if this was already mentioned I apologize.

Time to start buying parts for the annual. Got the plugs and oil done yesterday but didn't have the air filter bought in time. Where is the most affordable place to buy an air filter for my 80' 231. I also a have a wingtip strobe out that I have been quoted $265 to replace. I will do without strobes at that price. I have not taken the airfilter out since I bought the plane. It was new when I purchased it so I have no info on what is in it now. Thanks for the help...