Huckster79

Thank you! Makes sense!

What’s the reasoning? Just curious-not challenging. I was told to reduce it to “reduce stress/wear” but I’ve learned there’s too many OWT in aviation to accept what I was told without question now that you brought up a new view point.

concur! But I think he can find a very nice C for sure for less than an arrow… my insurance guy recommended Arrow to me when I decided to sell the c140, but most are similar priced or north really of a even a good F… I just couldn’t get excited about the arrow… I’m sure it is a good machine but it seemed like the Skyhawk of retracts to me… doesn’t mean there’s anything “wrong” with either, just no sexiness to them IMO…

Don’t rule out the e,f,g… I really fell hard for the F, she’s slower than a J, but a J just wasn’t in the budget, but I love the extra room of the longer cabin… I can’t say much about the arrow, but I’ll tell ya why I went Mooney after thinking super Viking, Navion, Bellanca Cruisair, older Bonanzas and a few others. My flying hours were c172 and mostly Cessna 140. the Mooney controls are beautiful compared to cabled ones. Shes absurdly efficient! I burned a full 1/3 less fuel than my 180hp c172 friend on a recent trip together and got there far faster, we left an hour n a half behind him, and passed him entering the pattern at his second fuel stop, my first and I only stopped to pee as I was at 1/2 tanks. So not only is her fuel burn great- the fact I can skip fuel stops adds even more speed in practicality. Theres a steel roll cage around my family… that means the world to me flying my kids a lot. 1050 useful load, gives me a 4 adult plane if I don’t top off. manual gear- I love how simple my retract system is, but wouldn’t have ruled one out w electric- I just really like the J bar setup. just a few notes as to why I chose my Mooney M20F

That’s the plan… really was hoping it was just the fuel sender

Just wanted to update you all... Well step 1 done: It is NOT the fuel sender as hoped... It appears the stain begins on the front outboard portion of the tank. It appears its low, as I found no stains on any vertical surface I could weasel the camera into, but that also isn't exhaustive proof either... I was able to chase the stain trail quite a ways with the help of my borescope in a couple of the inspection panels... So my IA and I decided he's going to pull it in the next opening he has, and we will drain it, pop an inspection cover or two and see what we can visually, to decide the next step... Thanks again for all the input and help!

Toughest part for me is this had to wait to Nov in MI… makes hangar work far less pleasant for doing diagnosis, if we repair it’ll go in my mechanics shop but the ahead of time diagnostic work I like to do myself and have him come over so I’m not paying for basic troubleshooting. I Gotta put styrofoam on the ceiling next summer so I can have a hope at some heat…

Oh and Wilmar is certainly a possibility still... All options are on the table, I'm just trying to take a methodical approach. By no means did I mean you were implying that one must absolutely spend the most, none of the comments here I don't believe are really coming from that mentality, even those suggesting shops if its needed. I was referring to folks I've talked to, and a few comments on FB that literally included a line similar to "if you can't spend the money to do it how I would, you need a new hobby" I meant no offense to you, or any of the mooneyspace gang, not by a long shot, so appreciative of each of you that took the time to respond. Wilmar is on the table and if the sealant overall condition looks poor, I'll be getting on the list. But if overall it looks good, I am more of the mentality to repair, but not if it looks obvious that it's a fools errand to repair. And I'm with you if I had the time, facility, proper assistance, and funds I would love to do a restore down to the last bolt, I think it would be very interesting... I've often thought I may try to pull it off when I retire- go get my A&P and rebuild one to brand new for the fun of it. But for right now, I'm trying to find the right balance of downtime, value of the maintenance funds spent, etc. I have a learning curve to still tackle on this bird, and I'm sure I'll make some wrong calls as I learn. I sure appreciate your input, and my apologies if I came off critical of anyone here, was not my intent at all.

Makes total sense, all of that! And yes I think some folks do find a sense of pride out of throwing money at birds just to throw money, and then accuse folks like you and I of "If you can't afford to do it the most expensive way possible, you need a new hobby", as I've heard that line or similar 1000 times. In my maintenance theology I've always searched for the middle ground, I will gladly invest what I need to to keep my bird in top notch shape, so I'm not always looking for the "Cheapest" route, however I am always looking for the best "Value" which may or may not be the cheapest nor most expensive... If my sealant is in rough shape I have no problem getting on the list to get them done right, but if looks good overall I think a repair seems most reasonable. Thank You so much.

I really value all the input from more experienced Mooney folks!!! Thank You all so much for sharing with me! I'm anxious to learn her thoroughly and this is one big step of that being this is my first "challenge" in ownership of her. I knew my little Cessna 140, though far simpler machine, like I know the back of my hand, and over a few years I hope to become just as "astute" in my Mooney knowledge- so I really appreciate everyones input as this is how us rookies become old salts... So thank you to all who gave me food for thought. At this point my plan is as follows: 1. Get in and inspect fuel sending unit to rule that out, or address it if its the culprit. 2. If #1 is ruled out, Open the top inspection panels and assess the general condition of the sealant. If looking degraded then get on the schedule for full redo. 3. Make the plexiglass inspection panels and get it under vacuum and find the issue and make the repair with my A&P, I know they have done some other wet wing work for folks. As even if it looks like it needs a full redo, a repair wouldn't be unwise to do anyway would it? Being the big shops seem to be out quite a ways? Thank You all again!

I've been told its north of 10. I was somewhat hoping for a response similar to yours, as that was already my default mode of thinking, being a Mike Busch follower. I get that he's the engine guy but the "theology" seems to make sense on any maintenance. So I think what you say makes sense, is I need to get in there with my mechanic and scope things out. If its a mole hill address it as a mole hill, if its a mountain address it like a mountain. Several folks have mentioned that this location could also simply be a leaking fuel sender, so again plays into the "don't throw money at it, just to say ya did" mentality. So I'll get in there with my mechanic and we will scope out the general condition of the tank seal, after we rule out the fuel sender, and evaluate from there. I have no issue spending the money if she needs it, but much like you and Busch, if there's no true need to throw money at it, then there's no need to throw big money at it... I know Maxwells did some repairs about 18 months ago at the previous owners last annual, and though I've had no recent hard landings in her, I did this spring getting to know her, the site pic is so much lower than even my lil C140 was I sometimes misjudged my touchdown, but I don't recall any particularly uber hard ones, just some that one wouldn't want to brag about... But sounds like the slow n steady approach to figure out the best solution is going to be the route to go.

I see nothing on the hangar floor either... So I'm not sure...

1968 m20f. Pretty good blue stain under pilots wing. Got some good info from the vintage Mooney fb group- but was hoping for some more in depth conversation on figuring out a “theology” of when to go for a full reseal or bladders vs a patch? how have you all made that decision? I’ve only owned it since April, does one patch for a hoped one off that will hold, then see if it’s just going to be constant chasing? Until one gets to know the bird? I’m nice they start they don’t stop? does it depend on where n how big it is? This is a new area of ownership for me, my old c140 just had plain tanks. So much like deciding when to overhaul… looking for some theories on the “when” to do go all out vs patch?

When I hunted my F, and like you are with the E, I was with the F- it was the model I wanted. I ended up making an excel sheet of all the planes listed that caught my eye, even if they weren’t Uber high on my list. I did a column for engine hours, years since overhaul, avionics, gear puck age, which prop it had, price, Johnson bar or electric gear, all logs, etc. If one sold I marked it as such but kept it. Over my hunt it became easier to quickly identify value.

When do us pilots ever worry about annoying non pilots?

I certainly would contend there is nothing wrong with a slow bird, I was proud as a peacock of my ol 1947 Cessna 140- she was my pride and joy and I traversed this great nation in her at all 90kts… Where it sounds like he took it too far was the “these slow birds are better”. my c140 was the bestest bird I could afford when I got her, I’d fallen flat on my face in life and had to rebuild and she was my first extra expenditure, but 5 more years went on and I wanted more bird… So if your budget allows for a basic Cessna or an old Cherokee- GREAT! If ya can afford a nice vintage Mooney - GREAT, if ya can afford a modern Mooney or a Cirrus- GREAT. what I’ve always disliked is looking down on others stuff… my Mooney is far more comfortable to travel in, hauls more and is fast n efficient like us Mooniacs love- but she can’t to a rough beaten strip like the ol 140. Every bird is best for something…

Absolutely stunning!

Just went on a 700nm trip Tuesday, I do the return tomorrow morning. We flew w friends, he and his bride were in his 180hp Skyhawk, and my bride and I in my m20F (first real trip in her). They left an hour and 20 mins before us. We passed him 30miles out from our planned evening stop point. He about crapped his drawers when he put 15 gallons in, after putting 30 in at his first stop, and I put 30 gallons in as my first fill up. He said “are you kidding me? It costs that much less to fly a Mooney than a Skyhawk? And you beat me leaving later? That’s crazy! I thought you were going to go broke buying fuel w those speeds”. I just shrugged n grinned Oh then I rubbed it in, “well we could have just finished the trip and got gas once there, I was only at half tanks”

So we’ll put. I had the “they don’t belong here” attitude about skydiving operations- seemed to me there’s would be a safer spot to land a parachute at than an airport. Then someone pointed out to me- they are using the airport for a recreational aviation type hobby just like I was… what made me think my Cessna or Mooney had more right to be there than they… They had a valid point. that being said everyone using the airport should be expected to contribute to safe operations.

I think I’d go harbor freight generator and then some good whiskey or cases of beer or sporting events tickets or “I’ll give ya $20 each time ya start it for me”. for someone around the airport to go start it on request

I’m with ya, my first time seeing him he was talking AQP, I thought “wow, great idea, glad this guys really promoting it”. Next thing ya know he’s like than fellow at the bar that knows everything after half a light beer and won’t take the social cues you’re done listening! really too bad, if he wudda stuck on being Mr AQP instead of the train wreck he’s shown himself to be it could have been really good for GA.

I'd go with a harbor freight generator, that way if it walk away you aren't out a bunch... How far is the plane? Could you stop by and start the generator say 5 hours before departure? Cover it all up, prop too for most efficient heating regardless of which heater it is...

I learned that a few weeks ago! I didn’t think it would get hot enough but it sure did… one more fuel injected lesson learned…

Wow. I have a few more hours than you but being all vfr I didn’t think that would make such a diff! I have about 500, 400 of it tailwheel - maybe that helped. I started out at 3400 and after doing a safety training and 25 hours in bird it dropped to like $2700… my figuring is that was double my Cessna 140, as I had a hot for tailwheel, and my annual is double. So for me it was a matter of about $2500 a year hard cost diff… and the extras that can break aren’t always much diff in cost besides the prop and gear. maybe ask Avemco when and what your breaks in price would be like someone said time building is great but after touring the county a few dozen times it’s nice to be able to go… being I have less into my Mooney that I would a similiar time chicken Hawk I went for it this last spring… time will tell if it was the right move but this far I love the bird, I love the steel cage around my kids when we fly, I love passing my buddies drinking less fuel than they are if ya think you’ll keep it a while get a make n model that you won’t have to upgrade from 2 years in… that may be a Mooney for you, may not be…

Don’t sell yourself short too soon.l I think you’ll get more bang for your buck out of the Mooney. My insurance agent encouraged me as a 0 time retract guy go Mooney, arrow or Bonanza. I was able to purchase the most solid plane of the three going Mooney. Besides I fell in love w them. I went w Avemco, they were 1000 less than my broker. My broker had been competitive in my old tailwheel not so w retract. we don’t do GA for economics sake. If you want to fly economically consider a flying club- honest, not snarky. I went w the F, she’s spacious as all get out as far as GA birds go, and they tend to have the best useful load. 1000-1100 lbs. an absolute dream to operate. piper is great if you want a training class bird, and nothing wrong w tgat if it fits the mission. If I was going fixed pitch fixed gear I’d consider them highly as they don’t seem as outrageous as the C brand prices. I love that I have the option take 4 adults and do a 3hr leg that could easily be 500miles w an hour reserve, and when I’m not in a hurry she’s happy as a lark sipping 6.5gph putting around. but it all depends on the mission…