Hair_Helmet

Time flies when you’ve got too many plates to keep spinning… I’d love to see the CAFE get a whole new life, some great points made on this thread.

Great points. Kyle spent this last year working for Ly-Con, it’d be interesting to hear if any changes or repairs have been done to it. Certainly hasn’t seen many hours in the last 7 years.

The bumpy part is the perception from mechanics that the O-360's in the C's are more likely to exceed TBO than the IO-360's in reference to angled vs parallel. Searching for data to support it seems futile, all I could find was feedback from engine shops. Whichever is true I'd like to know and the answer isn't intuitive. I suppose the relevance to this thread is discussing the value of the engine in the CAFE but I doubt it matters much.

Very interesting and well written. It has flown since October without ADS-B, how much I've no idea, and it is still experimental for sure. Great argument on value in CAFE form vs a return to certified. I'd imagine a number of changes could remain with field approvals which is a lot of work for a one off.

They are different cases, wide deck vs narrow deck, different cylinders, etc. I definitely do not fully understand the reasons people say one lasts longer than the other but a quick Google search made me realize I don't have the emotional energy to go down that bumpy road:)

Very true. The owner has the credentials and experience to do that, fingers crossed. Otherwise it deserves it's spot in aviation history.

It had a problem with running lean and high temps prior to switching back to a traditional fuel injection. The custom intake with throttle body injection caused the high temps, otherwise the aerodynamic efficiency allows for lower power settings achieving higher speed. Lower power setting = lower cylinder pressures = longer engine life. But it's still an angle valve IO-360 which some say do not last as long as our O-360's. Probably more to your point is whether or not the cowl design allows for sufficient cooling and that's a good question.

Great points throughout. A number of the speed mods we have were first proven on the CAFE. If it could be re-certified and daily driver capable... maybe 135k-165k? 50 hours on the engine, low airframe time having been a test platform all it's life but also means it has gremlins to work out. Otherwise it belongs in a Mooney museum or part of Don's collection along side the Predator.

I did an interview video a couple years ago with the owner, I bought my 62 C project from him in 2019. It’s on my bucket list to cross the North Atlantic in the CAFE….

What would you pay or speculate it's worth? 66 E with lots of history 160 kts on 7 gph 1000 mile range plus reserve low hours on airframe and engine exceeds VNE in level flight at full power a face only a mother could love....

For those interested, I had a chance to do a quick interview with Kyle as he passed through town. I bought my project ‘62 from him two years ago and he assisted with the restoration. I got to know him quite well in the process and finally cornered him when he least expected it.

I've done a number of trips now at various rpm's, and have been a bit cautious about using higher manifold pressure than rpm; although some say sticking to the square method is an old wives' tale. Maybe someone has some thoughts or guideline on this. I seem to lose 5-10 mph at 2000 rpm depending on the manifold pressure with about 20% less fuel. The sweet spot for speed is 2400 rpm. Smoothness wise it's a great prop throughout the range, but I really need to try a number of settings and record the data.

Couple months of flying this MT has been interesting. I've done a few 2 hour trips dialed back to 2000 rpm, gph drops 20% and 5-10 mph less depending on altitude.

Probably not helpful, but I found it interesting. I just put the MT on my 62 in place of the Hartzell 3 blade. The Hartzell (100 hours on prop/gov overhaul) responded appropriately to rpm drop and was slow but steady returning to runup rpm since day 1. The MT is instantaneous in drop and back to runup rpm.

We saved my ‘62 from the scrapyard last year, previous owner collapsed the gear with a forced crosswind landing. Replaced the left wingtip skin/end rib, right flap, gear retraction tubes, crank gear, overhauled the prop, replaced lower cowl, nose gear doors, one belly skin, pitot tube, complied with AD’s. My A&P/IA did the engine work/inspection, it was in his wheel house. Problem was I went crazy with upgrades and spent a bunch. It can certainly be done for less than 50k and have a great result. I suppose we have to balance practical costs/value vs priceless flying time. We end up paying it forward when the next owner gets a good deal.

Great pictures, Richard... worthwhile thread drift.

Kyle Kennedy bought it, he had been the GM at Lasar before the current owners. We both flew from KLS to Sunriver last summer for the West Coast Mooney event with his Cafe and my new C. He lives in Michigan now, and another former Lasar manager, Chris, is assisting with the re-certification here. I told him next time he's in town we gotta do a video interview on it. Not the best picture but apparently the only ones I took at the Sunriver event. Throttle body injected, custom intake manifold to balance out the flow, high compression, funky cowl with huge spinner.... list goes on and on. He did 200mph IA on 8gph that trip (don't quote me on that.) My C behind his to the right.

That experimental Cafe E is a few hangars down from mine. The owner of the E did most of the work on my C restoration. He's currently going through the long process of field approvals for the mods going back to certified to free himself from experimental/certified limitations.

Trouble is I'm "that guy" who is always late. More speed for me is one part compensating, one part fascinating.

Best bang for the buck, a well maintained stock aeroplane with a good wax job. The curse of the innovator's mind... good isn't good enough. As long as it's balanced by the pocket book, why fight it? I'm sure the last check I write will bounce off my plane.

I appreciate all of the replies. I've read a couple books on engine management but real world experience and guys like you help put things in context. I'll be sure to implement the feedback with a flight tomorrow, schedule permitting. We recently smoothed out the top of the plane, no antennas. Comm to the belly with the less drag bent whip, elt inside the fiberglass dorsal mod. Lookin for a place to put a flush mount marker beacon antenna. Transponder fin will go away once the tailbeaconx is available making for a smooth belly (cept for the 1000 screws.) We've successfully picked up .74 microknots.

I'm looking into the MT Prop, should save 25 lbs or so off the nose, and maybe move the battery to the rear. My wife and I combine for 425-450 in the front seats and that 3 blade Hartzell is a beast. Typically keep 75-100 lbs in the baggage area all the time. Recently did the dual AV-30's (still on the fence about them) and removed 15 lbs of instruments/pump. I should have held off to go with the Dynon Skyview for the engine monitor combo.

I appreciate the responses. -EI fuel flow gauge, might have 5-10% error but hard to say if I fill it to the top every single time. Still, I'm spending a lot on gas. -ported and balanced engine 750 hours -fresh carb overhaul -fresh left mag and coil -electroair for #2 spot -powerflow exhaust, they say it'll increase gph if you don't keep your foot out of it -Hartzell 3 blade, fresh overhaul -201 windscreen -Lasar's half guppy denture -2400 rpm WOT with Autolean at 75 ROP for the last few 3 hour xc, 3 blade rpm restrictions... I'm a bit cautious on the leaning until I get a proper engine monitor and I'm still using the single stock EGT without #'s. Just after takeoff I'm seeing 16.5 gph, I should glance at it next round.

155KTAS @ 13-14 gph but I haven't been above 8500ft since the speed and power mods. I'd hope to get that burn down by 20-30% but I'll need more experience. Hopin for some feedback from anyone who has done a port/balance/electronic ignition/powerflow....

I bought an M20C a couple months ago that had collapsed the gear in a heavy crosswind landing. The plane is in great shape, the fully extended flaps and nose (tail high) took all of the damage. After reading everyone’s comments and seeing how my plane absorbed the energy without dragging the belly/creating heat, I’ll work towards installing bladders.... and hopefully remember to extend the flaps in an emergency while choosing grass if it’s an option.