Fly_M20R
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Everything posted by Fly_M20R
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The M20M's also have the long cowl, just like the Ovation. I never had an issue with the two M's I owned for 10 years. I personally would much prefer lower seating with lower glare shield in the later model Ovations. The extreme of a high glare shield is of course The Spirit of St. Louis. I would have to get a bit of practice in it! Regarding running out of trim in my Ovation it may be due to tail rigging. I'm going to have it checked soon and report back.
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Glad you enjoyed the video Mooneymitch! I do what you do as well: switch to fullest tank prior to entering the pattern. I would have to look at the video, however I believe I just verified it was on full tank, per GUMPS. The least distractions in the pattern the safer one is. I do last GUMPS after I turn final. Same as in an approach, get everything set up over the FAF, including mixture and then just concentrate on needles. We would not be human if we did not have different opinions.
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Then I have a different bird for sure!!
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That is very interesting Angel. Prior to getting the Ovation 3 years ago I had a 2005 Bravo GX also with AC and O2 and after landing the trim was quite higher although not at limit. My Ovation also has O2 although no AC. Prior to the Bravo GX I had a 1991 TLS (same as Bravo) with O2 and no AC and also landed without running the trim to limit. The AC most likely moves the CG aft sufficiently so that one does not run out of trim in the Ovation. Do you land with full flaps or only approach (T/O) flaps? If you land with approach flaps then you may not have to run the trim as much since you are already in a nose up attitude. Definitely like the panel and glare shield height in the O2! Thanks for sharing the picture.
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W&B seems OK. It does "feel" a bit nose heavy. It's possible that Mooney changed some things around when they lowered the glare shield and the CG may have moved aft a bit with newer models. Also, aircraft without vacuum pumps and with G1000's have likely more aft CG's. I wonder if other early year Ovation owners also have the issue of running out of trim or if this is unique to my plane. It also took me a few hrs to get used to having to pull a tad on the yoke for the final 6 inches of the landing. [This may end up being a duplicate reply since the first one does not show up in the thread]
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I would have preferred a model with lower glare shield. However this one fell into my lap with a good panel and a 360 hr factory remanufactured engine at a superb price. It was a "B.B.&B." Questions on yours when you land: do you land with or without speed brakes? I suspect you don't. Do you run the trim up on landing and if so do you run out of trim before you land requiring you to pull a tad on the yoke? Although I've had my pitch trim checked for correct setup at a Mooney service center I have a feeling that I should have a bit more trim up available for landing since I run out of trim before I land. I did not run out of trim up on the two M20M's I owned (also long bodies).
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Out with communism and in with capitalism... AND Mooneys!!! I cannot tell if the tab moves or not and I honestly do not recall if that was a landing with horn going off or not. I would be lying if I said "of course it did" Hahaha!! BTW, landing at night on that runway gets "interesting"... It has lights but somewhat dim easily lost in the background with other street lights and also hidden by the adjacent trees on crosswind and downwind legs.
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Well hello amigo! I am also from Venezuela. Been in the US quite a while. It is an incredible place to visit after comunism falls!!! My M20R is a 1995 and has a higher glare shield that limits the view quite a bit and everybody complained about it. I am not sure which year the glare shield was dropped a couple of inches to make it similar to all the other models but it makes quite a difference. Your landing was perfect and that is how I landed all my other Mooneys including M20M's. This one is just a bit of a pain. It can be done though.... Here is a landing with my M20R on a runway that is not the same as the one on Cozumel paradise:
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From the album: 84 M20J pics
Taken a "few" years ago. -
Pictures taken with my first Mooney.
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From the album: 84 M20J pics
Angel Falls from above and below -
Nice landing angel! What year is your Ovation? I see a lower glare shield than mine. Have you been to Angel Falls? I have a strong feeling you've been there. Lol! The collage shows two pictures, one above and one below, Angel Falls taken from a 201 I owned. Landed in Uruyen shortly thereafter.
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I did a video on touch and go's with rollouts keeping the nose gear off the runway. I thought I would share it with all of you.
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Hi Carusoam, I would say that early on a number of hrs were to take my two kids when young to Taekwondo tournaments in FL, Southeast and a few out West. Then several more to go places w family. A few for conferences related to work, the farther away the better!! A good number to go up and just FLY!! Currently some for work. I make up "missions" to just go fly! Most recently went to Mt Rushmore from FL. At least once or more a year I'll find some long trip to make. I just really enjoy flying!! Wanted to do so since I remember. Regards!!
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Hahahaha!!! One always finds incentives for all sorts of resolutions.
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It does get exciting when one "fat fists" the throttle!! It has happened to me a few times as well.
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Hi Carusoam, It does require practice! At least for me the Ovation has been a bit of a challenge compared to the other Mooneys I have owned. My first landing was awesome and I am not sure if that was skill or luck! After that it took many practice landings with different techniques to acquire the sight picture, throttle control, nose gear off after landing, etc. to get most of my landings how I like them. Still not 100% which I know is unrealistic!
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Hi Midlifeflyer, Once you have mastered it you will be able to do it a lot of the time and it looks like you are a master! Of course there will be landings that you wish no one had seen. It seems that the ones that are really good no one ever sees! LOL!! I like to do it in every landing I can just to protect the nose gear since it is the most likely to have undue stresses on it with the weight of the engine, etc. It also protects the engine mounts from damage. When I purchased my 1995 Ovation 3 years ago one of the engine mounts had a minimal bend on it that at one time seemed OK with the Mooney factory. However, not when I purchased it. Therefore it needed to be reinforced and fixed. A bit pricey but was negotiated into the purchase price. It was most likely due to having had not so smooth landings with either flat landings or some "wheelbarrows" or bounces. I went to an airport with a 7,000 foot runway to practice keeping the nose off after landing on mains for as long as I could. One needs a small amount of throttle to keep speed a bit above 40 kts. It is not easy since small changes in throttle and/or pitch will have a significant effect. One time I flew a 152 to an airport with a 7,000 foot runway with the FBO at the end of it and the tower told me to taxi on the runway to the end after landing. I had absolutely NO patience to putter along taxiing this 152 all the way down the runway after having landed in 700-900 feet. So, right after I landed I just kept the nose off the runway and "taxied" that way all the way down. A bit faster that way. LOL!
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Is that the configuration in which you fly right into the runway? I haven't tried that since I keep 75 kts on final and then slowly reduce power as I am approaching the fence and power off as I start flaring by running the trim. Speed right past the fence slows to 70 as I start the flare. I have good elevator control throughout. Even after landing where I can keep the nose up with elevator until it slows to below 40 KIAS. When I practice touch and goes I most often land power off on the mains and keep the nose up w elevator and for fun roll down the runway some w nose up and then smootly apply power to take off again. Keep on centerline w rudders. You may be having such a steep approach that you are caught getting to the ground a bit faster than you can arrest with the elevator. (????)
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Hi Cruiser, That has not happened to me. As a matter of fact you can see in the video that I am using some small yoke inputs and the nose goes up and down accordingly. I had not run the trim in that landng. As another example, you still have elevator control as you approach the stall in a power off stall in landing configuration. Keeping a bit of power will help in keeping the nose up but you will end up with a longer landing... Chris
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Good comment on the "Lindberg" approach midlifefliyer. I don't focus on it but may be using it subconsciously. The sight picture is a bit different and the impression is that one is still a bit high when in reality close to the runway. So I also found that by cranking the seat a bit lower helps as well. May be forcing a "Lindberg" look.
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Like so many things in aviation its not unsafe as long as its done responsibly, not slipping at to low an airspeed nor slipping in a way to unport a low tank. Its definitely something to be aware of the limitations but not to say one should never slip. You'll still find slipping more effective and precise to make a short approach than your speed brakes and a very powerful too to aid your precision when making an emergency (or simulated emergency) power off landing. i.e. a skill which should be learned and practiced responsibility - not feared IMO. Fully agree with kortopates. A slip on final is no different than the slip (cross control) required for a crosswind landing. If slips were an issue then the POH would also state so and have some limitation on them. There is no limitation for crosswind landings except for stating that 13 kts is maximum "demonstrated". That means that 13 kts is not a limit. Besides, when slipping for loss of altitude one would normally drop the nose some to help unload the wing and maintain airspeed well above any stall. I have done slips in J's, K's, M's and my current R model, often with full rudder deflection. No issues at all. I have tried to slip at maneuvering and cruise speeds and it is practically impossible.
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Thanks guys! I am editing one I did on stalls, clean and landing configuration and with and without speed brakes for both of those. Interesting results... Coming soon...
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Thank you! I did have a few unnecessary pitch inputs just prior to landing but worked out OK.
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Hi Hank! Thank you for the comment re long bodies sitting higher. However, as I said in my post I have owned two other long bodies, a TLS and a Bravo (both M models) and have close to 1,000 hrs in those two. Always had roll-on landings on mains with those two long bodies as with the J and K's when running the trim on ground effect. Just running the trim on the Ovation (at least my 1995 model) is not enough. Need to apply some back pressure on the yoke as well. I did not even run the trim on the video I posted because I was trying out just using the yoke, either because my manual electric trim switch was shot (later repaired) or just to add another twist to landing it. I cannot remember the actual reason. The Ovation does behave differently than the Bravo's, even the speed brakes are slightly larger surface area and drop you at 1,000 fpm rather than 500 fpm in the Bravo. It's a different bird!! Thanks again! Chris
