patrickf

Thanks Anthony, Still working fine, and I do have working versions for the 310 STC and the J's. Need to clean them up and issue. Busy at the moment completing an IFR rating - can't get distracted! @midlifeflyer - couldn't agree more. My sheet uses plenty of significant points to do the calcs but back to one decimal to output - to match the POH numbers. In practice I know a couple of the numbers and go to adjust to close unless I am in cruise and have plenty of time. I do check landing speed, and takeoff distance if I haven't had that config, or that strip before. Then again we aren't the guys that carry rulers onto a football pitch ? regards, and stay safe.

+ another one for those figures. On a trip @ 8000-10,000 I'll run wide open throttle, 2500, ROP leaning on EGT on the climb. Once on top I'll leave it and let it get some speed up then set rpm to 2400 and do a mixture pull to around 12.3 gph (65%) and let it settle down. I'll plan 165 (we are generally ISA +10) but this typically gives ~168kts. If I want to go a bit quicker I'll go to 2500 (+4%) and for more go closer to peak keeping an eye on the numbers. At 8000 + there's not much you can do to hurt the engine as you don't have the MP . I generally leave that mixture setting alone until short final and vary power on rpm or MP. One of our guys does do flat cruise climbs LOP for long trips and doesn't see any temp issues. If I'm on a low level sight seeing trip I'll still pull to LOP but make sure I've only got 22-23 MP. Once set LOP I don't have any issues varying MP and/or rpm and staying smooth while keeping cool.

Thanks for the tip @flyingcheesehead I haven't tried that option but will give it a try. regards PatrickF

You're right there is a fair bit of asphalt on the taxiways but it's not as flash as it looks in Google Earth ! Some of the grass is pretty rough too. We've had a number of conversations and would much rather be on a long bitumen strip. One of the big worries is how those fuel tank seals like getting regularly shaken on the grass. regards PatrickF

All good @steingar - you may have missed it - we have another 4000 ft of grass after the tar before we get to trees. Just a fun challenge to get off and avoid the bounce on the grass ! regards PatrickF

@carusoam - Crossed info - we are at sea level (40') at YCAB ! 800 foot of tar is just enough to get off if I'm solo with about 25 gallons on board - and not much else. And the sea breeze is usually good for a few kts. Grass at 5000' - now that would be a different game ! One advantage we do have here - we are pretty flat. I did the calc at 5000 to check my numbers against yours for the grass chart you have and it seems to match pretty well - which gives me some confidence on the factors quoted on that web site. regards

We operate a long body O2 off grass in Aus. A lot of Mooney guys here would -the tar strips can be few and far between. No real issues except you do lose elevator authority when you get slow so need to get it right first time and catch the mains to look after the front. We have 800 feet of tar on one runway (YCAB) which we take any time we can. Can get off one up and light without using the grass but haven't managed to land on it yet ! I don't have any grass numbers in our POH so when I was doing my XL sheet I used these factors for ground roll - once you are off it doesn't matter: https://www.experimentalaircraft.info/flight-planning/aircraft-performance-7.php - I'd stay away from the long wet grass Anthony @carusoam my numbers come out to close to your book for short dry grass - certainly within the margin for error for the graphical/fat finger method ! Off POH Graph Takeoff Distance 1539 ft Takeoff Dist (50') 2928 ft Surface Dry short grass 1.1 Takeoff Distance 1693 ft Takeoff Dist (50') 3082 ft PatrickF

Guys, I can't argue with X-plane and I've heard it's good. I was too invested in MSFS to change. Since I started flying in '97 (MS95?) I've tried to get a copy of any new plane I've flown, customise as much as I could, and check the basics. Certainly helps with rough numbers and panel layouts etc. Because I was tied to the MSFS world I jumped over to Prepare3D from Lockheed. It is very good and getting better, and I got to keep all my work. For anyone flying Garmin GNS or GTS I can't recommend RealityXP : http://www.reality-xp.com/ too highly - they have an Xplane version as well. Since we bought OVH I've put a bit of extra work to get the sim model as close as I can. This model is a stock P3D Acclaim modified with Mindstar G1000 and RealNAv data, custom performance data and custom textures. As real as it gets ? When the weather is really ordinary I just put in some IFR time at home. Practicing button pushing on the ground in the sim is a lot cheaper than burning gas. The instruments and add on GPS simulators are very good now. My full setup is probably less than 2 AMUs. The real trick is not to geek out too much and make sure you fly rather than fiddling with your set up - a challenge I occasionally fail!

I like where you are heading here @carusoam - start with the book numbers and check against reality given the info we now capture. It was something I remember doing with the instructor in the C150 on about my 4th hour - check short field takeoff against the book. We used the cross runways and taxi entrances as the check points. Having said that a 150, 2 up, in summer in Canberra at 1800 ft elevation gave us plenty of time to check the lift off point ! You've prompted me to check the M20R against the book more carefully. We have a cyclone off the coast so no flying this weekend but I've done a quick desktop check. Our home strip YCAB only has 250m (780ft) of tar before the grass. If I'm one up and only 30 gal of fuel I can just get the wheels off before the tar ends (without doing a static full power, release brakes etc. short field takeoff). The book number on a typical day with 5kts of head is 628 ft. Given that I probably waste 40 ft rolling on and 50 ft with the rolling "soft start" the book numbers look close but a bit wishful - you'd want a good margin on these. PatrickF

Guys, just caught up on this one. Thanks for the heads up @carusoam @midlifeflyer I am happy to generate a set of "Cessna style" tables. Will be pretty easy to pull automatically out of my sheet, and you are right they would be useful. My sheet just does the calcs on digitised versions of the charts, and draws over to confirm visually that results make sense. It is at least as accurate as doing it with a pencil, or thumb. I am working my way through the various models but am way behind on my promise to complete the set - dam work. I've just looked at the POHs I have and my M20J one has the table version rather than the chart. I've attached. Is it an earlier version ? PatrickF

@Awful_Charlie That sheet looks in great shape, I'll cross it off my list. regards

@laytonl Lee, thanks for the shout out. You beat me to it! I have a work in progress J version of my excel sheet and Open App using the same technique as the M20R one. I picked the J as one I had to do on the basis of how many are out there ! - and here in Aus. Have others in various stages as well - gets easier as you reuse the code. @Deb Debbie & David have been unbelievably thorough and helpful with some very detailed beta testing and feedback on the original XL sheet and App. The M20R App changes are live and I'll issue the final updated XL sheet with the rest. @mike_elliott also had got me POHs for the new models and I'm working through them - a fair bit of cross over between models which makes it easier. @carusoam - Anthony - I have a working version of your 310 STC option including the power charts. Just got to smash a couple of pesky bugs. @Awful_Charlie has sent me the charts for the M20M so it's on my list as well. Intention is to get them done as a job lot so I don't do multiple posts but keep to the concept ( in my case) of providing a simpler way to pull book figures (and cross reference original POH charts) Now if I didn't have to work to pay for the Avgas these things would happen quicker ! PatrickF

Harden up Mike - you should try it with 4 kids ! Great to see you out in Aus

Robert, agree - ours doesn’t either ! The aim of my sheet was to make pulling numbers from the POH charts easier to do if you need to and as a cross check. The app does the same thing. Perhaps if I add a % adjustment to the book number that you can leave set, or change ( like I have in the take off/ landing distances) Suggestions welcome. Sorry for the delay -we have our PSP program this weekend in Bathurst NSW. I was doing my homework. Regards

Mike, Saw that one drop on Friday. I think I'll leave that one for the OzRunways boys! You have prompted me to add a disclaimer. I've done the spreadsheet as a way to go back to the POH for a cross check, or the app to do those quick checks. The EFB guys do a great job of the detail planning. Look forward to catching up next weekend. Have a good flight over.

Guys, I’ve made a couple of minor updates to the XL sheet - fixed an error in the off chart ROP MP calc and added QNH in inches for you guys on that side of the big pond. I have been looking at the easiest way to get the info onto a mobile device in a usable form. It was going to take a long time to write, or have written, a native app but I’ve found a clever site from our German friends that allows you to port an XL sheet as an app “wrapped” in their App. Try this link. https://oaa.app.link/Wbv8GfTJ6Q Should work. Haven’t checked but understand it works on Android as well. The first time you click it will ask you to install the OpenAsApp app. Then it should give you an option to open the sheet. Let me know your thoughts and any bugs. Should work well for those quick “how much fuel can I load “ calcs as well as landing/take off distances. Fits on my iphone SE screen so should be better on larger ones. Sorry no charts. Once you have input your own values including BEW and arm use the menu accessed from the top right to save for future. You'll want to change the BEW - ours has AC and Oxy! All sheets take values from the loading on the W&B page unless you input an alternative fuel load, or weight. Apologies but you guys will still have to input load weights in metric. Might do an imperial version if enough are keen. If you are running ROP input values into the LOP page - they are carried to the ROP page. As before happy for any suggestions, or bugs. For the app any changes I make are "pushed". Happy to cut a version for other aircraft now that I have it set up - just need some clean charts, and some time. PatrickF M20R_WandB_PerformanceCharts_rev2.2.xlsx

Thanks guys, hear you on the ios App - me too! I haven't coded in ios but know a few who do so will have a look. With the maths done coding to get the numbers would be trivial for someone who knew what they were doing - look and feel, graphs and pretty pictures are a bit harder I'm sure. Must be an Ovation driver over there somewhere who made their $ writing Apps ?

Update 16th June 2022 Guys, a quick edit to add links to some new sheets for the M20U and the M20K as well as App links for all. Our good German friends at OpenAsApp have been knd enough to give me a professional subscription so I have access to more published Apps. I'm not sure how long it will last after the year but I'll publish these while it does. Update 14th March 2022 Guys, a message from someone on this forum chasing an open copy of my XL sheet has prompted me to issue new versions for M20R, M20R with 310HP STC and M20J which I completed about a year back. I was hoping to add more models but hit a snag with our German OpenAsApp friends changing their model so that I could now only publish 1 App on the free membership. I have been pushing for them to reconsider but without luck. Luckily I still have access to the 3 I'd already published so can cheat a bit and reuse them. I do hope to do more models and if I do I will add here. Links to the tools: M20J XL https://bit.ly/M20J_XLS App https://bit.ly/M20J_OasA M20K XL https://bit.ly/M20K_XLS_Pub App https://bit.ly/M20K_OasA M20R XL https://bit.ly/M20R_XLS App https://bit.ly/M20R_OasA M20R310 XL https://bit.ly/M20R310_XLS App https://bit.ly/M20R310_OasA M20U XL https://bit.ly/M20U_XLS App https://bit.ly/M20U_OasA I am using bitly links so I can keep track of what is happening and easily update in future. Depending on how your system is set up the link will take you to the location in your browser. You can then use the Open button to open in excel, or may have to use the Dropbox options (little arrow top left) to go back to Public folder and download from there. If you do use the App version I would suggest that you also download the associated XL sheet so you understand the source data for details and limitations. Quick Usage guide XL sheet Quick Video on how to use spreadsheet: https://bit.ly/XL_howto Base Information - Update the base information sheet to match numbers for your aircraft. Save a base copy. W&B - fill info into green cells. Weights and fuel load are carried forward to other sheets but can be changed on those sheets. Work sheet_takeoff - Fill in new weight if you need to, and remaining values in green cells Takeoff Table - use to generate a takeoff table. Read the instructions on the page. If you need to reformat copy the resulting table to word or similar and paste as a table then format. Work sheet_landing - similar to takeoff but you will probably want to change the weight to your expected landing weight. Landing Table - similar to Takeoff table Speed Range Endurance - limited depending on model. M20R is fairly comprehensive, even if of limited use. OpenAsApp Great software and very responsive team that have taken on a number of my suggestions. Currently a dead option as the latest pricing has limited free published Apps to 1, and the first tier of paid access is around $90 a month ! I am still pursuing. The first time you click the link it will ask you to install the OpenAsApp app. Then it should give you an option to open the sheet. Let me know your thoughts and any bugs. Works well for those quick “how much fuel can I load “ calcs as well as landing/take off distances. Fits on my iphone SE screen so should be better on larger ones. Once you have input your own values including BEW and arm use the menu accessed from the top right to save for future. You'll want to change the BEW - ours has AC and Oxy! All sheets take values from the loading on the W&B page unless you input an alternative fuel load, or weight. Apologies but you guys will still have to input load weights in metric. If you are running ROP input values into the LOP page - they are carried to the ROP page. As before happy for any suggestions, or bugs. For the app any changes I make are "pushed". THE LONG VERSION (boring bits) History I originally did this as a labour of love to allow easier use of POH charts. Owning the plane made the effort worthwhile. The spreadsheet was built "organically" so some of the calculations and methods are a bit quirky. Purpose The tools are specifically NOT to replace any of the clever Apps out there - just to allow easier use of the original POH data. How I use it: I use the app version for our plane (M20R VH OVH) to check weight and balance, particularly for "full fuel load" if I'm on a long trip. Also handy when you are filling a US gallons plane with liters here in Aus. I use the landing performance page mainly to double check my approach ref speed for the weight and I'll also double check the take off and landing performance and distances if I'm heading somewhere I don't know well, or I know is "tight". Development update (for the geeks) I now use tables for power settings rather than the generated formulas I used before. The Table is in a hidden sheet: "Z_Power Table ..." Newer versions of the XL sheet don't include detailed performance charts as they have limited use and are a pain to generate. In any case if you are like me you get a couple of settings from the book, rework them for real life and rarely go back to the book except if you need a particular setting for a different profile. The older model POHs have tables which are easier to look up if you are really keen. I did the exercise originally for the M20R just to see if it could be done and I very occasionally have a play around with power settings and range - mainly to remind myself why we bought a Mooney, and how much further it can fly past where I need the loo! Addition of generated tables for landing/takeoff - thanks to a suggestion from @midlifeflyer I have added tables for takeoff/landing as well as the original charts. Tables have been left as unprotected sheets or they won't work so take care not to corrupt, or take a copy before you do. The tables are set up as a pivot tables with some tricky data table generation as the source. If you want to reformat the look just highlight and copy & paste to a blank worksheet or other document once you have the info you want. I am now developing all the XL sheets off a common base to save time and reduce errors. It also makes Apps for new models and the updates to the Apps much easier as the same value always hits the same cell across the models. One of the side effects of this is that the newer sheets aren't as "pretty" as the original. In some cases there are unused cells etc. Note the errors made using the graphical method in some of the Mooney base examples - they had fat fingers as well! My graphics are for confirmation only. Values are calculated off formulas digitised from the original chart. Some error but very minimal. (for the real geeks) Workings are in hidden cells generally to the RHS of displayed info, or in hidden sheets. To unprotect sheets - Password YCAB (our home strip) M20J notes Have spot checked against POH 1221 - ISSUED 11-15-77 which has tables rather than charts for TO and LNG at max weight. Values align reasonably well but table values generally LESS conservative for 50 foot distances. You can use the Table sheets in the XL to generate a table equivalent to the one in the old POHs but including varying weights. Have changed the MP value in the power table for 8000/75%/2700 as the value in the published table appears to be an error. (highlighted) Disclaimer I have added POH details and variant as a check against source data These are tools for info only. No liability accepted. I enjoy this but it takes time. Support is very little and sporadic! Thanks to all the members who have provide feedback via the forums and PMs. Special thanks to @Deb and DaveD who did a heap of QA on th XL and App versions. Posted October 13, 2018 I've uploaded this in case anyone else wants to use them. Think they are good for all the M20Rs I generally use an EFB on the Ipad for planning but occasionally go back to the POH for a check, or on review flights when I hit an instructor who insists on "old school". I also find the electronic ones I use don't handle take off and landing distances well either and for longer flights I like to print out all the calcs to cover me legally. I've always found this form of chart a pain by hand. I've been meaning to do this for a while but recently becoming a part owner in a GX2 Ovation meant the effort was worthwhile. Let me know if you find any bugs - I'm sure there's still a couple. If you want to see the calcs behind the numbers unhide the columns to the RHS of the charts. In all cases I've plotted on the POH charts as a cross check. The password is the home of our plane "YCAB" - Caboolture, Australia. PatrickF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guys have had a couple,of people download the old version. Refer my next post below for updated and App. Next time I’ll do it right and modify this one.