DXB

Wow what an exceptional vintage plane. Good luck with it!

All great stuff to work on Hank- minimal experience so far, but I'm already pretty passionate about the plane. I haven't been very high in it yet or done a x-country. The takeoff trim setting seems pretty close for the climb to 3-4k but will pay more attention next time. Hopefully this week if this #@^%# weather lets up.

Yeah I guess by the time I really get pitch and power stabilized to hold 90 at TPA, no time left to trim off control pressure- it's on to the next configuration to descend and add flaps. Is there any point in messing with trim wheel until I get pitch and power stable? Also I've also as yet to have a final that I can get it set up to fly hands free- I always use significant back pressure as the nose comes down with flaps, and I am hesitant to trim it off. This is the opposite the Warrior I trained in. I may be subconsciously nervous that the nose will come up too hard on a go around- is this unfounded, and I should pull the trim wheel way back?

Not an isolated training philosophy. The CFII with whom I finished my PPL in December also was very anti-trim. "You're weak- you just need to pump some iron like me and you won't need it!" The guy had other serious interpersonal problems - should have changed early on, but I didn't know any better and thought the training was good overall, so I would be patient. By the time I got really fed up, I was almost done and so I toughed it out. By the end, I wished I HAD pumped some iron so I could have punched him in the face on the way out the door after my checkride. Vent over...anyway,so I'm not so experienced at using trim. When my transition instructor for the M20C (who is a class act in comparison) tells me to "trim for 90 on downwind" I'm not entirely sure how to do it. I probably should tell him that. Any other tips are appreciated...

Thanks the Mike Busch discussion of red box/red fin was indeed illuminating- very lean at <60% power indeed seems minimal risk. Brings some ROP/LOP questions to mind but I'll spare everyone and do some more reading.

Congrats!! I am not much past where you are in your progression. Got my '68C along with my PPL in December, now 7 hours into complex + transition training. The plane is great, handles beautifully, blazing fast on same fuel burn as the warrior I trained in, or can slow it down to trainer speeds and burn 6gph. Contrary to expectations, really very easy to land. It's maybe a tad harder to keep off speed on final, but not hard. Learning to manage power settings and descent profile with the clean wing have been a tad more work. Still trying to get hang of Johnson Bar, but once the gear is down at 120, it acts mostly like a docile trainer again. The flaps certainly don't seem to do too much compared to Cessna or Piper- I once forgot to push the tab down before working the pump and hardly noticed a difference when I landed unknowingly with no flaps. Carb heat issue seems no big deal- am using continuously starting with descent, unless/until I learn to be more nuanced. Hardest part for me frankly has been managing maintenance questions and sorting out the paperwork, but as an A/P you're way ahead there. Will be curious to hear of your transition progress as I'm dealing with pretty similar stuff....

I also wonder if the cowl closure mods on the guppy mouth planes that so many including myself have can alter temps around the carb enough to influence ice risk in either direction. Doubt it would be enough to alter the carb heat usage recs, but just curious.

Nice discussion to hear for a newbie, and interesting idea to turn carb heat off when rechecking GUMPS on short final, after having it full on during descent. My first practice go arounds in a Mooney recently went fine with turning it off, but in a real world late decision to go around when something goes bad near touchdown, having to deal with only throttle and regaining control could make a big difference. Probably a dumb question, but is there any risk of plug fouling from having carb heat on at descent power settings with rich mixture, or does that really only happen near idle (as I've already experienced during taxi x2)? Continuously enriching mixture with decreasing altitude seems like too much to me, so I imagine folks generally run pretty rich during descent, which is exacerbated if you use carb heat?

Huh- interesting. This reduces my pucker factor a bit.

I had this functioning elevator (empennage) electric trim system removed from my M20C: Aero Trim Electric Trim System 800ET It was installed by a previous owner in 2000 with a yoke mounted switch. It was made by these folks, but is no longer available: http://www.aerotriminc.com/index.html My info and documentation on it is scant, but there does appear to have been a 337 filed for it. It's a pretty basic unit. At my prebuy the MSC mechanic commented that he rarely sees these still working, but mine worked ok until removal. I took it out because it was hooked to the avionics master and made the trim wheel hard to turn by hand with it on and impossible to turn with it off. I figured it was just a matter of time before the thing failed and froze my trim wheel, which is easy enough to manage without it. Anyway, I offer it for the price of shipping in case there's anyone out there who might need parts to fix theirs - I doubt it's worth installing if you don't already have one.

I have no definite answer on this but researched a bit before buying my aircraft and battery model-specific Battery Minder- yes I was annoyed at price too. But I couldn't find any clear indication that it was ok to charge using their cheaper car trickle charger models, or with the other much cheaper brand - Battery Tender. Company claims the other chargers will overcharge an aircraft battery and shorten life - kinda the opposite of what you are trying to do. There are multiple Battery Minder models that are specific to Gill vs Concorde and wet cell vs sealed versions. I actually found the table on their website to help with selection confusing and called customer service to find the right one (i have the older style Gill wet cell). Turns out if I get a sealed Concorde later (which is supposedly superior), my current charger won't harm it but tend to undercharge- this can be remedied by sending it back for them to reset for $75- also a bit annoying. Using the Concorde charger on mine would supposedly trash it from overcharging however. If you decide to get one and have any doubt on the right model, consider calling their customer service to clarify - they were decently helpful.

At my prebuy on my '68C in October last year, it was noted that my biscuits were all original as well. I immediately had them changed out, but I am still hoping for runner up in this dubious contest . Wonder if it had any relationship to the long history of tank leak patches in the log before previous owner gave up and got bladders in 2013....

My '68C is serial #2 for the year, with an airworthiness certificate in Nov '67- it has the fixed step, so I guess there is disparity among the models that year.

Having only flown one other plane (a piper warrior, which is much less prone to carb ice), I'm still struck by how dramatic the rpm drop is in the M20C with carb heat on at run up. I assume we have a more effective heating system given our carb's high propensity to make ice? It still makes me a little uneasy when I turn it on for descent/landing, lest the rich mixture fouls the plugs, or I forget to turn off for a go-around. My MSC prebuy mechanic suggested only pulling it on half way, but I think I'll wait until I have a carb temp gauge until I try this.

What is this step fairing I keep hearing about? I can't find info on it anywhere. I have the '68C with the fixed step.

My sympathies to the OP; with even less experience than his, the situation could easily have been mine as I fumble through my first cold winter starts. This thread, while informative, has left me terrified both to follow the POH and to do anything not in the POH (except preheat- I'm 100% into that!). Right now on cold days I'm running boost pump for a few seconds until pressure needle is in the green arc, pumping throttle 4 times, then cranking immediately. This works 1/3 of the time, but I'm pretty lost on what to do when it doesn't work, and I'm not learning much from the failed experiences. In my mind, some options are: 1. pump throttle again a specified number of times and then try cranking (perhaps also giving me a chance to re-enact the entertaining Piper video above) 2. pump a couple more times while cranking (although this clearly didn't work out for the OP, maybe there's less chance of fire than #1?) 3. don't pump throttle, wait several seconds for fuel to vaporize, and try again 4. pump throttle, wait several seconds for fuel to vaporize, and try again 5. wait for 5 minutes after 1 or more failures (as POH actually suggests to avoid overheating starter), start over either with POH technique or another technique. 6. some other approach I've as yet to envision 7. give up and find a less engine fire-prone hobby, like sudoku or knitting I'd be curious to hear specifically how the experienced folks approach failed initial cold start attempts with the carbuerator.

No Dave just worked it on jacks and then flew it, and it seemed fine to him (and me initially after he looked at it). If this keeps up, I'll have to ask him to dig deeper.

I thought my issue in my original post was solved...but it's not . I had the gear looked at by a good Mooney shop- in their hands, locking the gear down worked fine on jacks and in the air. The next two times I fly it, I agree - no problem - either problem solved itself, or maybe I just got the hang of it. I flew it this morning to continue transition training and did 5 landings. The first two times, there was modest difficulty in getting the sleeve to lock up, but it worked ok. The third time, the sleeve seemed to engage but wasn't locked when tugged down, and I couldn't force it up again- it took another attempt of pulling the gear back up and putting it back down. The last two times, I had essentially the original problem - a huge struggle with both hands to get the sleeve locked up into the receptacle. I can see no relationship to airspeed or my technique as to when I encounter the problem. Pushing the bar forward in a continuous motion without slowing down as it approaches the block certainly seems to help, but that's what I did the times that failed. My instructor had owned an M20C with the Johnson bar for years and is also an A/&P - he is stumped as well. Other than that, the plane is a delight to fly - I'm rapidly learning the speed control/descent idiosyncrasies, and I dare say it's actually significantly EASIER to control in the roundout/flare than the Warrior I used for my PPL training. If I could just get the gear issue figured out!

Thanks I just sent a subscribe email to the group

Yeah am impressed- feels good to have the plane with them. I know where I'm getting my annuals.

Have worked it in the 100 to just under 120 range. Wind makes sense conceptually to me, but POH says easier at higher speeds under Vlo.

Ok I'm feeling like a buffoon now. I got the plane to my nearest Mooney shop (AirMods) yesterday. Everyone in the shop, including owner Dave, worked the gear on jacks today and agreed it felt just fine: "one of the easier ones we've seen". Feeling incredulous, I drove up and worked it myself, and well...I agree it works fine. If I am slow in pushing the bar forward for the last bit of travel toward the block, it is harder to lock it down, but not nearly as hard as I had found in the air, where I have to push hard with both hands on the bar to get it forward to slide the sleeve up. Dave will fly it tomorrow and we will learn if this is really true. It is entirely possible that it is just my own Johnson Bar newbie incompetence (I suspected initially but then managed to convince myself otherwise). At least I'm getting a couple of other annoying squawks fixed by them and my baffling tightened up.

Plane is at KPNE, and I'm trying to stay as close to home in Center City as possible. I've thought about trying to move eventually to S Jersey Regional or possibly Cross Keys but am not too familiar.

I got a T-hangar for my newly acquired '68C- $400. It was the only one available at this "modest" price at my nearest field. No concrete slab- the floor is uneven asphalt- great fun with the tow bar. In a heavy rain, 70% of it is covered with 1-2 inches water, which then turns into a skating rink with a temp drop. Oh, and did I mention there's no ventilation? Condensation settles on the wings and freezes. When summer arrives, with no fans to equalize the humidity, this will amount to parking my plane in a wet sauna after it rains. It might actually be better off outside! I would certainly trade my current situation for a less expensive open hangar. BTW, anyone know of a better available hangar near Philly?

Great topic that I need to learn better. I'm currently trying to update the equipment list for my recently acquired '68C- an eye opening experience. Many changes since it left the factory never made it to the w&b records. Then it was reweighed in '97, which actually shaved off 3 lb. But since '97, what's made it onto the official w&b seems equally incomplete (ignores added electric trim, new prop, a new physical panel, some of the avionics changes, all new interior, new paint). The official record now has only 888lb useful load. I'm hoping to get the panel completely updated soon, which will shave some weight. Would it make sense to reweigh at that point? Seems anything calculated is going to be way off, and given the history, and I'd like to know a semi-accurate weight/c.g. before I start carrying more than just my 140 lb transition instructor.