PMcClure

The FAR's make it the owner/operator responsible for the condition of the plane. Not the mechanic or the previous owner. Selling a plane AS IS with a hold harmless should protect you against claims from the new owner, but not a 3rd party. Nothing to stop a lawyer from suing you anyway and you will be found liable for whatever the jury says. But I still think this is all an extremely small risk as long as you are not misrepresenting the plane or negligent in your actions. Having a MSC do a annual before you sell may put some of that liability on them. But if it were shown that you maintenance work or negligence caused the crash, you may have another party pursuing you. I hire my lawyers to protect me and inform me. But at the end of the day, I just have to live with a certain amount of risk and also have enough insurance to cover those risks.

I agree 100%. All you can do is the best you can to avoid unnecessary risks, and get enough insurance to protect your assets if you have any.

Does the market need another high performance SEL mfgr? I think not. As much as I would like to see Mooney keep making airplanes for the USA market, it seems pointless. But there is a large, active and faithful legacy fleet and a host of STC upgrades. There should be a profitable business model in there somewhere that does not involve making new airplanes for the USA market. The idea of making Acclaims and Ovations for the existing domestic market does not look like an investable endeavor to me. But a parts, refurb, STC upgrade, etc... model seems investable and sustainable. Maybe a $10mm revenue business instead of a $100mm or $1BB. It would require some hard choices about what the new company is and does and a new overhead structure that fits the new model. But there should be a place for the Mooney name in the aviation world for a long time. But if it doesn't happen soon, there may be little left to salvage.

All of us? LOL! We can't even agree how to fly LOP or even if you can sell your plane without potentially bankrupting your future great grandchildren. But a select few, maybe That would be good news. I wish I knew who was involved. Sounds like an interesting prospect.

I read one source where parts was bringing in about $50k per week or about $2.6mm. Maybe I am crazy, but don't see this out of reach for a small committed group to purchase Mooney and keep the parts alive. I don't believe the factory will ever build another new air plane. Not sure the value or cost of keeping the certifications in zombie mode for future plans or acquisitions.

I wonder how much it would cost to purchase Mooney. And how much it would cost to keep the certifications up. And how much it could do in sales of just parts? And how many refurbs they could do in a year and forget selling new single engine planes.

Any cases of just an owner, not a AP?

Owner/builder with no mfg backing it is a very different scenario than a mechanic selling his Mooney maintained to Mfg standards.

Handled properly, I don't think a normal person should not have any concern selling a plane. Sure, some lawyer could find liability and it depends on the state and the circumstances, etc... However, you have to determine the amount of risk, and assets you have and are comfortable taking. I fly a single engine, at night, in IMC and sometimes with passengers, like many others here. I take due precautions in all these situations, but I still take the risk. I have insurance to cover my responsibilities and assets. Selling a plane should not be a high risk endeavor. If you have a lot of assets, get your lawyer to create some docs, and hope for the best. Should we all start tearing apart our planes because of liability concerns? Ridiculous! The OP's concern is his additional liability being his own mechanic. Still have not been able to find any case where a normal owner of a certified plane has been liable for a buyers crash.

Willing to be learn. - Can you point to a case where an owner sold a certified and airworthy plane and was held liable for a later accident and that the previous owner was not guilty of fraud or gross negligence?

I have gotten to where if the weather is bad enough that I can't go, then I don't want to go on commercial either. Their planes are much more capable but the complexity of the environment is so much higher. Delays and cancelations are no fun - private or commercial. The exceptions are probably winter weather conditions where I dare not tread and commercial guys have the equipment.

I have found that I can usually get to my destination within 24 hours of my hopeful ETA. I let my passengers know a few days in advance how things are looking and remind them that the search and rescue is typically done in clear weather the next day. I also book a Southwest refundable tix for business trips and have canceled them with my engine running. I may plan a trip 2-3 weeks ahead but without any real expectation of completing it on an exact day. 1 week out I can improve my guess. But 2-3 days out is when I can make a call if we will make our plan or not. Then allowing 24 hours of flexibility, I bet I have a 98% success rate.

I found the same thing - and had similar issues with my 550. 3 or 4 different A/P's could not correct it and all but one was unaware of SID 97-3F. I took it to TCM in Fairhope whom greatly improved the situation by doing the proper set-up. But ultimately, I had to rebuild the spider valve on top of the engine. New plugs and wires is not a bad suggestion either. I did all of that and have not had any issues since.

My thoughts - a normal owner has little if any liability selling a plane as is as long as he is not doing anything fraudulent. The A&P has liabilities beyond the owner. Negligence or fraud would create liability as long as your signature is in the book. As an owner, I would not worry about liability after I sell the plane. As an A&P, I would worry about liability on every plane I signed off on over the years, including this one. Insurance? Having a 3rd party do the next annual seems excessive to me. Buyer beware right? I would sell it as is, without any warranty and go spend my money on the next hobby. But I would consult my attorney and insurance man about how to deal with the liability of my A&P previous activities after retirement. Not a lawyer, not an A&P - just a business owner and PP.

I have A/C (necessity in Alabama!). I say omission, because with a service ceiling of 20,000' you must have O2 to get there. FIKI could be a limitation for others, but I would rather have the weight for passengers. The Inogen systems are an interesting option. But considering I would need two, the cost comes above a portable and almost to a 4 place built in system. They would be great for a single pilot or passenger the moves around from plane to plane. How do you value the Pb option? @carusoam I will look again at the portable systems. 02D2 seems an obvious option. Thanks again for all the suggestions! Any other advice welcome.

Noted on the pulse ox meter. I'll order one. And thanks for the suggestion on the concentrators. That would help, but wouldn't be legal as a O2 supply? Would help with the comfort issue, I bet.

The main goal of O2 is more comfort than flying in the flight levels. My wife does have problems in commercial flights. Besides falling asleep, she gets headaches on many of our XC flights and also on long commercial flights. We have used O2 before so I know it helps her. Also for me, I know I am more alert and refreshed on 02 on long flights, even below 10k' feet. But we also are planning on doing more travel around the USA now that the kids are almost self sufficient and we have more time. There are times and places where flying higher is better. We discussed buying more plane but ultimately decided that 51K is a perfect XC machine, but would like to upgrade the avionics and have oxygen. Basically, making the plane we want rather than buy a new one. Built in vs add on - more preference than anything. I really don't want to put a tank in the back seat and have hoses running everywhere. But I could compromise with a tank in the baggage area as long as the the install looks professional. Any pictures would be appreciated.

If I have it, I think i will use it most XC flights. So, 50-75 hours a year.

War Eagle! BSME 1992 Wife, brother, 3 children, niece, nephew future daughter in law all went/go to Auburn. All in

My Ovation 2 does not have built in oxygen, which seems like an obvious omission that limits the plane's capabilities. That said, I typically fly on the east coast and 6,500 to 9,500'. I am very comfortable below 12k without O2. But my wife passes out above 6,000'. With upcoming flights between Dallas and Alabama and aging, I am thinking about adding 02 for both personal safety/comfort and performance. I would prefer an installed system over a portable system. MH only does the portable systems for certified aircraft. I found Precise Flight has a certified system, which they say is basically the OEM system that Mooney put in factory installs. https://www.preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/kit/built-oxygen-system-mooney/ A few questions: Any other options I am missing? Any experience with Precise Flight? Anyone purchase this system? Pictures Their system is 77cu feet? I think the Ovation install has 115 cu feet. Enough? Any recommended training resources for high altitude flying/ O2 systems Any picture of installed systems in Ovations for a go buy if we install this system? I had O2 in my Bonanza before but only used it a few times to go over Atlanta space and out west at 10k for comfort. Thanks in advance.

I saw the pics of Don Kaye's Bravo. My application will be a little different in the Ovation panel and keeping the legacy GTN 530/430 for now. War Eagle - technically, it is Go Tigers! But we have a lot of strange customs.... Kevin knows of a Jake but not sure - typical engineer I guess. We are proud of him; he has a visual impairment and had to work hard to get this far in life. Lots of answered prayers to see that kid start a career and live on his own. He was my first passenger as a new pilot and also my 1st passenger in my 1st Mooney.

Sounds like a solid recommendation. I'll discuss this with the shop.

Hi everyone - just wanted to update you on 51K. I just passed 7 years of ownership with this bird. My oldest son graduated from Auburn and moved to Dallas and started a career in Civil Engineering! Whoop whoop. Momma sees lot more trips to Dallas in coming years. Once recent return trip was 2.5 hours to East Alabama! What a plane (and tailwind). No wind, it is a 3 hour trip to McKinny airport. But the roll servo on my KFC 225 went out (again) in IMC. These servos or the King 256 AI go out like clock work every 2 years. I hand flew the plane with no issues but my wife noted me fighting the A/P before disconnecting and asked me about the issue. It lead to a discussion and new plan for the G3X Touch and GFC 500 Autopilot upgrade. We are doing it locally at Holder Aviation (KPLR). We will replace all the steam gauges with the G3X and keep the G500 for back-up. I have a GNS530w/430 for com and nav. Current panel pix here. We will also replace the EDM 700 and Moritz gauges for the integrated engine monitor on the G3X. I will post some pix during and after. I have read through the threads here and took a lot of good info. Let me know if you have any personal recommendations based on experience with these systems. One question is where to mount the GFC 500. I don't think there will be room in the KFC 225 slot.

For my 2002 Ovation 2 with steam gauges and A/C: My annual is typically $2000-2500 per year. Base price is $1800 plus any squawks. Never any expense with the A/C in 7 years of ownership. But I keep expecting From a previous plane, I recall the O2 required testing every 5 and 10 years for pressure. But don't recall anything else. I plan on $100 per hour in direct costs, $200 for all in costs (including depreciation, insurance, etc... but not major maintenance). Who knows what it actually costs, I try not to add it all up! I fly about 50-120 hours per year. Other than the engine, the biggest maintenance cost is the KI 256 AI and KFC 225 roll servos. Plan on $2000-4000 for each of these every 2 years.

Joey at Cole Aviation did my pre-buy. He as very easy to work with and did a good job. Even thought me how to land my new to me long body,