Poor stall instruction plaguing GA?

[Super Dave]

BTW, another thing I've noticed. The airspeed indicator appears to lag during takeoff. Has anyone else noticed this? After I rotate and begin to climb, it may say 80 knots. However, the climb rate isn't appropriate for 80 knots. Nor is the angle of attack. The angle of attack indicator shows me being slower than this. But as the plan accelerates, the angle of attack and climb rate will improve all while maintaining 80 knots indicated. I don't really know how to explain this situation better but I've noticed it regularly and this is why I sooner trust the AOA shortly after takeoff than the ASI to keep me from hitting a departure stall.

I'm not sure i understand exactly what you are describing, but the ASI has no lag. What sometimes appears to be lag is actualy the airplane slowly accelerating. The ASI is giving you an instantanious read of a laging airplane. The VSI on the other hand, does lag behind. So if you are seeing say 300FPM as you are beginning your climb out, the airplane may actually already be climbing at say 600FPM.

As far as the disparity between AOA and airspeed, maybe what you are seeing is a result of the little bit of "G" that comes from establishing your climb. Just like an airplane in turning flight require more AOA for a given airspeed. An airplane at lift-off is "turning" away from the runway and would need a higher AOA for a given airspeed.

[jlunseth]

I think the failure in instruction and indeed in some of the "mantras" about how to fly that we read in aviation columns, starts even before stall instruction. The speeds we are taught to fly during crucial phases of flight, particularly takeoff and landing, are too low. The stall speed of that Skyhawk you were talking about was mid-40's. I have on more than one occasion observed instantaneous airspeed drops of 10 knots or greater due to gusts and wind shear. So why anyone would ever fly within ten knots of stall speed, let alone train others to routinely do just that, is beyond me. I want at least a 20 knot margin. I realize there are occasions where shortfield technique is called for and where airspeeds should be lower. These are maximum performance maneuvers in my mind, and the pilot must observe airspeed early and often during the maneuver.

The other is routine landings and the turn from base to final. And the problem with instruction there, is that we are taught to fly patterns that are tight to the point of being unsafe. What invariably happens, and APS has some great video on this, is that the pilot finds he/she has underestimated the wind, gets blown through the final approach course, maybe has a parallel to worry about, and so steepens the bank, and when that does not appear to be doing enough, puts in some rudder to bring the nose into what looks like a better alignment. These are the classic ingredients of an accelerated, cross controlled stall at 500 feet above the ground. They happened because the pilot flew too tight a pattern. My pattern now, after many landings, is a minimum of 1 mile from the airport in my Mooney, and a mile and a quarter is even better. I also keep my airspeed up to at least 85 kts., and 90 is better, until established on a straight line final. Look at your stall charts, in my aircraft, even with flaps deployed, if I manage to steepen the bank angle to 60 my stall speed is in the 80 - 90 knot range. I want a safety cushion, and thus fly all these maneuvers at 90. Plenty of time to get the airspeed down on final.

[Greg]

Jim,

Yes, had to get the nose above the horizon at least 30 degrees then no problem right or left.  Really interesting was simulated base to final tried twice and it just wouldn't roll over but I was only pushing the rudder to the stop.  So the third time I sort of punched it with my foot which swung the wing back and over she went.  Caution!  You should only have 1/2 tank of fuel on only one passenger along.  Keep it in the utility catagory weight and the instructor said that only certain year models were approved for spins. ( I haven't checked his claim out ) but just some things to be aware of if you are going to try this.

Greg

[midlifeflyer]

Sure, you can use my post. It's taken me many years of improvement to come to terms with these issues but I feel responsible and educated enough at this point to make my mistakes public so others may learn from them. Like I previously stated, without the extensive experience I have gained since, I could not have even have begun to understand my original mistakes.

 

Lots of instructors/books "talk" about stalls. But few enough actually make it happen. I hope you can mention that the most disappointing thing I found was in retrospect was that I was only taught 2 stalls and that they are the ones that don't really happen. 

 

Thank you. There's a couple of items the local FAA folks want discussed but beyond that, it's more or less my job to direct the discussion if it bogs down. The use of demonstration stalls, accelerated stalls and secondary stalls beyond the two private PTS stalls is already on the agenda.

[Scopes]

This may be a dumb question, but regarding the AOA sensor part being installed only on one wing is that an issue in situations where you are dealing with one wing stalling eg in the skidding turn to final? From what i understood from the APS video, the skidding turn alters the stall characteristic of the wing that has become more "swept back" in it's relation to the airflow resulting in stall occurring from wingtip and progressing to root (opposite to what should happen with our stall strips); if your AOA sensor is on the outboard wing to the skid can it detect this situation developing?

P.S. i don't post much (new pilot) but learn tons from you guys

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD