Questions on M20K/252/Encore

[carusoam]

The Bravo has it's own forum because a respected member/Bravo owner requested it.

With the large population growth on this site we have achieved the level that we should probably increase the number of forums to include Ovations and others...

Good luck reading ALL of the posts...

Best regards,

-a-

[BrianNC]

Quote: gjkirsch

The Bravo is a long body Mooney (same airframe as Ovation, Acclaim, Eagle, Porsche) with a turbocharged lycoming engine versus Continental and modified car in the rest. 

[BrianNC]

Quote: BrianNC

 

I see you have a Bravo. Could you compare that to the Encore for me? Speed, fuel burn, etc. Same speed basically but higher fuel burn for Bravo? Isn't the Bravo 280hp compared to 220 for the Encore (just trying to remember what I've read off the top of my head here)?

[carusoam]

Brian,

With the Bravo, you get

(1) high altitude performance by turbocharging

(2) most comfortable cabin as in the L,M,R,S,TN

(3) lower acquisition cost compared to the TN Acclaim

(4) Pick your favorite engine manufacturer: Lycoming vs. Continental

(5) Pick your favorite departure attitude/temperature: Normal aspiration vs. turbo

(6) Pick your favorite cabin capacity: Big vs. X-large

Typical answers....

Ovation: Favored by pilots not flying in the Flight Levels

Bravo: Favored by pilots flying in the Flight Levels

Acclaim: Favored by pilots with wallets in the Flight Levels

Encore: Favored by pilots with Flight Level flying aspirations at lowest operating costs.

Newer is often better.

That's my understanding of it.

Best regards,

-a-

[BrianNC]

Thanks for the clarification carusoam. I definitely don't have a wallet in the flight levels, hence the "Flight Level flying aspirations at lowest operating costs" approach. : )

[AndyFromCB]

Being a Bravo owner for about 5 months now, I'd say we burn about 4 gallons per hour more for same speeds as 252. What we get in return is a never ending climb rate. My airplane performs considerably better than the book in both cruise (not much) and climb (200 to 300fpm than book at published weights, book at our regular take off weight of about 3500lb). I'm not sure what the critial altitude of the big lycoming is, but I've never seen it yet. Being 150lb overgross on take off does not seem to affect anything other than maybe 200 feet more runway needed.

I see 195knots at 17-18K all the time at about 19.5 an hour at 32/2400, 180knots at 14.5 at 28/2200 at same altitude. 205 or so is doable, but takes close 22gph to keep temps cool.

I assume an Acclaim is probably 10 to 15 knots faster but 3 times the cost. I paid 130K for mine, spent about 10K on catch up maintenance. Everything works, 400 hours left on the engine supposedly (case and crank overhauled 1000 hours ago, new cylinders and camshaft at the same time) but 1600 or so since full overhaul. 400 since new exhaust, engine mounts, etc. New hoses at last annual. If I'm lucky, I'll run another 800 hours, if not, Central Cylinder in Omaha quoted me 39,000 with new cylinders but no exhaust so probably 50,000 after all is said and done if I do most of the removal and installation work.

[BrianNC]

I posted a few more question concerning the 252/Encore vs Rocket here:

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=3&threadid=4615&postid=59297&page=1#post59297

[FAST FLIGHT OPTIONS LLC]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

As Scott said, I have a 1987 Mooney M20K. I converted it to an Encore last year. The performance provided by the conversion makes it legal for me to carry a 1050lb useful load.  (The Encore adds 230lbs of capacity).

Some TAS numbers I've experienced while slightly lean of peak:

14,000 - 173 KTAS, 10.9 GPH

16,000 - 183 KTAS 11.9 GPH

17,000 - 190 KTAS 11.9-12 GPH

19,000 - 188 KTAS 11.8 GPH

All these performance numbers are Lean of Peak. It's hard to keep the engine cool at high power settings unless you are LOP, or have the cowl flaps open to a less-than-desirable degree. 

I am absolutely impressed with my airplane and can't see flying anything else at the moment. Another note, if you typically fly down below 9000' or so, your performance will be about the same as a Mooney M20J.

I owned an M20J before my current ship and it's a better plane for poking holes in the sky. But my plane is used for cross country flying 80% of the time, or more. I want to be able to quickly climb above the summer convective buildups to where the air is cool and smooth. The turbocharger helps.

And there's nothing like busting 240 knots eastbound with a kickin' tailwind...

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Well my performance figures quoted are between 30-32" MP. I can get to 36"MP at FL190 while LOP. I didn't stay there long, but I could do it. 

 

Might try it again now that I have GAMIs

[gyrene]

There is a lot of conversation about the 252/Encore conversion but no mention of an STC. I am having my -MB overhauled next month (Western Skyways) and am considering the engine conversion. The folks at Western Skyways say the conversion is simple and straightforward but since they are doing the install they are looking for the STC. Any information/insight would be most helpful.