Feb MAPA 201 Pricing Guide

[mooniac58]

Ok, so I just got the new MAPA for Feb (we get magazines real slow here in Hawaii!) and it has a pricing guide for Mooney M20J and M20K models.  After running my bird through the numbers I was pretty sick at the resulting value.  Using the guide I came up with this:

Aircraft: 1987 M20J 201 "Lean Machine" - Airframe Time: 3800 SMOH: 1700

Base Price: $110,000.00
Discount for being '87 201: $7500.00
Discount for being "Lean Machine": $5000.00
Airframe Time deduction: $10,160.00 (1270 hours over standard @ $8/hr)
Engine Time deduction: $9,600.00 (800 hours over standard @ $12/hr)
No Autopilot deduction: $10,000.00
Garmin SL30 NAV/COM $2,200.00
Garmin 430W: $7500.00
Garmin GTX-330: $2,200.00
Garmin GMA-347 Audio Panel: $1,000.00 (not listed in the guide, but this is the top of the line panel from Garmin)
New Paint: $5,000.00
New Leather Interior: $4,000.00
New Hartzell 2 Blade Scimitar "Top Prop": ???? (no value in guide, nothing for props actually, but cost me $8500)
New Artex 406Mhz ELT: ???? (no value in guide, but cost $1500 with install)

TOTAL VALUATION: $89,640.00

That feels a little low to me just comparing it to other listings I have seen around the internet and such.  I am wondering if the deductions for being a 1987 '201' and a 'Lean Machine' are really a $12,500 penalty.  I mean, the big deal with the lean machine was a less luxurious interior if I am not mistaken, and that has all been upgraded in my aircraft.

Pictures of her are below...

Thoughts?

[Cruiser]

If you are not thinking about selling or buying then these numbers are little more than feel (good)? I know everyone likes to know the value of their planes. In this current environment my thoughts about the declining market values are that the value of my plane has dropped less than the value of my stock market investments. Because the money in my plane WOULD HAVE BEEN in the stock market if I didn't have the plane, then my plane has been a good investment compared to the loss I would have taken if I used that money to invest.

I love my plane.

[RobertoTohme]

Craig, I'm in the same boat as you with my Eagle...  Those things are around 190K these days, but mine, aquisition cost plus upgrades made to date, is hovering around 330K and it's still sporting it's original paint and interior (not bad, but starts to look tired).  P & I is next for me; Who did your interiors?  They're gorgeous!

[TurboExec]

Yeah it is a tough market now....Are the ones you see online at higher prices moving?  I've been keeping track of the F models and it isn't pretty...I have more in mine now than it will be worth, I don't even want to mention it.

[mooniac58]

Quote: RobertoTohme

Craig, I'm in the same boat as you with my Eagle...  Those things are around 190K these days, but mine, aquisition cost plus upgrades made to date, is hovering around 330K and it's still sporting it's original paint and interior (not bad, but starts to look tired).  P & I is next for me; Who did your interiors?  They're gorgeous!

 Aero Comfort did the interior.  They do great work and their service was bar none!

[KSMooniac]

Craig, I think your plane is undervalued by the guide as you pointed out.  No reason to take a hit on the "Lean Machine" option IMO since the avionics have been upgraded.  The P&I additions might be a bit low, too, since yours are very new.  Part of the Lean Machine deduction is for the square windows vs. the rounded ones...purely subjective though.  I like the rounded ones but wouldn't pay much (or anything) to change them on my '77.  The biggest hit you would take is the lack of an autopilot!  The 3800 hrs on the AF wouldn't bother me either as long as the maintenance was kept up.  The engine deduction is fair since you're close to TBO and the deduction is for less than half of the cost of an overhaul.

I don't care to tally mine up right now! 

[RobertoTohme]

Quote: mooniac58

[mooniac58]

KS, that is kind of my reasoning.  I figure it to be worth around $105,000 just based on looking at other listings and comparing.  The lack of AP and the high engine time definately harm the value.  I also have relatively new cylinders that were installed about 220 hours ago...with compression numbers in the 76-78 range on all of them.  I have been doing oil analysis and the metals seem ok in the oil, so being a part 91 aircraft I will likely push the overhaul off another 500 hours or so if everything stays in check on the bottom end.

The aircraft has been maintained very well, especially since I have owned it.  In the past 18 months I have replaced the muffler, exhaust risers, all new plexi windows, replaced the shock discs in the landing gear, new lord engine mounts, upgraded to a Skytec high torque starter, installed brand new magnetos 3 engine hours ago and we just replaced all the engine baffling with some really great stuff that has the engine running remarkably cooler than before.

I am hoping to install an S-Tec autopilot with full GPSS integrated into the 430W within the next year.  This is costly of course, but I really want it before I get heavy into IFR flying.

[KSMooniac]

Craig, you'll love the STEC-30 + GPSS!  Don't forget the altitude hold too.  I have that setup and it makes single-pilot IFR so much simpler.  One other thing to think about...I think the GPSS module is $1500-$2000.  An Aspen Pro unit includes that functionality, so if you have been tempted to spring for an Aspen, you might do that instead of the separate GPSS.

I too would like some more details about your engine baffling replacement, especially the source and the costs.  Mine is original, and has been patched a time or two, and has some cracks.  I would like to stretch til my overhaul time, but if you found a reasonable source for a complete replacement I might be tempted to do it now.  I'm at 1650 SMOH.  Last year I replaced the seals and it helped a little bit with some CHTs.

[mooniac58]

Quote: JimR

Craig, I'm curious about your new baffling material. I just had my baffle seals replaced. They were old and sagging. We used a very well done precut kit by Gee Bee, which is available through Spruce. I feel better now that the seals are new, and they look much better than before, but I haven't been able to detect much if any difference in CHTs with my factory original single probe CHT guage. Can you elaborate on what you did and what your results were? Dead center of my CHT guage is 375 degrees. My 201 tends to run slightly warmer than that in cruise, but its all guesswork without better instrumentation. Thanks! You have a beautiful and very desirable Mooney, by the way. I wouldn't sweat too much what MAPA says its worth. Jim

 I will try to get the name of the material we used.  I can tell you it feels like silicone and is gray.  It was the most expensive of the bunch in the catalog my AP had - but some other hangar folks said it was worth it.  It came in a roll and my mechanic hand cut it all - it fits so perfectly I think you could tip it back and fill it with water

My temps were around 400-420F in cruise - way too high.  Now they are about 35-40% into the gauge - around 330 I am guessing.  Huge improvement overall. 

[KSMooniac]

Ah, you just changed the baffle seals and not the baffling pieces.  I did that last year and used a kit from Mooney that was pre-cut and made of blue silicone.  I think it was about $200 and fits great.

[mooniac58]

The big problem with mine was the back seal was blowing back and folding over towards the rear of the airplane...allowing air to escape back towards the firewall instead of down past the rear cylinders (where my sole CHT probe is).