OP ED-"Little Timmy Wants to Know Why Nobody Likes Airplanes Anymore?

[Guest]

At this rate we'll soon surpass the number of posts in Jose's missing MH370 thread. Anyone know what the record number of posts is?

Clarence

[Tom]

"Tom" You are a coward...Go slither off now....go on...shooo

 

There's just no talking to some people.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

[flyboy0681]

 

There's just no talking to some people.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

 

 

Some are more respectful than others. While my views are often opposing to the predominantly conservative ones voiced here, I don't insult others, or at least not intentionally.

[DaV8or]

I knew there was a reason I have avoided this thread. When it was started I read it on page one and came to the conclusion it wasn't going to end well, so I have avoided it and haven't read 12 pages worth. I decided to check in today since it has now gone on 13 pages. I was right. It isn't ending well.

 

Carry on-

[flyboy0681]

There is a big diference between sharing your views and talking "with" someone vs. talking "to them" or "at them". You are correct AssfromCB/Tom. You will NOT change my views any more than the United States will settle Iraq/Syria/Libya/Palestine/Iran with words...We can talk all day and all night, but at the end of the day, week, month, year, decade, century, millenia only one side will "win".

You are just wrong.

Little Timmy wants change...He just wishes he could vote. I can, and I will.

 

As a moderate, I can - and have - changed my views over the years on certain issues once I took the time to educate myself. It's been my experience that conservatives remain true to their beliefs and won't change their view even when confronted with irrefutable proof.

 

Progressives may pontificate, which to me is nothing more than beating their chest, but conservatives just love to use scare tactics. I guess they use them over and over because it's proven effective for them. One of the most effective scare tactic used in recent years was the raising of the terror alert level to SEVERE in the weeks leading up to the 2004 election. Remember when American's were urged to go out and by plastic sheeting in order to cover their windows? You may say, "hey Flyboy, they wouldn't have raised the threat level unless there was a real threat" but the truth be told, Tom Ridge came out in 2009 and said that the administration put him up to it and that there was no such threat (kudos to Tom for being straightforward).  Here's a list of other scare tactics the GOP has used over the years:

 

Obama is going to sign a U.N. treaty which would place American gun ownership rights in the hands of the United Nations (my personal favorite)

 

If elected, Obama will order the door-to-door confiscation of guns by federal marshals.

 

We need government issued voter ID in place to stem the tide of MASSIVE voter fraud that takes place during each election cycle.

 

Climate change is a complete hoax promulgated by the left. Rising ocean levels are actually caused by the sun's rotation around the earth.

 

Allowing kids from Central America to cross the border illegally will result in the spread of dreaded diseases here.

 

Gays in the military will result in a greatly demoralized service.

 

Higher taxes result in higher unemployment and stifle growth. "Job Creators" will not create jobs.

 

Obama's energy policies will raise gas prices to new highs

 

The stimulus will result in hyperinflation by the end of 2010.

 

If the Islamic Community Center in lower Manhattan were allowed to be built, it would result in random attacks of Muslims on the streets of New York (the center has been opened for a few years now).

 

Allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire will cripple the American economy and bring it to its knees.

 

Obamacare will result in death panels.

 

Obamacare will result in tens of thousands of American's going to jail for not purchasing coverage.

 

Don't vote for John Kerry because he's a liar and wasn't even assigned to a Swift Boat (this was a kick in the teeth to all of you who proudly and bravely served in Vietnam)

 

If John Kerry is elected he will ban the Holy Bible in America (my favorite Karl Rove line)

 

Harriett Myers will make a great Supreme Court Justice.

[flyboy0681]

Hasn't been a Conservative leader in the White House since Ronald Reagan. I am not a Republican. Question: Did you just whip this list up...or did you cut and paste? Super entertainment value in that list for sure.

 

Finally, something we can agree on. While I don't agree with all of Reagan's policies, his enthusiasm for America was contagious. 

 

The only thing on the list that I inserted was that the sun revolves around the earth (although some do believe it). All others are completely true.

 

On hyperinflation: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/01/1041366/-Still-waiting-on-that-hyperinflation-Teabagger-Epic-FAIL

 

On serving prison time for not having coverage: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/

 

On expiration of Bush tax  cuts: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2010/08/03/173433/mcconnell-bush-small/

 

On the UN arms treaty superceding the Second Amendment: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

 

 

I could go on and on.

 

Now, regarding your "cherry picking" comment. In order to cherry pick one has to deliberately omit other facts. What exactly did I skim over?

[flyboy0681]

 

"They are going to take away your Social Security and Medi-Care" - Bush's privatization of Social Security dies a horrible death - but it was attempted.

"They are going to eliminate the minimum wage" Hadn't heard this one, but I will allow it.

Plenty of scare tactics on both sides of the aisle...Business as usual

So?

Here is a laundry list that is relevant today:

-Average American income shrinking or increasing nationally? Statement or assertion?

-Electing to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan... a good idea? The American people wanted us out as well as the Iraqi people and central government. This was one of the reasons Obama won in 2008. We are not out of Afghanistan.

-Syrian and Libya response and actions appropriate? A little lighthanded I would say. But do we want to be embroiled there too? 

-Unemployment down under 7% as promised? Obama didn't say this. Here is a Fact Check on that line, which was promoted by George Will. And by the way, the number was 8.5%, which did happen within a year:  http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jul/13/george-will/will-obama-said-stimulus-would-cap-unemployment-8-/

-Affordable Healthcare Act a good idea? Implementation going smoothly? It's going very smoothly now and signups have surpassed the governments own projection of 7 million signups. I'm thoroughly convinced that if this were 1965 that you would say the same things about Medicare. 

-Attention to the deficit a priority? You may not have noticed, but the deficit is half of what it was on January 20, 2009.

-Cutting Defense spending now a good idea? Surely you must agree that at nearly a trillion dollars a year that some cuts could be made to the military budget.

-Not building the pipeline a positive for the country? I'm on the fence with this one. While I don't have a problem with the pipeline, not many are aware that the oil to run through it is destined for Asia. Did you know that little fact Scott?

-Release of GitMo Gang for a deserter a good trade? I'm reserving judgement of the "deserter" label until all of the facts are in. He had walked off the base twice before he "went to the other side".  Keep in mind that he was kicked out of the Coast Guard a month before joining the army and was discharged for being "unstable".

-Welcoming illegal immigrant children to the US and relocating them across the country a good idea? I don't have a problem with it. Whatever happened to that earth shattering, 24/7 headline anyway? Hannity hasn't mentioned it in weeks.

-Pushing for Carbon Tax (Massive tax increase) a good idea? This was the GOP's biggest rallying cry in 2008, that Obama would sign it and energy prices would double. So what happened? Gas prices are at their lowest in years.

 

[flyboy0681]

You Cherry Pick in that you take Republican (distorted) blurbs and insert them. I say "I think the Packers have the best quarterback in the NFL" and you say "Cheney lied". What?

I said that Radical Islam/Terrorism/ISIS/IS/ISL wishes to destroy the U.S. way of life. They are a clear and present danger. They WILL do us harm and the level of harm will escalate with their growing dominance in the Middle East. The U.S. is NOT squashing the threat, they are enabling it.

The U.S. response is weak, unacceptable and politically motivated by a weak leader with no coherent plan. Obama, Clinton and the Administration has completely %$#&ed up in the Middle East and the American people are going to pay for the errors.

You list a bunch of political crap from the past that was done be a progressive President.

THAT is what I mean by Cherry Picking Flyboy.

 

Let's revisit this one in six months (or less) when these fanatics are dead and buried. It didn't take much to get them to retreat from the dam, that tells me they aren't the fighting machine you and others think they are. And once their equipment breaks down, where are they going to get spares?

[fantom]

As a moderate, I can - and have - changed my views over the years on certain issues......

 

[flyboy0681]

 

 

 

 

 

Just a few examples. I used to be pro-choice but now lean towards pro-life. 

 

I used to be anti-gun but no longer have a problem with American's possessing them. While I don't believe they need to be registered, I feel background checks are justified so that people with criminal backgrounds AND mental issues are weeded out.

 

I used to believe that the country was probably better off with a central government. Now I believe more in states rights, but acknowledge that federal law does often need to take precedence.

 

I used to think that tobacco companies were not aware of the dangers of smoking until the 1950's - until I read an article of how they were aware of it as early as the 1920's. Same for asbestos mining.

 

 

There are others. Any you?

[flyboy0681]

Bush wanted to allow approximately 10% of current SS deduction to be able to be controlled by the individual, RIGHT? Left response was your reply.

Average American income is DOWN. Fact check that. It IS an Assertion, NOT a question. THAT is where the rubber meets the road.

Sometimes a TRUE LEADER does what is right for the country, because he has wise counsel helping him make the right decision that is in the best interests of the country NOT what is politically expedient...or Gitmo would be closed, right?

I will do some searching on my own for the 7% line. Just like Obama saying $7 for gas sounds about right...He would prefer this to be the case, but couldn't get it done...there is ideology and there is reality. I will get back with you on the unemployment promise % with stimulus passage.

I would prefer cuts to SS and Medicare...The brunt of the budget in an EQUEL amount to Defense spending. Crickets....

You are 100%r right. Can't afford medicare...It is going bankrupt like SS. It is a beast that needs to be slain.

When you spend trillions the year before...you reign it in a tad...it is still Trillions...

If the Middle East spigot is cut-off will be give the oil to Asia or use it to preserve our own way of life? Our oil prices would be positively impacted at home. More supply...less need to ship...lower fuel prices...

O.K., let me rephrase; Was the trade of multiple terrorists for one imbalanced individual a good trade?

I could care less about Hannidy's response. The message from the President and the policy on proposed amnesty vs. securing borders and THEN having a pathway spits on all immigrants that follow the rules. Secure the borders.

Gas/energy prices WILL increase if it signed/implemented...It hasn't happened yet, THAT is why energy prices are not going UP.

 

Your comment on Medicare is timely. Here's an article from this week citing budget projections from the CBO stating that Medicare isn't as much a drain on the budget as thought. But let me ask you this Scott, would you like to go back to the days before Medicare when the elderly (your parents perhaps? Certainly mine) couldn't afford to get the care they needed? Don't give me the conservative line that seniors should buy their own coverage on the open market, not many would be able to afford the $3k a month per person premium.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/medicare-not-such-a-budget-buster-anymore.html?abt=0002&abg=0

 

On cuts to SS, I agree to a point. I still have no idea why a spouse, who never worked a day in their life, is entitled to 50% of their significant others benefit. There are other places to cut as well. But i don't believe the conservative mantra that if one doesn't save for retirement it's their own damned fault and they are on their own.

 

You spoke of Obama's ideology and how he wasn't able to further it. Can't that be said for every single president that has occupied the office since Washington - without exception? 

 

Your Middle-east spigot comment is grasping at straws. I won't live to see that day, so get real.

 

I agree that the border should be closed, but still remain miffed at why this wasn't done immediately after 9/11.

 

Don't Hannity and Limbaugh speak for all conservatives?

[flyboy0681]

 

 

No McDonalds, I swore off sugar a decade ago and no whole milk. I do treat myself to an occasional Coke once every blue moon.

[Tom]

Some are more respectful than others. While my views are often opposing to the predominantly conservative ones voiced here, I don't insult others, or at least not intentionally.

Your point on tact is well taken.  In response, to paraphrase a guy that used to sit in on some of my lectures in college, extreme sarcasm in attacking ignorant anarchism is not a vice. 

 

To point out an individual's frank narcissism seems an attack on the player and not the game.  The issue I have is when that individual's narcissistic supply goes from the interpersonal realm (torturing those around him) to the political realm where his over assured but ill-informed ideas damage at minimum the collective wisdom.  The founding fathers were elitists for a reason--they chose a representative democracy (or republic if you are new to the vernacular) to buffer those with responsibility from those with more emotion than sense.

 

Good luck changing one of the most brilliant minds on earth.

[flyboy0681]

Would my mother have traveled to Africa, Egypt, China, Australia, Europe, Alaska, South America, Mexico...or would she have gotten her back surgery, cataract surgery, Knee replacements, eye-lid tuck? It was paid for, so she had the surgeries.

I absolutely believe that if you didn't save for your retirement...too bad for you, I hope you have a family that will help.

If the Middle East implodes and Iran gets the bomb and Israel is nuked...I would like to have oil in North America secured. Is that a stretch? We shall see in the next decade or so...

They are Conservative voices that is all. I speak for me.

 

It's a good thing that your mom was able to save enough to travel. But one bout with cancer could have consumed her entire retirement savings. My father-in-law succomed to lung cancer two years ago (lifelong smoker) and his hospital bill for his last six weeks was $230k (not including treatment, that was another $80k). Even though he saved for retirement, and lived fairly comfortably, he wouldn't have been able to pay it had he not had coverage.

 

I think you are being disingenuous on this subject. What I hear you saying is that a) One should save for their own retirement and out of that retirement fund pay for their own healthcare. By all accounts the average American would need to save several million to cover all of that. Heck, Money Magazine had an article last year that said a couple retiring now would need to save $230k just to pay for medical bills that Medicare wouldn't cover.

[flyboy0681]

Your point on tact is well taken.  In response, to paraphrase a guy that used to sit in on some of my lectures in college, extreme sarcasm in attacking ignorant anarchism is not a vice. 

 

To point out an individual's frank narcissism seems an attack on the player and not the game.  

 

If you looked like me you'd need to muster as much narcissism as you could get too!

[mooniac15u]

In other news, Iowa and UNI are in a good battle on BTN.

A good game and a fun day at Kinnick.

[flyboy0681]

A good game and a fun day at Kinnick.

image.jpg

 

 

Roll Tide!

 

Go Noles!

[Tom]

What do you prefer, individually owned and run medical savings account you keep, you control, you manage and pass along through generations.

Or giving your money to the government all your lives, as a "congress," that is literally a group of baboons, 435 politicians in Washington, plus one politician elected every four years and his appointed staff ... arbitrarily decide what benefits you get and how much of your money they will take, .... as the bribes, the opinion polls and the political winds of their power blow back and forth across their prohibitively expensive and lavish desks in Washington DC?

 

Do you like giving a substantial portion of your money to insurance baboons all your life?  Let them determine how much of your money they will take?  Let them feed their families with your family's money?  I don't understand the love for insurance baboons but the hatred for government baboons. 

[flyboy0681]

What do you prefer, individually owned and run medical savings account you keep, you control, you manage and pass along through generations.

Or giving your money to the government all your lives, as a "congress," that is literally a group of baboons, 435 politicians in Washington, plus one politician elected every four years and his appointed staff ... arbitrarily decide what benefits you get and how much of your money they will take, .... as the bribes, the opinion polls and the political winds of their power blow back and forth across their prohibitively expensive and lavish desks in Washington DC?

 

 

Medical savings accounts would be great in principal but how many American's would contribute to it AND retirement at the same time? My lord, you all speak as if American's have gobs of extra cash at the end of their pay period to pay for retirement and health accounts. Fact of the matter is, American's are not savers and retirement and old age are as far from a 25 year olds mind as Jupiter is. And I have proof of this. How many millions of American workers are eligible to get a 401(k) match from their employer yet don't take advantage of it because 1) they want every cent from their paycheck or 2) they have other things to think of other than retirement and old age healthcare that's over 40 years away? I know, I know, the big bad government takes so much from their check that there's nothing left. Fact of the matter is, for a 25 year old earning $50k, their tax burden is among the lowest in the industrialized world. Live in a state like Florida, Texas and Tennessee and there's no state income tax either.

 

Let me play devils advocate. At 28 you started contributing to your old age health account and you wake up and find you are 66 years old and you were lucky enough to amass $175k over the decades (after squirreling away money for two college educations and a wedding here and there and your retirement). You find yourself needing a triple bypass and are informed that all in, it will cost $350k. Now what?

[flyboy0681]

There are details to be worked out implementing any concept. If it was Obamacare ... Perhaps you would argue this idea diligently because it's big brother government instead of personal responsibility, freedom and self-control?

You are arguing that since people won't manage their own lives, that you want to empower the government to dictate and provide their healthcare, their retirement, ... and know knows what else? You Seem to believe in government, not government limited like our founders envisioned, you want government to be in all, through all, solution to all ... I don't.

I KNOW the government is just if not MORE corrupt as any legal business in existence.

Read my post above:

Who are you going to go to for justice once you give government all power and the government denies you? You have nobody.

There is a very necessary balance and check of power between business and government. You are about to upset the balance and the results may be catastrophic?

 

Why didn't you just come out and say it. When the day arrives and you can't work, fall ill and you haven't prepared for it (probably because you didn't send yourself through college and make something of yourself), your are S.O.L. and it's nobody's fault but your own. I guess the difference between me and you is I live in the world of reality and human nature and you live in an alternate universe where everyone makes a great living and earns enough to save millions for their decades in retirement and eventual health problems. Man I'd sure love to live in that place. Everyone is happy and content and doesn't have a care in the world.

[flyboy0681]

Flyboy ... If you are unable to see that our government is broken, (not to mention spending us into oblivion) and you even want to expand our broken, ineffective, disabled, inept system without first giving it a serious overhaul and "reset" ... If you can't see what is so obvious ... Just wow!

 

There are many aspects that are broken, but some that run relatively efficiently. Medicare spends a paltry 2% on administration compared to 28% for private insurers. I'll be the first to admit that there's a lot of waste and fraud, but a lot of it is due to congress mandated policies, such as the requirement to get a check into the mail to providers within two weeks of receiving the charges. Many scammers take advantage of this by obtaining a Medicare number and issuing fraudulent bills. By the time the system catches up with them, they shut their doors and moved on to the next scam. One of many examples.

[Tom]

When the insurance baboons get out of line ... you can call your state insurance commission. Or you have FREEDOM to switch companies.

Once you put the government baboons in charge of your health care, and you can't get fair coverage and treatment ... WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TURN TO THEN? You've got nothing.

Amazing how little thought is put into giving the government too much control! "Companies bad ... government good!" Naw ... not so much. You have been deceived my friend.

 

David, I suggest you review the concept of regulatory capture in detail.  The fact that regulatory bodies need to exist and that they are captured suggests that both companies and government are bad.

 

Call the state insurance commission?  You mean ask the government for help to ensure your rights are maintained?  You honestly say I have the freedom to switch companies?  David, I own several vehicles.  Apparently even though I can only drive one at a time, I have to effectively pay separate liability premiums.  In what state does the insurance commission prohibit this practice?  Which company will effectively charge me for the most "risky" vehicle and then a $5 fee to add the other VINs to the policy?

 

I don't think that I've ever met anyone who wanting bigger government.  People want more efficient government, just like they want more efficient everything else.  Saying anyone wants bigger government is a straw man argument at best. 

 

 

[Tom]

Tell me that folks can't save....and then say "well auto insurance is just mandated"...I wonder why states mandate a base level of auto insurance? I wonder....HHHHmmmmm? Could it be that the good people just don't buy insurance...and get involved in accidents?

 

 

So you are a fan of the mandate that everyone must purchase health insurance then, yes?

[Tom]

You want to own a bunch of cars but only pay insurance on one. (Isn't it your wonderful government require that you have insurance? Can you self insure?) And you have never met anyone who wants a bigger government? (Isn't that a mouthful? You made me laugh!) Regulatory capture? Like an administration using the IRS, EPA OSHA, ATF and FBI to attack political opponents, or the media refusing to report news or present the facts in an unbiased manner? I think I am familiar with regulatory capture.

 

 

David, you may be many great things, but you apparently are not apparently familiar with regulatory capture.  Regulatory capture is not evidenced by abusive agencies on witch hunts.  It is not government inefficiency on a monumental scale. 

 

Regulatory capture is the circumstance where the government agency that is suppose enforce or otherwise keep an entity "honest" has itself been "captured" by the entity that it is supposed to regulate.  For example, a toothpaste manufacturer can sell a product containing ingredients known to cause cancer because the FDA allows the manufacturer to cherry pick the data that it submits to FDA.  Does this mean that we should get rid of the FDA?  No.  Does it mean that we need a bigger FDA?  No.  Do you really think that FDA approved industry studies because FDA was simply lazy? 

 

Regarding "big government."  People on both sides of the isle want more efficient government, but they simply articulate it in different ways.  If someone isn't willing to pay for "big government" then they are not for big government, no matter how their mouth moves.  If we had highly efficient government next week the majority of people would be happy.   I would ask you to strongly consider the alternative reality (call it the universe that your enemies are living in) is that the principle problem that we face is regulatory capture and too much money in politics.  Even if you clear the congress tomorrow, the "evil industry" side will just leech onto the next group.  Of course industry has a right to lobby for itself, but no so far as to sell us cancer causing crap and steal 500+ billion of our retirement savings every year. 

 

Regarding insurance, again insurance is a reasonable thing and I buy it for obvious reasons.  But why should I have to pay extra to support all the insurance lackeys in the insurance industry who don't have the skills to find a better job?  There is no avoiding the simple fact that there are a hell of a lot of people in the insurance industry who buy all kinds of crap and afford all kinds of lifestyles for offering the rest of us absolutely nothing.  Like the welfare queens they have learned a way to game the system, only it isn't politicaly correct or cordial to point that out as many of them have made it up into our social circles.

[flyboy0681]

Roll Tide!

 

Go Noles!

 

In other news, the two teams that I help pay for, both won.