AndyFromCB

When I was flying behind a NA IO360, I'd rotate, retract (who cares about the airplane if the engine dies now), establish Vx, retract flaps, climb at Vx to 1000 feet full power, continue climbing at Vy to my altitude, pull in mixture as required to keep CHT up/down. This was in an Arrow with Vortex Generators so my true Vx was somewhere around 75mph and I'd be at 1000 by the end of my 5500 runway here at KCBF essentially guaranteeing a safe return to the runway, always. I do not see the point of reducing RPM and/or MP in a NA engine, density altitude will do that for you pretty quickly and altitude means options. With my Bravo, things got a bit more complicated but here is what I found works for me VFR: Rotate at 66knots, retract, here is my 85knots, retract flaps, keep it at Vx to 1000 feet, lower the nose, accelerate to 120knots, reduce to 34/2400, close cowl flaps if OAT is low, keep them 1/2 open if not, still full mixture, keep on going until cruise altitude, every now and then hit the down button on my KFC 150 to keep my 120knots, usually ending at about 500fpm at 17,000-18,000. When in the mountains, I'll keep it at Vx and full power as long I feel is needed. IFR departure, if ceiling more than 1000 feet, same as above. If going into soup right away, I take off at 34/2400 close to 75knots, retract the gear ASAP, flaps at 85knots and I just climb out at 120knots. Less work, more time to look for autopilot screw ups. I don't fly IFR in the mountains.

Hillary and Norgey were both on oxygen on the first ascent. It's been climbed without many times since then but we are talking about freaks of nature. I think the quote from Messner is: ... Messner testified into his tape recorder that, "breathing becomes such a serious business we scarcely have strength to go on." He described feeling like his mind was dead—and that it was only his soul that compelled him to crawl forward. ... Hypoxia is a funny thing, I've spent 12 hours at 20,000 feet only 5 days after ariving from at near sea level and was fine. Few years earlier in the Wind River Range, I had a complete meltdown at about 13,000 in August so about 15,000 DA. Then few months later just fine at 17,500 in Mexico. At the altitudes were are talking about even minute unrelated sickness and overall exhaustion can make it or break it.

ROP is my only option ;-) Here is a good reason for going up there

All's well that ends well. I'm not insulted and I hope nobody else is. Just good old fashioned tit for tat. I'm sure I'll soon have another question about my Mooney and either xftplt or swingin or someone else will have an answer for me when I actually have no idea what I'm talking about.. Happens all the time, can't figure out everything from a picture on YouTube, you know. BTW, cannot recommend Autopilot Central highly enough. What an awsome crew ;-)

It's cool you've climbed a mountain and saw a picture of a guy in an Acclaim once though.

Gentleman, I've never stated the article was being written by a fool. As far as I read the responses and posts, the article was being used to state that pressure breathing is required at 25,000 feet when it's clearly not. Clearly, we need to use oxygen above 12,000 feet, clearly, you will not live long at 25,000 without it, I mentioned previously the death zone above 23,000. However, no pressure breathing is required at 25,000. A good old mask will do. The pressure inside one's lungs will be close to ambien pressure within fraction of a second. That is all I am trying say. Andy

I call BS, essentially, occording to your interpretation of avweb article, it is not possible to breathe and survive above 25,000 without pressure breathing? I'm sure all those who climbed Everest without oxygen would like to disagree. The alveolar sacs is basically a gas exchange mebrane, hence less O2 and more CO2 on the inside of the membrane but still it is a membrane, creating an open system, the pressure will equalize to the ambient pressure of the lungs. The lungs pressure will always be equal to ambient pressure and so will be the pressure inside alveolar sac. The author of the avweb article is using the words 'pressure' and/or 'concentration', interchangably and they are not. The oxygen diffuses thru osmosis like mechanism with hemoglobin, it depends on concentration not pressure. Plenty of videos of Acclaims on youtube at 25,000 doing just fine ;-)

I also love all the comments about how one has 5 minutes to figure it out at 20,000. Spent over 12 hours on top of Kilamanjaro few years back after and many expeditions to Andes and Mexican volcanos at 16,000 to 18,000 feet and back then I was still smoking too ;-). Over 23,000 feet is where the human body really starts running into problems. At 20,000, unless severly out of shape, you're not going to pass out in 5 minutes, probably not in 30 minutes either. Might take a few hours if ever. Can somebody please explain to me how the laws of physics get violated in an open gas system over FL250? How can there be more pressure in my lungs than outside? See http://patricialipe.com/oxygen.htm Above routinelly uses cannulas to 25,000 feet. Pressure breathing not really required until about 39,000 feet.

Quote: Swingin

John, The alternators are 4009ES, 70amp alternators, brand new from aircraft spruce at $560 a pop. Quality Aircraft Accesories is where I got mine for $570 but the shipping back and forth was cheaper for me. It took me about 2 hours under my A&P to take the old one off and install the new one, you need to take some other parts like baffles off to gain full access. For overhaul, they wanted $475. Andy

GeorgePerry, Insurance thru nation air, company is Chartis, full in flight coverage, no deductible, airplane is hangared, private, instrument, 300 or so TT at purchase, 270TT complex. What I find amusing is that my quote from chartis for a 75K hull value 1969 piper arrow was only about $300 lower so that one is insured with Global. The other thing I find funny is that you get a different (considerably higher) quote from chartis thru AOPA than from other brokers. Don't rebating laws apply to airplane insurance? I guess not.

180kt in a Bravo? I see 205true all the time with TKS at 17,500 on 21gph, 185true on 16gph, 175 on about 14gph. Insurance is $1300 a year for $130K hull value. What's most addictive about turbo after 2 months of ownership is the climb rate. It just doesn't stop... As to climb speed I'd say I average about 800fpm all the way to 18,000 at 120knots burning about 26gph in climb with cowl flaps half open. I'm usually there 25 minutes after take off from Omaha after about 3 minutes of being kept down low by ATC...

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/klns/ZNY-MDT-Dec-20-2011-1500Z.mp3 At 6:49 into the tape a CRJ is reporting ice so severe his hot wing cannot clear it. I can see how even a TBM, not exactly what I would call your run of the mill GA airplane, cannot handle it. I've had a pleasure of a few flights in a TBM (as a passenger) over time and it is more or less an all weather traveling machine, much more so than even a FIKI turbo mooney, think King Air, but if you're getting severe pipers from jets but by then he was already in the air... Right at 3:45 into the tape sounds like he is trying to declare but then he just cuts out. So sad, but truth be told, many of us here, if we had a TBM, might make a go decision in similar circumstances and then it's more or less luck rather than skill... Sounds like he kept on climbing, got ice under the wing, stalled and could not recover and then even the 262knot VNE of a TBM couldn't help...RIP...

That's why I only fly at night ;-) So that the wax Mooney used for tank sealer in certain years doesn't melt.

Allsmiles, I know what I don't know, therefore I do not give out advice based on what a third party told me even if it is autopilot central, whom are now working on my removed autopilot system from my Bravo which if you recall correctly you advised me not to remove myself when it was not the advice I was seeking. How about we do each other a favor. I'll refrain from ever posting a reply to a thread you started and/or answered, and you do the same when I ask a question on this forum seeking maintenance or any other advice for if this was still the time of printed paper I'd say I have your reply in front of me and soon it will be behind me. Andy

Allsmiles, You are a royal pain in the ass. You said Stay far away from Icarus! with an exclamation point non the less. Like if you knew some kind of a secret where the Icarus has been known to roll steer people into the nearest high obstacle and then when asked all you can come up with is a feeble little response: DAC and the GDC31 you are buying a known quantity By that line of reasoning, you should trade in your Mooney (a very unknown quantity at this time) for Cessna with King radios. After all, before Garmin, they were the only known quantity in avionics. What did Garmin do to earn your trust? Take you out to dinner and give you a nice little powerpoint like the drug companies? I assume you're still treating your patients with leaches, then. Or maybe you're not that kind of a doctor. Sick and tired of bashing companies you know nothing about.

I think anybody complaining about Scott's avatar should just quit flying. I find the noise over house offending (nevermind I bought right next to the airport) and your lead in my lettuce unacceptable. On top of everything I get PSD everytime I see one of you over my head because of my Grandma's WWII stories told to me when I was a young, impressionable child...

Well, Some better news. Spoke some more to the repair arm of Zodiac, $2417 total for a new bottle and regulator overhaul. Much, much better. No need to fly to third world, I meant Texas ;-)

Talked with Maxwell, he get his bottles from a Aerox. Unfortunatelly, they are aftermarket. FSDO here sucks so I'm getting me a nice french bottle for $3000 shipped sometimes between now and the next snail hunting season ;-) $2000 I was quoted was for a repair, new one is $3000. Yeay. Andy

Thanks Parker, I'll give Don a call. Andy

Are the charts copyrighted? I'm looking at an old approach book sitting at my desk from about 2 years ago and I do not see a copyright statement. What is stopping someone from scanning these things and distributing them?

Anyone here ever replaced their oxygen tank/regulator? My bravo has the 115cu ft system, part number S895-08015, getting answers from Zodiak is like pulling teeth. The bottle is long expired, 21 years old, I am under the impression that all composite bottles over 15 years are to be discarded, however, Zodiac quoted me $534 for regulator overhaul, $2000 for bottle repair (whatever that entails?) and however, it's other arm is unable to quote me a new price because that part doesn't exist. Go figure? Only thing in the world worst than dealing with than an american aviation company is a european aviation company... Anybody ever replaced/repaired their bottles? Anyone ever dealt with Zodiac (new owners of Scott)?

And I didn't, but wanted to ask the question first. Come off just fine ;-) That's how one learns in the first place. Not knowing anything about a line of business has never been a disatvantage in any line of business, just knowing that you don't know. Few years back I sold my equity in 27 location auto body shop. Didn't know anything about fixing car bodies when I started that company either (bought a TU shop);-) We got bought out because I sat in the first location for 3 months and watched very inefficient mechanics fixing cars, then I made them efficient and replicated it against 27 locations and then sold it. After 3 months I knew more about fixing car bodies than all the kids working in that first shop combined. Might just become a mooney expert after I'm done with this Bravo. Quite frankly your average large front loader is more complicated than my Mooney. If I could just figure out how to make your average A&P shop more efficient via IT, I might own a bunch of them but I just don't see the future in aviation being that bright.

Allsmiles, The tool was about 7 bucks. You missed the point, my A&P, who also is a non-equity partner in my airplanes owns a roofing company, so I'm not doing anything illegal, he'll be there for the reinstall and logbook entry. As to trusting to professionals, I agree on a lot of things, at the very least to have another set of eyes verify the work, but more often than than, over the years, I have found myself telling various so called 'professionals' how to do their job including A&Ps. I can bring out hundreds of examples but a simple one happend last week when I called an eletrician to the house to install some under the cabinet lights, he did, billed me $400 for the job. One of the best, according to Angie's list. Before paying for it, I looked over the wiring diagram, he hooked up the dimmer on the DC output side and did not use a junction box, just some tape, so the transformer was always drawing full power and the was exposed wiring junction in the wall. I looked at him and told him I'm billing him $400 for continueing education. He looked at my funny. I told him the City Engineer was my neighboor and I'll gladly call him over to take a second look. Told him to pack up his crap, fixed his mess and he gladly left at that without being paid. The other profession that I deal with in my life quite a bit are attorneys and I almost never allow one to do any thinking on their own either, the results are scary. In two decades of running businesses never lost a case yet. Don't get me started on licensed professionals. in 90% of case, the same set of qualities that allow one to take years of mindless schooling and goverment mandated testing are exactly opposite of what I ever look for in an employee. Only one computer major in my whole shop and not one Microsoft Cerfitied anything. The only time I disagree is doctors. I want the dumbest SOB treating me as it has been proven over and over again that any sort of thinking in that profession leads to bad results. Follow the flow chart (university of chicago trama center study). I had 3 A&Ps scratching their had for a week to a tune of $2543 trying to understand what was wrong with the voltage regulator when I first got the bravo. Fixed it myself when I finally got pissed off and took the time to study the charging system. I'm an strutural engineer by education, programmer by profession, a contractor/plumber/electrician because of variety of businesses I've started, co-owned and sold over the years. And an occasional 'doctor', quite handy with a suture on climbing and sailing expeditions. So maybe you should invest $600 bucks in a set of maintenance manuals. Might save your bacon one of these days when a licensed A&P screws something major up during an annual.