AndyFromCB

Well, In order for the airplane fairies to arrive, one must first spend close to a $600 bucks on a set of service manuals and then understand and come to terms that average HVAC system is much more complicated than one's airplane (under though a Mooney looks really scary under the panel a first few times) and then to come to terms that an average A&P is an A&P because BMW's were too hard to work on, or bodies(hence dentists), or software (hence business analysts), or networks (hence IT directors), etc. Then they just magically show up on the weekends, fix things and annuals look like paper annuals because the A&P didn't have to do anything but inspect and sometimes comply with a AD... Andy

Allsmiles, Two separate questions. I wasn't asking about whether or not AI removal/install requires a A&P and/or AI. That's between me, my mechanic who is working on roofs for next two weeks because it pays much better than being an A&P, the Lord, unemployed Randy Babbitt and his yet unnamed replacement and the faries who magically fix airplanes. So, here they are: 1.) How do you get the vacuum hose KI-256 (not interested in FARs) 2.) I was asking if a 337 for any STC'd mod can be signed by an A&P or whether it requires an A&P AI (interested in FARs) Andy

Got a quick question. I'm removing the autopilot, HSI and AI to send out for an overhaul. I got everything out but the AI. I got the plug off but seem to be unable to get the 2 vacuum hoses off. They are simply pushed on, no clamps of any sort. Is there a trick to making them come off or do you just cut them off and install new ones each time the AI is removed? Thanks, Andy P.S. BTW, does a 337 have to be signed by an IA or will an A&P do?

KSMoniac, It the package: 1.) The head unit with an installation screws and backing plate 2.) Installation Manual 3.) User Manual 4.) STC Paperwork It's plug and play, as in whatever your old 700/800 had, the new one will have as well, also you can add RPM/Manifold Pressure, etc. Never installed in any aircraft, exactly as received from Aircraft Spruce

I have no idea. If the original JPI 700 did then I would assume this would as well but since this is STC'd part, I'd look on JPI's website. Andy

JPI 700/800 to JPI 730/830 upgrade as delivered from Aircraft Spruce about 3 months ago, new in a box, never installed, selling my Arrow so I'm not going to be putting it in. Aircraft Spruce wants $1065 plus shipping, I'm asking $800 shipped UPS ground anywhere in US. BTW, it's setup for 4 cylinders, so perfect from C/E/J, no good for 6 cylinder models. Andy Either PM me or email me at andy(at)riskmt.com or call 402 990 8687

I wouldn't own an A or a Mite if my life depended on it. Want wood, get a Bellanca. As they say, you can't make an omlete if you don't break any eggs and a few were broken in A and Mites. Actually, I'm thinking Bellanca instead of an Extra 300 because last time I flew one, that's how it felt.

Scott, Funny. I kind of agree with John, kind of, but I'm still trying to figure to to kill myself in my Mooney Bravo. If I don't drop the gear, I'm not landing, it's just not going to happen, I will miss my airport by miles. If I don't feel like going to the gym, I'll do stall practice, because in order to stall my Bravo, it seems like I have to pull, pull, pull and pull some more. If I die in a base to final spin, it's a conspiracy, I tell you, because I've yet to see less than 100knots in that turn. My total instruction in the airplane was about 3 hours of the owner showing my how the autopilot works, so none essentially and as long as I come over the fence below 70knots, it just kind of lands itself ;-) If I quit paying attention in IMC, 3 minutes later, the airplane is still right side up, holding alitutude +/- 100 feet unless it's really rough, then it's +/- 150 ;-) Plus I'll never have to pay a mechanic another $100 bucks to pump up my Piper's gear... Mooneys are a complete POS aircraft but then guess what so are all the other ones. Every airplanes I have ever flown was a POS in some area or another, I think JohnG was just being sarcastic because he seems to love his Bravo. And a Cessna is a perfect airplane, at least a 172/182 is if you're a mechanic. Well thought out, easy to work on, best service in the industry (I mean it, overnight parts for anything, try that Mooney/Beechcraft/Piper) and when it comes to a 172/182, as strong, if not stronger than a Mooney. That strutet wing is amazing. I'm actually looking to trade in my Piper Arrow for a Cessna 206.

I know, I wish he went to shoot approaches too, except everything John has said about Mooneys is right ;-) Other than selling an airplane with issues, because I might buy it, but you better price it right. I always feel really good about my airplane after a good wings off annual as long as I got to supervise the reinstallation of said wings. It it floats, flies or fornicates, rent, it's always cheaper in the long run. This is of course, from a mostly married guy, with two airplanes and a collection of boats ;-) Always doing my best to keep the economy going. And to all you peeps obsessed with your MSC, I worked with the best one, see my older posts, to figure out a charging/alternator/voltage regulator issue. It finally took my taking a full weekend off from my life, understanding how things work and explaining what needed fixing to a few A&P, IAs. The profession most of the time does not attract the smartests individuals as neither does the post service because there is no real money in it and the smart ones are artists who are a pain in the ass to deal with. Take everything I say from my perspective though, I don't like airplanes and I don't especially like flying, I do it because it gets me from A to B "fairly" cheaply and quickly. I have no emotional attachment to aviating like most of guys.

$30,000 is possible, especially the first year, remember, you're running a $500,000 aircraft, just buy them cheap enough and have that in your budget. Think about how much a house costs to maintain (most people don't, I've kept a spreadsheet since day I bought mine) and there are years where spending 10% of the price is not unheard off. Same thing with aircraft. My Bravo experience so far, BTW, I bought it without a prepurchase/annual other than reviewing the logs and spending a few hours talking to the mechanics who maintaned over the years and taking off all inspection panels, has been as expected. I bought for about 25% under vRef and I'm sure by the end of this month I'll have a perfect (by perfect, I mean a POS, but an airworthy POS) aircraft at about 10% under vRef, $20,000 or so later. I'd rather buy a "junker" than a "perfect" one. Crap will break on both soon enough but at least it's expected and priced in on a "junker". At least I end up with a bunch of new parts ;-) Not trying to scare you, just be realistic. There is only one type of AIRWORTHY aircraft out there for sale, divided into two separate categories: -pieces of crap, priced well -pieces of crap, way overpriced, because the owner has an emotional attachment to his airplane/mechanic/sunday morning airport doughnut crew. And then occasionally you will come across some real, unairworthy junk...

The ultimate system, essentially cabable of handing any ice you can throw at it (it already exists, it's called TKS) would be a combination of this and TKS. Heat the panels rapidly to shed the ice and then let the fluid run back. Dream on, I know ;-) That's the only drawback to TKS as far as I can tell in my limited experience last 2 weeks, must turn it on before getting into ice. I shot 3 approaches in freezing drizzle early in the morning last week and I LOVE my TKS, really the only reason why I bought my Bravo (well, maybe not). No ice anywhere on the airframe on lading other than about an half and inch (after 30 minutes of flight) of it on the wing tips, landing lights and a few small areas on the tail and tips of two antennas. What's the story about the manual stating "windshield de-ice not to be used for take off or landing"? Didn't seem to cause any issues and I sure needed it on landing, well, more like last shot about a mile out. Andy P.S. I presprayed the whole airframe using a Wagner paint sprayer before take off, works like a charm for $65 bucks from Home Depot.

Thanks Guys, I'll check my engine monitor to plug issues tomorrow when I go out for a spin. I finally understand the alternator issue in an older Bravo, or more like the voltage regulator issue. Basically there is two channels in the regulator, one for left alternator, one for right alternator, but really only one, the master is online, driving both channels.So if you're left is the master (depends on how you have it plugged in), that voltage regulator channel is controlling the field output to both regulators. The right channel will only kick in on its own if either the left regulator channel dies or gets disconnected via the alternator field button. The overvoltage protection will first kick off on the slave and then if still overvoltage, it will kick off on the master channel. So if your right alternator is weaker than your left alternator by much (I know they are supposed to be the same, but having now dealt with this BS for about a month before squaring it all away, I resistance across the field windings varried by about 15% between 5 different ES4009 alternators we tested), it will actually make less power/voltage than the left one. The opposite can be true as well, making one alternator go over voltage while the other is still way under since the voltage sense pickup is not at each alternator but in a common location, see below. BTW, the older Bravo's pick up sense voltage from the announciator panel circuit breaker, if that ever pops, your voltage regulators go overvoltage and then go offline, nice, isn't it. So much for redundancy ;-) So the trick is to figure which alternator is stronger, which one is weaker, connect the stronger to the left channel on the voltage regulator (it's the master channel), adjust each voltage regulator's channel to its proper alternator to produce 28.2 volts max. Then the stronger alternator will kick off 28.2, the weaker one below that, hence the lower current draw. Now, if you switch the plugs at the regulator and the difference between alternators is major enought, you'll get the stronger alternator producing over voltage but actually the weaker one's field will pop and then since the voltage regulator will work in one channel only, everything will work again. Basically, while we have "dual" regulators and dual alternators, they are not balanced. That would require a balance controller with shunts are each alternator. I think certain aircraft have that kind of a controller but not a 1990 Bravo. Only took a month to track all this down. I actually took the regulator apart, looked at and identified all the parts and paths, plugged in into eletronics simulator and that's how we figured out the issue. If the alternators are way apart, you can have a voltage regulator that works great on a test bench and will trip up in the aircraft. Sometimes you just have to adjust them in the aircraft. So now the question is why the two alternators are way apart. I tested the field wires and both seem to have the same resistance. Andy

Hi, 90 hours since overhaul. It's not unbearable but there is definatelly more fibration than my Arrow's Lycoming IO-360 Andy

Mike, How do you get your ovation to slow down to 100knots on downwind before dropping the gear? I seem to be entering the patern, straight and level and still doing about 130knots with my power at 20"/2400". Unless I yank the power all the way back (bad for my expensive engine), unless I drop the gear, I see 130knots. Andy

As to speed breaks, I did a few landings with them out just for s's&g's, and no, they don't appear to have any effect what so ever at landing/flare. If I bring my Bravo at 90 over the numbers at 3200lb or below I will float and float and float forever, I'd say another 1500 feet.

From my limited Bravo experience (same weights, same wing as M20R/M20S) I would say the following speeds are valid on final with full flaps with plenty of authority left for flare without floating forever in ground effect: -Base at about 90 to 95knots -Over the numbers: -75 knots at below 3200lb -80 knots at gross -85 knots when about 140lb over gross, only tested that one in a simulator ;-) I'd add another 5 knots for landing without flaps, add about 5knots to the above speeds for really gusty conditions, 2 to 3 knots for being really forward on CG. The above numbers are my experience after about 40 or so landings executed with my instructor under various loading conditions before going solo.

Also, coming from a four cylinder aircraft that was pretty rough to begin with so when checking right and left mags I didn't notice much more of a shake, is it normal for my Bravo, which is normally turbine smooth with both mags on to drop about 100 rpm on a single mag and get pretty rought vibration? Worse on the right mag than the left one. Where is John Green when you need him ;-)

Hello, A question to all Bravo owners. How balanced are your alternator draw? Mine are about 10 amps apart. Is that normal? When you answer can you also let me know what your serial number is so I know what voltage regulator you're using. Andy

Allsmiles, One and half feet in the grave as my mother likes to tell me. On top of everything, sometimes I ride my bike to the airport, to fly my airplane to where my sailboat is at ;-) In the mean time, I'll enjoy another season of skiing. Andy P.S. If I ever win the lottery, I see a PC-12 with two motorcycles in the baggage compartment.

Ridding motorcycles one is about 10 times likely to die than driving a car. GA per mile traveled is about 7 times more deadly than driving a car. So I stand corrected, motorcycle + 10 shots might be about equal to our little airplanes ;-) I quit drinking years ago, but if I suddendly became too attached to my life, I'd still take my bike and 10 shots over either my Bravo or my Arrow. Or my recliner and paper plates ;-) All joking aside, I still think a single iPad is more reliable than any other part in our aircraft including all the fancy Garmin gear.

I have an IPad on the yoke, plus another iPad in my flight bag, plus an iPhone in my pocket, plus a panel mounted 430W, plus an Aera 560, plus a VOR/GS, plus a DME. Do I still need paper? How much backup does one need? Is it supposed to survive an EMT attack? If so, I'd recommend a vacuum tube based devices. Paper? I find it absolutely hilarious what makes some of you sleep well at night. We are flying single piston engine spam cans. How is that for safety? You want safety? Go to your neighberhood watering hole, slam 10 shots in a row and take a motorcycle for a spin. You're still be 3 times safer than flying GA piston single.

Fanton, So if the logs weight more than a duck, would you still buy the airplane? Andy

Quote: NotarPilot Thank you all. This is good advice. I expect to find corrosion on a 34 year old airplane. My worry is I don't want to get into something that's over my head that ends up as a money pit. I don't want the day I sell the airplane to be the happier day than when I buy it.

Quote: NotarPilot Thank you all. This is good advice. I expect to find corrosion on a 34 year old airplane. My worry is I don't want to get into something that's over my head that ends up as a money pit. I don't want the day I sell the airplane to be the happier day than when I buy it.

KGNB -> Unless of course you're happy skiing winter park and mary jane, then if you land here you don't have to drive over any passes. That's why I asked about plowing at Granby ;-)