AndyFromCB

I'll post a picture when I get it tomorrow along with the annual discepancy list

So I had my engine reinstalled a two months and about 50 hours ago. The engine runs like a dream. Took my airplane for an annual to another shop than my usual mechanic, to have a different set of eyes take a look at it. I like to do that every now and then. The shop tells me there is a scratch in the lower, left mount from the heatshield and that the engine needs to come off and the mount will need to be repaired. To say the least, I am irked. The engine reinstall shop either: -didn't notice this if it was already present which pissed me off as I assume engine mount inspection would be something they should do before putting an engine back on or -mounted the heat shield incorrectly so it scratched the mount Basically, I'm looking at another 60 hours of labor to R&R the engine. Not happy, do I have any recourse here?

The S-TEC 30 is a wonderful autopilot, especially when combined with GNS430 and GPSS. The cost to install one of these is around 15K these days without autotrim, closer to 20K with autotrim. In my experience of owning my Arrow for 2 years, it was bullproof. I wish I could say the same thing about my KFC150 ;-) When I sold my Arrow, I too had to explain to the seller why my Arrow was priced over and above the rest. Then I took him for a demo flight and had the autopilot fly a full aproach hands free other than me flying the glideslope and he was sold. I would never underestimate the utlity of good autopilot. Best things since sliced bread but maybe it's because I use my airplane to go places so majority of the time my hand flying is limited to about 60 seconds per flight when my autopilot works. Andy

I agree, did two days of training with Bruce, best money spent on training ever.

No, I mean it seriously flew right over my side of the wing. I could see it coming. I was surprised the prop didn't eat it. Not quite sure what vision I have, but as the gentleman in the video said, I see everything ;-) Other than the Seneca that almost took me out on a flight to fargo a month ago or so. Glad I leveled off when I got the warning from ATC, didn't see it until about 10 seconds from what would have been an impact, flew right below me, 400 feet. I like how calm they are when they state "the targets appear to be merging on my scope"

I feel the need...for a helicopter, too bad the maintenance alone would force me to live under a bridge ;-) The guys reminds of my ROTC instructor, who was a chopper pilot in Vietnam, you just know everything is going to be allright, him and lung cancer made a pact long time ago. My first instructor in 1999 was a chain smoker, so we'd crack open the door on the cherokee, he'd ash out of it, then do a stall to close it. About 5 times per flight. Last year I was flying between Ames, IA and Council Bluffs, IA at about 6000 feet when all of the sudden a half a cigar, still smoking flew right by me. I assume "IFR" training was going on up higher. Who needs a hood. I quit after getting my Mooney. That was my pact with myself. 2 packs a day at $6 a pack buys a lot of fuel.

Or you can just go with the two inch RC Allen Digital for $2500, for another $600 you can get a standby battery. I had one in my Arrow and loved it.

Somewhat colorful language, but still fun to watch

Here is the problem with all the ones in the 250 to 300k range. All will be pre mid-1986 without the parker hanafin gear. My understanding the gar kenyon system is a pain and unreliable in cold weather. Costs about 13K to overhaul too. Also, having have been a passenger in the Matrix on multiple occasions, once or twice in icing, I would not fly that airplane into ice. The climb rate once you reduce power at 500feet, which you must do in order to keep the cylinders below redline, is about 500fpm on a good day. Put some ice on the wings and it goes down to about half that. There is a gentleman here on this board that owns a 231 and a malibu. You should talk to him, I forgot his handle though, maybe some others can point you in the right direction. I'm saving my pennies for the Meridian once I get up to1000hours in a few years.

More $$$ for them, I assume. If all you're looking for a CHT/EGT TIT probe that's easy to read and easy to lean, G1 fits the bill.

Tim Tanner used to work at Advanced Air but now works for a medivac helicopter company, but is still available part time. He is a great mechanic and actually used to own a mooney for many years as well. He might be interested in doing a prebuy. If not them, then Glen at Advanced Air is a great, rather 'anal' A&P. If you're interested, PM for Tim's number. Advanced Air's web site is advancedaircb.com, Ron Gray is the head of maintenance. As to Silverhawk in Lincoln, they are an ok bunch but only deal with about 3 mooneys on regular basis including mine. But they do good work on schedule, not the cheapest though. Unless of course you're looking to buy the M20F that's for sale at Council Bluffs. If that's the case, I would not use Tim because he owned a part of that airplane so he might be biased and advanced air maintained it. If that's the airplane you're looking at, the red/white M20F, stop by and say hello. It's in hangar 39, mine is in hangar 38 ;-) It's a good deal, the engine was just freshly torn down by Central Cylinder because of a camshaft issue and they really do a super job on engines. One of those quiet shops in the middle of nowhere that does work for all the big name shops and most of the P51 overhauls in the country.

Marauder, You can just buy the display as well, I think the price was around 1034 for display only. For 1400 thought, getting new EGT/TIT probes felt like a good deal to me. Give Zoran a call, he is a pleasure to deal with. Head only is 1034, all new probes for only 200 extra I think it's worth it.

I've upgraded to G1 at engine overhaul and could not be happier. You can see the whole picture at glance and for less than 1400 bucks I got a new display and a new set of probes. Installations was just a simple swap but we needed to move the harness around a bit because the new G1 is about an inch shorter than the original GEM.

I really wish planepower would add the rest of the airframes to their STC AML. My FSDO would not do a field approval after initially agreeing to do so. Their voltage regulators and alternators are simply superior to anything out there.

Jay, I think I lied. I looked over the planepower.com STC AML list, and M20J and M20K are now gone from the AML. The comma is still there. Just so we're clear, I assume your M20K uses the round 9 pin connector? If so, the pinouts are: 5 +Power In 6 Over Voltage Indicator 7 Field out to Alternator 8 Voltage Sense 9 -Ground Do you have the dual alternator setup? If so, then I know VR515 is not the correct model, 800270-503 is. Don Maxwell fixes these things for a flat fee, at least he did for me. Andy Here is the type certificate for Mooneys that lists all the regulators: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/915f6716d48e83ad8525673c005f14a2/$FILE/2a3.PDF

For a M20K, you can actually use plane power voltage regulators. You can connect two of them together, with one acting as a slave. They are PMA for M20K. You can order the plugs from mouser. If you really need the pin layout, I can look it up for you tomorrow. I have one in my airplane prewired that I use as a back up/troubleshooting aid. I also have another one, never used, fresh from the factory, prewired for Mooney as well I'd be willing to sell for cost, free plug/wiring (aircraft grade) included. Let me know, I'll look up the pins for you. The plane power units are cheaper and much newer circuit design. I think the run about $180 from aircraft spruce plus another 15 or so bucks for plugs/pins/wires.

I agree on all points, I was only brining up my dumb experiences from the past. Survived to talk about them. In both cases, I was with pilots much more experienced that I, both cases involved landing into a front. In both cases, I felt uneasy. The Cessna 172 incident was flying a stranded 172 from KTOP back home to KCBF with a CFI. The Arrow incident was actually after helping a friend drop of a TBM 700 at KBMI for maintenance and then heading back to KDSM to drop him off, 6000 hour pilot, he didn't think much about dropping into the soup at 5000, getting vectored all around and shooting an approach down to 500. Dumb but at the time didn't seem that terrible other than truly fast approach speeds. Who knows how close we were to biting the dust? 172 seemed to be on the verge as we landed more or less with full power, the arrow not so much. The fat wing on that airplane just didn't seem to mind at all. Dumb, dumb, dumb, I know. However, I won't repeat them. I stay out of that crap now, won't launch unless the tops are known, will not launch into a front or land into one either. I will only deal with stratus icing of known thickness. The experiences with TKS in stratus icing have been extremely favorable where other than my landing lights and wing tips, the entire airframe seems to be ice free upon landing because of the propeller spray. I feel fairly confident with TKS in these situations and it seems to increase my dispatch rates considerably. All I am trying to say is that TKS is a fairly capable system and shines in the above described situation and I don't find using it as such to be cavalier. Seems to me the attitude is even with TKS, icing in a no go and I disagree. It depends on the type of icing we're dealing with. Hot prop goes a long way when dealing with layers. I would say the launching into a cold front overhead, with ceiling of 500 and tops reported to be at FL200 would be cavalier and I have no desire to ever do that. That's exactly how that TBM in NJ bit the dust. I would say the launching into the same system 2 hours later after it has passed, with a ceiling at 1000, tops reported to be at 5000, -2C on the ground, TKS primed and on, is a low risk activity. Level off at 900, accelerate, pull back on the yoke, be over the ice 3 minutes later. This is exactly the type of conditions TKS was made for and shines. This is the kind of conditions all over midwest in the fall, winter and spring that stops most NA, non-deiced airplanes in their tracks and hence my reason for owning a Bravo. And I think some here disagree, basically thinking that a single, piston, even with TKS has no reason to tackle ice at all. I beg to differ. All I am saying there is ice and there is ICE and people have dealt with stratus icing with nothing but hot props long before there was TKS or boots for singles. Anyways, not a cloud in sight, heading to the airport to drop her off in Lincoln for her second annual. Should be a fun flight.

Cavalier to you, realistic how we learn to fly in the midwest. Every pilot here will tell you about the time they've landed a 172, a cherokee or an Arrow with a half inch of ice. Read the pilot reports from mooney pilots about their induction testing during the early 1980s. A mooney airframe handles an inch of ice just fine. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cavalier is not taking your IFR students into ice, cavalier is getting all of your certificates in AZ. Shooting an approach in december into stratus with a 1000 foot ceiling and picking up some ice along the way, I can think of a lot different situations much worse and unsafe.

TKS pump draws one amp, so you'd be long out of fluid before you'd be out of a battery ;-)

No doubt that PC-12 is a better aircraft and the turbine aircraft is more reliable overall. I'm just making a point that the PC12 climb rate is not that spectacular when fully loaded. In both cases, Mooney with TKS or Pilatus/TBM, I'd be doing a zoom climb thru a layer. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have no desire to ever again take off or land into a frontal weather system. I use my TKS to climb or descent thru a known layer of less than 3000 to 5000 feet to VFR on top. I'll cross a front up high, at 90 degree angle where my exposure is less than 15 minutes or so with TKS. But I will not attempt to climb thru one. Where the TKS shines is the overall coverage of the entire airframe. Nothing but wing tips and landing lights gets covered. I personally still think a TKS Mooney would not have bit the dust the way that TBM did last year in NJ. I wouldn't have taken off in anything less than a hot wing jet into that weather but I'm just saying. I've never seen my TKS even remotely close to being overwhelmed. PC-12 climb rate is about 1600fpm last time I looked, Bravo will do 1300fpm. Like I said, not that much of a difference when it comes to ice. Neither is an EPIC or Lancair Evo where 4000fpm makes deicing equipment a moot point.

Bravo back leg room is purely theoretical. You can't put adults in the back seats of a TKS Bravo and ever expect to be under the landing weight with any reasonable amount of reserve fuel. Where the back room shines is skis and fishing poles. It's a wonderful 2 adult aircraft with room for everything plus the kitchen sink. I don't know if the speed difference is that much between to airplanes, but Bravo will burn fuel. The airplane will simply run LOP without loosing 10 to 15 knots.

There is no difference between FIKI and non FIKI system other than an extra pump and possibly heated stall vane. I have dual alternators, I have a heated stall vane, I have a single pump. No Mooney has a truly dual power system like Cirrus or Columbia. It is still a single bus airplane. Plus a little something most people don't know but look at your Bravo electrical system diagram if you have the manual. Even with dual batteries and dual alternators, you're picking up voltage sense for the regulator from a single point, your announciator panel circuit breaker for both sides of the voltage regulator. Two wires heading to the same breaker. That circuit breaker pops, there go both your alternators. How is that for redundancy? Your batteries as well have fuses in the back of the airplane. I've blown one of them before. Even in a Bravo you can find yourself without power. Yes, I've rewired mine so it won't happen ;-) And the second pump is overrated. The way TKS works, by the time you realize you're first pump failed, you'll have ice accumulated on your leading edges. Then welcome to 10 more minutes of ice accumulation before you hit the switch and the second pump sheds the existing ice. Most likely you'll land by then. You guys always make it sound like ice is an instance death sentence. Other than frontal conditions, you can sit there in a good old 172 or an Arrow, take on an inch during an approach, fly your final 20knots faster, look out of a side window and land just fine. Been there, done that, didn't use any flaps. Other than frontal conditions, areas of icing are almost always at most 3000 feet thick. Frontal conditions are different but then we're talking SLD and freezing drizzle/rain. Neither exists much above 12K unless in the mountains. This is where I adjust and just wait things out on the ground.

I beg to differ. The climb rates of either TBM or Pilatus are not that much different than a Bravo or a Rocket. I have flown in both, I have access to a Pilatus and if I was stupid enough to launch into frontal icing situation, I'll take TKS over boots any day. Vastly superior deicing system. With TKS as long a you have fluid, there is very little ice including SLD and freezing rain you can't handle. Like I said, if you're stupid enough. I'll deal with all the en route ice you want to throw at me, but not at take off or landing. TKS also shines where boots fail, at slow speed, during a climb or an approach. The fluid dispersion rate is constant but at slower speeds it leaves the wing surface more slowly. Boots really need speed to shed the ice.

Bravo has dual alternators +1 Bravo has a lycoming engine, in my book much better high alitude engine than Continental +1 Bravo has a lycoming engine, eats camshafts potentially -1 (mine did) so the TBO is a wash Rocket has better glide ratio with engine stopped +1 Rocket climbs better +1 Rockets eats about 4gph less for the same speed +1 Rocket has an 8 point engine mount +1 Real useful load will be better in a Rocket due to lower fuel burn LOP. In real world, both airplanes will take off and cruise with whatever you want to stuff them with, but must watch the landing weight and runway requirements.

That's my issue as well, in all my IFR flying, this is only the second time I've ever been issued a hold. First time, long time ago, I got full instructions including EFC. This this time was after a long break in flying. I barely flew last year, been getting the Bravo rebuilt to my specs, sold my Arrow, wrecked my super D due to an engine failure. Only second time in real IMC where I saw the ground for maybe 5 minutes during 1.6 hours of flight time in about a year. Went up again yesterday and today again. Yesterday was fun, 200, 3/4, fog, 3 missed approaches as the weather kept on changing below minimums, no sweat, as I had full tanks and weather was decent within an half hour flight north to KSUX. Got my missed approach practice, finally brought her down on 4th ILS 36 where I saw the lights right at 200. I could have held for 7 hours if I had too ;-) Full 89 gallons aboard. Today was more interesting, 800, 3 miles, winds gusting to 34, but right down the runway, had trouble maintaining altitude no matter how hard I tried. The bumps were just terrible. Good practice, but I only did 2 approaches, called it a day afterwards. Much, much harder to do, good practice, but without a flight director I was all over. I would have not attempted it with lower ceilings.