201er

What about damage to paint, glass, etc? Rain horizontal speed: 0, Mooney horizontal speed: 180+mph...

Ok, cause I heard for gliders it makes a tremendous difference and is very noticeable between regular and laminar airfoils. That a 40:1 glider can turn into 20:1 in rain while an already 20:1 regular stays around the same with little loss. So from what I'm reading here, maybe there is or isn't a tiny barely noticeable loss. Good to know it's nothing like icing. While we're at it, what kind of performance loss you notice with varying levels of icing?

Well, there is a calendar page. But we don't have a next meeting scheduled yet. We usually shoot some emails and see who can make it in order to set it up. Like I said, probably won't be another till January. Stay on the group and we'll get to it. Send an email to introduce yourself. Also you can use it as a resource to mention where you're flying anyway and see if anyone wants to join you.

I have heard that rain dramatically reduces performance on laminar airfoils and far more so than on conventional ones. Someone else (who doesn't fly Mooney) told me that's BS. I have never flown Mooney in rain and would like to know what to expect. How much does rain affect performance and what do you do about it?

We started a New Jersey Mooney Pilots group recently: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NJMooney We are trying to hold monthly mooney fly ins in the region. We had one two weeks ago with 5 Mooney Pilots. We'll probably do something again in January, December is just a bit too hectic with the holidays. I myself am from NY but keep my plane in NJ. You are welcome to join our group if you're willing to fly on over.

Well I have 100 gallon tank so I don't really care about range. That's like 7 hours even at best power with VFR reserve! Cost on the other hand does play a role. We're talking about using 3.4 gallons per hour more to go 15 knots faster. On a 500nm round trip (1k nm), difference in fuel would be $87 to save 35 minutes. If however, it's critical to get there on time or it's a matter of making it there before the weather, it's good to know that it's possible to unleash some more speed from this best power reserve. The stupid POH doesn't even note any speed difference between best economy and best power cruise, yet in practice I found the difference to be more substantial. So is this how all you guys are getting the figure that a 201 is a 160 knot airplane? Are you all flying well rich of peak which leads you to be able to boast that? Or are people really getting 160knots at or lean of peak in a pre-80s M20J?

During a recent flight I decided to test out my speed at various mixture settings. I'm curious how the real world numbers compare to theoretical values and your own findings: All trials were at 4,500ft, 0C OAT, 25"MP, 2500RPM 150ktas, 30LOP, 10GPH, CHTs: 275, 287, 319, 344 155ktas, Peak, 11.6GPH, CHTs: 304, 337, 349, 371 165ktas, 100ROP, 13.4GPH, CHTs: 295, 334, 338, 358

Quote: sleepingsquirrel If you fly LOP that temperature is bound to go down!

Dunno, but I know plenty of guys who practically live out of their hangar.

Quote: jetdriven I try to drain 10 sec each tank before flight. our plane gets fuel form the same pump all the time and sits under a covered tie down. We wash it frequently and the fuel caps are watertight. But XC trips, yes, I am fanaatic about preventing water in the fuel.

Quote: jetdriven As a rule I do not switch tanks on the ground because you might not be able to sample enough fuel before takeoff. I had a friend takeoff in a Cherokee 180 and the engine failed at 400' because of water in the tanks, and they crashed. So, if I had a really long taxi, I might switch tanks a few minutes before the runup. Otherwise, one tank from start to to top of climb. Likewise if doing several full stop takeoffs and landings. On taxi back is probably the safest time to switch.

A) Do you ever switch tanks on the ground? Do you ever test/ues the fuel shut off on the tank selector? C) Do you purposefully switch tanks before takeoff to test the system? D) In what situation do you not switch tanks for sure? E) If switching tanks is destined to cause a problem, what is the longest amount of time you are in the "caution" zone where you are still running on residual fuel before the switch really kicks in. Ex switching to an empty tank, switching to water contaminated tank, etc.

Peak is the maximum...

Good point, but that still doesn't explain why 20"MP down low doesn't have the same affect as 20"MP up high? The amount of air in the engine is the same regardless what altitude you're at if it's 20", right? Is it temperature? Is it air resistance on the prop? What makes leaning at the same MP but higher altitude more difficult?

I've done around 20"/2000RPM at 20LOP at low altitudes no problem. Then I tried 22"/2200RPM and 20LOP at 8000' and it just wasn't happening and had to advance to peak. I've been doing a lot of flying at 20-22"/2000-2200RPM and LOP lately while going through my instrument training. It's all about logging hours and not distance so 100-120kts on 5.5-6.5gph has been golden. Faster than a skyhawk while burning less gas! But just as well I can decide to go on a VFR xcountry the next day and do 150kts on 10gph. I just couldn't understand why altitude made it so difficult to achieve a comparable power setting to down low.

I still don't understand why pulling MP back to 20" at sea level vs WOT at an altitude that yields 20" MP with the prop at the same RPM affect ability to lean LOP differently? Leaning LOP at low altitude and low MP isn't a problem yet that same MP at higher altitude and it's really rough.

On a recent flight at higher than typical altitude for me (8000msl) I was trying to lean LOP but the engine was running awfully rough and had to revert to peak (55% powe). The instructor I was with told me it was because of higher altitude but I'm not really sure I understand how higher altitude impacts the maximum leanness you can achieve. So is anyone familiar with this and be able to explain it?

Quote: jetdriven Your goal is ~15-50 LOP on the last cylinder to peak

Max RPM is the equivalent of best power then?

Today NJMP (New Jersey Mooney Pilots) had our first Mooney fly in. A total of 5 Mooneys came to N14 Flying W for lunch and discussion of our beloved flying machines. We had an M20E, M20J, M20K, M20K 305 Rocket, and M20S Eagle present. Attached are some photos and a very short video of the planes present: The meeting was both informative and enjoyable and we look forward to scheduling more of these in the future. We are using a yahoo email group for keeping in touch about scheduled fly ins and events so if you are a Mooney pilot based in NJ or nearby and wish to get on the email list, send me a PM or request to join on our site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NJMooney

Well I'm always retracting flaps shortly after touchdown anyway. Once the wheels are on the ground, it's virtually impossible I'll be going around. So taking my hand off the throttle isn't that big of a deal. There's no way I'll inadvertantly retract the gear (at least not on a Mooney) cause I'm reaching down and right to flick the little switch up. This does expedite tire and braking control. My new rule is not to even touch the brakes until the flaps are fully retracted. And remember, this topic is about directional control on the ground once a crosswind landing has been made rather than how to land in a crosswind. What about elevator? Is it better to hold back to put more pressure on the mains or push forward to put more on the nosewheel for steering control? I understand why retracting flaps on the ground is helpful in any landing. But can you explain to me why using takeoff or no flaps in a cross wind landing at all is being suggested? I would think not having the flaps down would make you land faster and be stuck in the transition stage between flight and ground roll skidding around for longer?

Quote: rbridges Reading some old posts, I've seen people mention -5mph for every 300 lbs under gross. Is this just on short final or throughout the whole pattern? I would think just short final since the rest shouldn't matter.

Quote: Piloto Mike, what you describe is not uncomon for Mooneys in high crosswind conditions particularly on icy runways. I had almost hit the grass or snow banks on the side of the runway four times. What happens is the plane does not settle on the ground below stall speed due to an air cushion build up between the wing and the ground. This is what causes the plane to float during flare. During this condtion the airspeed is low for rudder effectivenes and the tire friction is poor due to the remaining lift. To eliminate the air cushion effect the touchdown needs to be done with no flaps. Like many Mooney pilots under suspected crosswind conditions I approach the runway with full flaps at 70kts and raise them when at about 5ft from touchdown on the flare. This will cause the plane to slightly pitch up and settle gently on the ground. Since using this procedure never had the slightest tendency to weathervane into the wing. You can also do the above with no flaps on the approach but I found that visibility over the nose is much better with full flaps. It is a safe procedure that can be practiced at any time. José

Ok, but even if my speed was dead on, I feel like there still would be some span of time when you face the choice of drifting across the runway or crabbing into the wind WHILE THREE TIRES ARE ON THE GROUND! And there's little weight on them. Of course I retracted flaps the moment I was down but it took a long time to regain control. I didn't expect this to happen or I would have went around. By the time I realized I should have went around there wasn't enough runway left to go around.

During a recent unexpectadly crosswind landing I encountered a situation upon landing that I did not like. I was high and fast most of the way in and employed a slip to get down. Touchdown was on the fast end and not the way I'd normally land. This is when the trouble started. During the initial roll, the airplane seemed to be skidding a bit sideways. What it appeared like was that the airplane was drifting sideways across the runway and rudder inputs that I would make would make it skid relative to going straight ahead on the runway. In other words, it seems to me that ground effect was still keeping the majority of the weight off the wheels and the wind was drifting the plane sideways. This sidways drift caused me to correct by tuning the nose with the rudder putting me into a crab while on the ground and causing wheels to skid. So it seems like the only two options were to point straight and be pushed sideways on the runway by the wind or to steer into the wind and then have the wheels not be aligned with the direction of motion. Anyway, this was a total mess and I was terrified that the gear was going to collapse. The moment I shut down I got out and checked the wheels. Surprisingly there wasn't any noticeable wear on the tires or anything bent. Besides better speed management, what advice do you have for controlling the airplane on the ground right after a crosswind landing when the wind is trying to blow the plane one way and the wheels are telling it to go another? I think I did use aileron into the wind as well but with both wheels on the ground it doesn't do much.