Cris

Assuming that you have or want an Eagle you not only get better performance 2400 RPM (244 Hp) vs 2700 RPM (310 Hp) but an increase in gross weight from 3200 lbs to the Ovations 3368 lbs as well as the Ovations increased fuel capacity ie.75gals to 95gals. After all the engine/AF is the same. Personaly, I really wanted an "J" due to the shorter T/O compared to the Ovation but settled for an Eagle with the 310 HP STC. Although not well documented the 310 HP 2700RPM gives one J like performance off the runway which is much better than an Ovation's & a substantially better climb rate if desired. At high altitudes the higher RPM makes sense if you have ANR's )LOL)since you run out of MP around 9K. Think of this STC as a Porsche capable of doing 180 MPH but no one really does that except maybe on the track. It just gives a ton of extra performance if one needs or wants to use it. For me shorter T/O & quicker initial climb are very important. And isn't that what Mooney's are all about?

This is the part # of the Hartzell 3 bladed metal prop on my Screamin Eagle (310 Hp) installed at time of conversion. I do not know if it is the same as the 280 HP 3 blade Ovation prop. I'd check with Midwest for the definitive answer as I recall there was some discussion as to weather or not one could use an existing Ovation prop (3 blades) but like Parker says you definitely need a three blade for this STC. Propeller Type: Hartzell 3 bladed prop. #PHC-J3YF/F769DF (B)2

Hi Norman- I have the Midwest Mooney 310 HP STC #SA02193CH on my Eagle which gives the same performance specs & upgrades the gross weight as the Ovation 3. The AF/engine pkg is the same since Mooney licenses the STC from Midwest. There is an scimiter prop option from Midwest for either the Hartzell 3 bladed prop. #PHC-J3YF/F769DF (B)2 which I have or the MT composite prop. These props may or may not have the same performance specs but as I recall the only real differance between the two was in the reduced weight of the MT prop. I'd be happy to measure if that would help.

You are absolutely right. To long a day I guess. I was describing The CHT probes

Check to see if you might have a gasket probe on the errant EGT cyl. which fits in place of the spark plug gasket. That is used to enable both the factory probe & the aftermarket probe to both operate on the same cyl but is the cheap way to do it. That gasket probe will give you a differant reading than the other cyls. If that is the case you can get a spring adapter probe that will work with both probes from the EGT mfg. I may have a spare dual adapter that I'd be happy to give you if you find that you need it. However it is from a Continental IO550 so you'll need to verify the fit. Also if you have a GEM 610 you can "adjust" for the differant cyl temp with the software. I assume that can also be done with late JPI or ECI EGT's but I really do not know.

Did you try an e-mail?

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You are definitely gambling with your $'s if you purchase any Mooney A/C with signs of a fuel leak. Costs can range from $1000/tank for a simple reseal to $5000/tank or more to strip & reseal not to mention cosmetics ie repainting the access panals which may or may not match. However Wilmar is known as an outstanding place to take a Mooney for tank work. In my case I paid $2800 a few months back to reseal both tanks. The previous owner had an estimate of $1500 which I agreeded to at time of sale but in the end I decided to have my local MSC do the work as opposed to ferrying it back to the sellers mechanic together with all the attendant costs for airline tickets, hotel etc.. At the time of purchase I did not realize that the sellers mechanic had actually resealed the tanks just 7 hrs before I purchased the A/C & they were again leaking so I definitely did not want him doing the work. Also when I purchased the A/C It was only half full of fuel. After full fueling for my first leg home, the wing walk material blew off in flight due to a top tank leak which was not obvious since the tanks were not full during the pre buy. Obviously there are a lot of variables with tank work & it can be a big $ surprise. I count myself lucky with my experience for it could have been a real nightmare. Consider holding funds in escrow & having the work done at Wilmar once an estimate can be made.

Quote: Mazerbase That is a nice calculator but you need to remember to add things like subscriptions for Garmins and the dreaded other expenses that come up every year.

The 201 is actually a few knots faster below about 8000'. You might want to do the calculations on the typical altitude that you will fly in either A/C including block time ie climb, cruise & descent. In terms of fixed costs Mazerbase is correct in that it depends primarily on the hours flown. As an example insurance, tie down/hanger and a base rate annual divided by the number of hours flown. That rate will probably be within a few dollars with either plane but here is a spread sheet that you can use that might help. http://ben.com/flying/costown.html In addition some folks use depreciation & interest expense on the loan which may be off set by business deductions if you are able. In the end owning an A/C is really more of an emotional issue that a financial one so chose the A/C that you really like imho.

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Well I insure with thru Falcon. They represent that you receive the discount in the year following the training. Of course I have not seen the discount as I have not as yet renewed my policy. We''ll see what happens.

Ok- Who is attending the Atlantic City Pilot Proficiency Program the weekend of Sept 9-11? I understand there are only about a dozen slots or so left for those interested in attending. For those that have never attended this is terrific training & gives you a break on your insurance. See you there!! Inadvertently posted this initially under Vintage Mooney's. Sorry for the duplicate

moved to the General forum

Quote: Stackthepilot I did change my mind on the prop. Russell at Memphis Propeller said he would build a Zero time prop for $5K. It is the old hub as he said the new No AD hubs are literally worth their weight in gold. I told him I love Memphis BBQ and would gladly fly down every 100 hours where for $199 he will inspect it on the aircraft.

Quote: carusoam It seems only proper to rent an A&P for a morning. Drill the vent holes into the standpipe, empty the tanks using the mooney method, reconnect things and then put it all back.This would also be a good time to check the vent lines and clean the sump/drain mechanism. Let me know if you need a hand. -a-

PS I do have a shadin minifuel L which works just fine but you still need to tell it how much fuel is on board which has been the struggle. Up to now I have been using 89 gals when filled to the brim but that really underestimates the total useable capacity by 11 gals.

-A- That 106 gals now makes sense if you look at page five of the 50 gal/side AFM supplement which has a picture and http://www.mooney.com/images/pdfs/afmPDFs/50gal_useable_fuel-rtn.pdf which shows that the 44.5 gals useable on the M20R is as you describe. It is measured at the bottom of the restrictor while filling to the top of the tank gives 50 gals useable. So if you download & attach that supplement to your POH you now can legally use 100 gals useable. For me my restrictor has a longer neck so I have to mark it at a point where it gives me 44.5 gals or accept the 37.5 gal at the lower restictor level even though total fuel capacity on both A/C remains the same ie 106 gals with 100 useable.

Oh, In looking at your www.mooney27d.com I was reminded that when I was between A/C I had a friend with a Piper Arrow based at Monmouth (BLM) on the Jersey shore. He let me use it basically every other week for a reasonable fee. We flew it back & forth to N07 which gave us a reason to fly & it worked so well we actually considered a partnership but then I found another Mooney. Some weeks it would stay longer simply because neither of us had a reasone to use it but a simple phone call & we were exchanging the plane. The only real expense was an extra tie down since the flying was for fun.

Hi Edneff -I had a couple of Mooney partnerships early on M20E's and a J which worked reasonably well until one partner wrecked the A/C -twice!! Luckily no one was hurt just an ego. However I'd encourage you to be sure the folks are similar in their thinking about maintenace & upgrades. Scheduling with a few folks is not really the issue. Economics are often the driver so get your mutual expectations in writing. Remember like a marriage it is easy to get into but oh can it be messy leaving. A Buy/Sell agreement is mandatory. The partnerships were at (CDW) Caldwell NJ & you might try the FBO there which was an MSC- C & W. It was located behind the tower but I think that it has now changed hands. You might also try sending a letter out to all the Mooney owners in the area with a request for a partnership at the airports of your choice. You can get a mailing list from the FAA records. You might also try walking around and leaving a note on the A/C that interest you. I based for a number of years at Lincoln Park N07. Try checking with Frank Gallea at Lincoln Park Aviation about anyone he might know who has a Mooney & might be interested in a partnership. He maintained quite a few including several of mine. Last but not least is the easy way to do a partnership & my favorite. You buy the A/C & then offer it up for partnership. That means you will get exactly what you want. You can do that simultaneously by looking for partners while looking for an A/C. Happy flying!

Ok, I think I am getting it. So Anthony you are able to get 102 gals total fuel into your Ovation? What do the wing tank placards indicate vs the fuel tank selector placard vs the fuel guage & what year/model Ovation do you have? I think I have to fly one tank to empty to convince myself of the actual quantity. I thought I had it figured after twice draining the tank on the ground but now I am thinking that I never got all the unuseable fuel out when it was drained. Since the Eagle stand pipe is much differant than the Ovations I can not use that as my indicator. That one is 75 gallons as Jorgen correctly pointed out. I did make a fuel guage with a piquette but it was based on the 50 gals/side. That still leave me short a couple of gals but that might also be due to the level of the A/C. So any thoughts on how Mooney came up with 106 Total with 100 useable as per my referance above. And it was not due to bigger tanks according to Jose' & others to whom I've raised the question. Where I was originally going with all of this is to determine if I really have 106 gal capacity. Since the STC states to use all of the Ovation data & Mooney has the AFM supplement for the 50 Gal useable fuel tank for the M20R it would seem I could also use that in the Screamin' Eagle AFM. Now if I could just be sure of that capacity.... Oh and let's not forget the other Fuel Tank AFM supplement that Mooney produced which states that there are 51 gals/tank or 102 useable for a total of 108 http://www.mooney.com/images/pdfs/afmPDFs/51_GALLON.pdf. I understand that might actually have been a mistake by the marketing dept for the Ovation 3 but it is an interesting document.

Quote: skyking1 Max fuel is 95 filled to the top. Is that usable fuel or total fuel? The STC for the POH indicates 89 gals same as the Ovation so I assume that means 95 gals less the 6 gals unusable. However I have been trying to get this answered elsewhere & find one referance to 95 gals plus the 6 gals unusable for a total of 101 gals. Jose' from Monroy has generously shared that all the Mooney tanks are the same & depending on the fuel restrictor used, angle that the A/C is fueled & the OAT you can get higher quantities. His experience is that there is only 1/2 gal of unusable which I assume is straight & level. You can see the Mooney Co. info http://www.mooney.com/images/pdfs/afmPDFs/50gal_useable_fuel-rtn.pdf which shows the useable fuel at 100 gals. The differance may be that I have not run the tank dry so there may have been fuel remaining after I drained the tank. Also to get the tank full one needs to modify the restictors in order to allow air to escape. Also how do your Moritz fuel guages work with the higher quantity or have they been modified?

If you are looking for a budget approach the KLN 94 together with an Ipad & foreflight gives you IFR enroute and non waas approach certified GPS at $120 for a single update or about $260 for four updates within a year. Your charts will be displayed on the Ipad with Foreflight/WingX @$150/yr including a moving map. Presumably you will have an Glideslope receiver for the ILS precision approach. I'd look for the KLN 94 simply because it is newer/color but it is pin compatible with the KLN 89 which allows for an inexpensive upgrade. Just be certain that the install was logged as IFR certified. Other wise you will have additional costs in getting it certified.

Just an update on the Battery Minder. I sent it back after talking with customer service. Just got it back with a note that they replaced it with a new one & tested it prior to shipping. They also included all the cables which I had not sent back to make up for the shipping. Now I have enough for both battery's. Good customer service I'm a happy camper.

Quote: skyking1 send a picture of your "new" airplane! a new paint job will be a someday for me!