Becca

6 missions can be a 15-20 year career at NASA. Selection process for pilots: 1. Become a military test pilot - requires an engineering degree plus 8-12 years (minimum of military experience). Most have more before making it to NASA. 2. Get selected as an astronaut by NASA (most astronauts apply multiple times, and they only do selections every 2-4 years) 3. Do nearly 2 year basic astronaut training to be eligible for your first mission assignment. 4. Do minimum 1 year mission specific training (longer if your mission slips at all or happen to be on the flipside of a long grounding, like after Challenger or Columbia). 5. Land, await reassignment (hopefully relatively quickly - by quickly, you will get assigned to a mission that is at least over a year away because of training lengths), go back to step 4. For a pilot career flow, you generally work 2 flights as a PLT before getting your first CDR slot. As you can see from this, working 3 missions can put you at 10 years, easily. Jim Wetherbee, a quick look at his bio shows, was selected as an astronaut in 1984 and didn't fly his first flight until 1990! His last flight was in 2002. It took him almost 20 years to get 6 mission assignments because of the length of the mission specific training. These guys aren't coming, taking the training and leaving a couple years later. Also, consider the jobs astronauts do when they leave . Most of them don't just retire to Florida, they become NASA, military and industry leaders (and the occasional SWA pilot). Moving up in their careers is hardly abandonning their training.

Yep, flyboy, we all miss the future we were promised. What's sad is I don't think its due to lack of technical know how, I think its due to lack of political will, and changing political will. Do you know how many new manned space missions have been proposed, had billions of dollars spent, and then canceled in the last two decades? X-33, SLI, OSP, X-38, Constellation.. probably a few others. If you had simply taken all that money and committed to any one of them, no matter how technologically flawed, rather than NASA policy being blown about with the wims of each administration and Congress, we'd be a lot further than we are now. A few factors to consider, the cost per pound depends on how you ammoritize the fixed cost - more flights = lower cost per pound. I don't think $50-100/lb were ever in the picture for the space shuttle, but $1000/pound could've happened. There were supposed to be a variety of commercial and DoD payloads flying on the shuttle, but they all went to less life-risking expendable vehicles after Challenger. Maybe it was hubrious to design a vehicle that combined crew and cargo on one ship. Also, little known fact, the crossrange capability of the space shuttle (and therefore the aerodynamic shape and therefor the thermal protection design, etc.) was designed to meet a DoD mission requirement that never ended up flying. Maybe the Shuttle tried to be too much for too many customers. The Shuttle was also before its time, it was supposed to be both a Shuttle and Station, without a Station, the Shuttle didn't have a complete mission for the first two decades of its life. Of course, now national space policy is leading us down the same route building us a deep space capsule but no lander or service module stage that can get us out there and a launch system that I think will be crippled from the start. Its probably worth marveling in some of the things Shuttle did that were NEVER expected early on in the program - the long, complex, and amazing spacewalks, for instance. EVA was envisioned as an occasional emergency event when the Shuttle program was conceived, now multiple EVAs are the norm each mission which enabled us to do very complex space repair and construction tasks. As for the science research you mention, it really takes a space station, and only in the last couple of years has the ISS been staffed with enough astronauts to do serious research, and I am hoping we'll see big gains there in the future. Here's some great photos of the Shuttle's history: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/07/the-history-of-the-space-shuttle/100097/

Also, for another bit of space tourism, my understanding is when there isn't a Shuttle on the pad, that Patrick Tower can give you permission for a low approach to the SLF (shuttle runway). I had the opportunity to do it once many many years ago (don't know if they allow it anymore in the post-9/11 world). Really cool.

Quote: fantom The weather isn’t cutting NASA any breaks, not even for the last space shuttle launch. Forecasters say there’s a 70 percent chance that rain or thunderstorms will prevent Atlantis from flying this Friday. The weather forecast improves slightly over the weekend, so we may not be impacted on Saturday for our FL luncheon fly-in. This will be the 135th and final mission of NASA’s 30-year shuttle program. Four astronauts will ride Atlantis one last time on a supply run to the International Space Station, after which we must rely on the Russians for a lift, and pay very big bucks to them. Up to a million people are expected to jam Cape Canaveral for this historic liftoff. Should be crowded in the air also, so ATC will have their hands full. Launch time is planned for 11:26 a.m. weather and shuttle willing. The launch of the final manned space shuttle from NASA, whenever it happens, will mark the sad end of an era.

Quote: webspinner Hello all, Allow me to introduce myself. I started flying about 12 years ago, and earned my PPL 6 years ago (it took so long do to age restrictions... had to wait to turn 17). I have about 330 hours, which includes complex, gliders, insturment (hood and actual... almost finished my rating) My wife and I have discussed this, and we believe we are ready to buy a plane. After years of reading, a Mooney seemed like a no brainer (anything but another 172!). Last weekend we drove to a local rental place that has an m20J I'm going to plan on building 10 hours of time in before buying. I believe an m20f will be the best option for us. We would like to take friends on trips, and after having a third person sit in the back with my wife up front in the J model, I cannot immagine that working too well with a plane 10 inches shorter. In addition, I would much prefer a fuel injected engine. Any tips, insight, or information would be much appreciated... and feel free to PM me if you know of an m20f for sale! I have so far looked at the following options for planes currently on the market. I am in no hurry, so if none of these suit our needs, we will wait until something better pops up. http://www.lasar.com/w/id/106/new-plane-details.asp#interestform http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F/1970-MOONEY-M20F/1194061.htm? http://www.learstevensaviation.com/aircraft_inventory_1967_Mooney_M20F_N645OQ.html http://www.aircraftdealer.com/aircraft_for_sale_detail/Mooney/1968_Mooney_M20F_Exec_21/33478.htm http://www.aircraftdealer.com/aircraft_for_sale_detail/Mooney/1967_Mooney_M20F_Executive_-_201_Mods_-_Nice!!!!!/29990.htm - Scott

Recommendation: Stay 4 more days and see last Space Shuttle launch ever.

If my work schedule holds in, @jetdriven and I are going to be flying from Houston->Osh->onto Canada and back to Houston. I've read lots of articles on the internet (AOPA seems to have the market cornered on "how to" guides for border crossings, and and there's some Oshkosh survival guides on Avweb), but I was hoping to solicit some top ten type advice from you guys. I've been to Osh a few times, but never by air, and this is @jetdriven's first trips. We'll be camping at Osh. Also this is the first time either of us have taken a GA plane over the border. So, thinks we might forget to think about while planning? must see's at osh? other advice? Thanks!

That said don't be "that guy" with the TCAS. We were going to a $100 hamburger on Monday, we called downwind, base, final. When we were on short final, a Cirrus we had heard call approaching the airport entered the downwind. We called final. He called "Aircraft on final, do you have your transponder on, we don't see you on our active TCAS". Of course, Byron politely replied that perhaps our antenna was shadowed by the wing. I didn't have a snappy reply, but was wondering, why would someone be asking a question like that to an aircraft on short final on a perfect VFR day. They could surely look out their window and see us, why bug someone on final? Too much overreliance on TCAS...

Quote: webspinner That's a bit more comforting. Looking at flightaware and myairplane.com, it looks like this plane was in Mass. just over a month ago and was sold through: http://www.nafsinc.com/sales/index.html to the company here in Georgia that owns it now. Interesting. Although, it may not still be available when I am ready to buy in 2 to 3 months. Anyone had experience with DLK aviation in Kennesaw, GA? (for pre-buy)

Wow, this is making me glad I became an engineer and not a pilot for a living. The guys around here had the common sense to take the pinup girls off the walls in the early 80s. Guess its still ok in the cockpit. My hate speech wasn't directed at all pilots, after all, I married one. The "caveman" and "heathen" comment was addressing this specific pilot and I stand by it. This type of conversation does not belong in a work place, and doesn't even belong in a bar, but you can punish someone for what they say in a bar, but in the workplace I continue to hope that when it comes to the attention of employers they continue to discipline it. I wouldn't fear for my life as a passenger on this airplane, however if I was a FA (pretty and straight or ugly and gay), I would fear how this particular captain would treat me based on whether he judges me as "doable" or not, and that is an employer's problem. That's why these conversations are out of place in the work place because they interfere with your ability to successfully work with your collegues. But if you think its ok to say this sort of thing whenever and to whoever you want at any time, well, I guess that's ok too. I just wouldn't hire you to work for me and I certainly would never let myself get trapped in a cockpit with you or put myself in a position where I have to listen to it. Call it PC if you will, I call it basic human decency not to speak about people you work with like that.

Wow, this is making me glad I became an engineer and not a pilot for a living. The guys around here had the common sense to take the pinup girls off the walls in the early 80s. Guess its still ok in the cockpit. My hate speech wasn't directed at all pilots, after all, I married one. The "caveman" and "heathen" comment was addressing this specific pilot and I stand by it. This type of conversation does not belong in a work place, and doesn't even belong in a bar, but you can punish someone for what they say in a bar, but in the workplace I continue to hope that when it comes to the attention of employers they continue to discipline it. I wouldn't fear for my life as a passenger on this airplane, however if I was a FA (pretty and straight or ugly and gay), I would fear how this particular captain would treat me based on whether he judges me as "doable" or not, and that is an employer's problem. That's why these conversations are out of place in the work place because they interfere with your ability to successfully work with your collegues. But if you think its ok to say this sort of thing whenever and to whoever you want at any time, well, I guess that's ok too. I just wouldn't hire you to work for me and I certainly would never let myself get trapped in a cockpit with you or put myself in a position where I have to listen to it. Call it PC if you will, I call it basic human decency not to speak about people you work with like that.

@Shardach, we're not talking about "legislating morality" here, an employer can't "legislate" anything, they aren't a government. They can, however, have an expected level of professional conduct or any number of other things (e.g. Chick Fila can have prayers before its staff meetings). If you choose not to follow those corporate policies, your employer can ignore it, discipline you or fire you, they can't send you to jail (unless you also break the law). So then the question is how serious is SWA about enforcing these corporate policies (which surely includes respect for coworkers while on the job). I am sure he didn't expect to be caught behaving this way at work in the cockpit, but he did get caught and he was on the job and there should be consequences, you can't just ignore it saying "well, he didn't INTEND on anyone finding out he broke the rules". We don't know if his FO wanted to listen to this rant or was just being polite because he was stuck on a month of trips with this douche and couldn't leave the cockpit. What I do know is that kind of conversation is inappropriate in the work place even when you think you are "safe" from someone over hearing it, and maybe some consequences means the next guy thinks twice before talking like that while at work.

The only "advocacy group" that has publicly commented on this that I know of is the SWA FA Union, and I think they have a dog in this fight...

You know many work places have rules about inter-office relationships, you can get fired for that. Not arrested. But fired. Just because you have the right to say what you want doesn't mean you SHOULD say whatever comes to mind. Rights have to do with what the police can do to you. Your judgement in exercising those rights has consequences, and your continued employment can be one of those consequences.

Love all the "right to life, liberty, etc" stuff y'all have going on. I am curious as to where you guys work? Last I heard, when I was on the clock, my "right to free speech" to be derogative about coworkers doesn't exist. Oh, I can't be arrested for saying stuff like that, but I can certainly be fired or disciplined. And I would hope if any of my coworkers said anything like that about me and was over heard they would be fired or severely disciplined. And though I work in one of the most secure and protected jobs that exist and one I'm unlikely to ever lose, I can tell you something like that is the surest way to get in trouble (besides stealing moonrocks). Frankly, I'd defend that guys right to go on a rant like that to a newspaper reporter in public ON HIS OWN TIME. However, he wasn't on his own time, he was on company time and had the misfortune of being over heard, and there you go.

Shadrach, there was no intent to be overheard, but there was clear intent to use foul language in a discussion about some of his coworkers to another coworker. But to assume they were having a "private" conversation is absurd. There are cockpit voice recorders. They were at work. Yes, its his bad luck to be caught compared to people who have had those conversations without being caught. But if you want to end the culture of pilots (and FAs and whoever) having verbally abusive conversations on the job, when someone has the misfortune of being caught, there has to be consequences, otherwise its a de facto "its ok to talk like that at work, just don't let anyone hear you". And its not ok to talk like that in the workplace. How many FOs and FAs have listened to rants like this, and have been highly uncomfortable, and haven't said anything because theirs no evidence and you don't think the company would take action anyway if they reported it - that's the kind of culture you create when you don't do anything about incidents like this. Maybe I could be wrong, maybe they enacted some serious and harsh internal punishment, and I would be ok with that in lieu of a firing, but all the articles make it seem like short suspension and a class which he probably didn't pay attention to given his attitude, so that doesn't make me have hope that they are working on changing the culture of the cockpit or setting an example.

@fatom, I would agree with you if what he said was in a bar. But he said it in his workplace, and absusive statements over coworkers while at work is pretty much over the line in any workplace I know of. There are a lot of people who would give an arm and a leg to fly at SWA and are perfectly qualified. If they are going to continue to employee him, there should be more corrective action than a short suspension and day of diversity training. @jetdriven, my understanding is the FA Union is pretty upset over this whole deal. SWA has a good history of standing up for its employees but in this case the prime people being offended are also SWA employees. If a customer said something like this to a SWA FA, they would stand by that person being kicked off the plane and probably banned from flying the airline. But if a pilot says something about a FA like that (while recorded on the job), he isn't going to be punished barely a bit and the FA's are going to be forced on the road with him over and over again?

@Rob, and whatever cavemen (or women) stuff is said in the bar and hotel is their business. But when they are on the clock (male or female) saying something that offensive, they should be adequately disciplined. I bet many conversations like that have occured in the workplace in front of coworkers that would rather not be subjected to that kind of tirade and because of lack of a recording, nothing could be done about it. Maybe this will lead to more conscientiousness. I can't imagine that type of talk being acceptable in a non-flying workplace (it certainly wouldn't be in mine), it doesn't belong in the commercial airplane either.

Caveman. I hope he gets fired. I am sure he's not the only one who has expressed these sentiments just the only one stupid enough to get recorded doing it on the job, but maybe a public and rigid disciplining will be a lesson to other pilots to get their act together and stop behaving like heathens. Maybe even make the cockpit a more welcoming place to women pilots than it is right now

Its funny, I just went to a flight safety seminar taught by a guy who's worked on engine monitors for 30 years for ALCOR and JPI. We definitely talked this topic a lot. He said that over 380 starts to expect the lifespace of the cylinder and over 400 should definitely be avoided. Interestingly he said when you start to get up towards the redline at past at about 500 degrees its hot enough to melt your engine instrumentation. Ideally you want to run between 300-330, because that provides the best temperature for having a clean fit between your cylinder, piston, and valves. We think ours is running a little hot at 360, but our baffling is in pretty bad shape, so we're going to put jetdriven to work fixing it up Before opening your cowl flaps, I would definitely consider your leaning. Are you ROP or LOP? Your CHTs peak about 50 degrees before your EGT, so 50 degrees ROP is probably the hottest place for your CHT. I would richen your mixture more if you are running ROP, or maybe lean a little more if you are running LOP and see how the temps do. I guess I would adjust my mixture before putting the cowl flaps in trail to control CHT. But my hard limit is 380, if I see it running above that I take some sort of action. I ran right at 370-380 the whole time I did the air race, WOT, full rich, even the slightest lean would bring it above that, I needed all the fuel to cool the engine, which was sad because it was 18 gph. When I go to LOP, I can get in the 8-9 gph range. Also, he pointed us to this very useful flyer he helped write, see page 11, on troubleshooting engine problems based on what you are seeing on the engine monitor: www.alcorinc.com/PDF/EGT_Nutshell_06_14_2010.pdf Another interesting tidbit I picked up from the seminar was that he doesn't believe shock cooling alters the life of the engine. They can pull hundreds (thousands) of hours of data off these engine monitors and ones that have been shocked cooled seem to have no shorter lifespan than ones that haven't. He points out things like skydiving planes, which climb hot, then dump all their power and dive 10,000 feet towards the ground as fast as they can shock cool multiples times a day, and they seem to be getting the same life out of their cylinders as more traditional engine users. Just a data point. If you PM me I'll give you his email address, he might be willing to share the slides he presented at the air safety seminar with you electronically.

The 99's in our area had a poker run, and then some dork got involved in telling them its illegal. The 99's, a bunch of little old ladies (with all due respect), being threatened with someone informing the state that they are running an illegal gambling ring for charity! Anyway, at the last minute they replaced it with a quiz/treasurehunt. Which was way more awesome (for us) than a poker run, because we filled out quiz questions and my partner one a B-17 ride, which you have way more control over than a random hand of cards. Jetdriven is thinking of my speed at the Galveston air race. My average was 184 mph. It was fun flying fast.

Quote: DaV8or Our good guy Jerry seems to have killed his own son during his aircraft salvage operations hijinx back in the '90s. Quite an eye opening read as to his methodology and character. Anybody who buys this fateful Mooney could seriously be risking their lives IMO. Jerry Pressley and the NTSB

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This whole thing baffles me: I don't know why someone would buy an airplane on eBay site unseen and logs unseen. Certainly when we were looking at airplanes, we searched ebay. But then we contacted the seller and asked to arrange to see the logs and visit the plane before the auction closed. If that wasn't possible, we wouldn't bid. I give you, my dear jetdriven definitely tried to sell me on some "great deals" he saw on the internet, even from salvage places, but I repeated the lines: read logs, pre-buy inspection before money exchanges hands. Its amazing though even an educated shopper seems to be able to talk themselves out of that when faces with 5 figure savings. As for the ethics of this particular transaction, @allsmiles protests aside, based on the responses you guys have been getting back, he is clearly being evasive and concealing the damage, on the other hand, used cars salesmen abound. Logs do tell all though and google the N'number gives you a lot of information. However, if the logs have been doctored, then you're getting into criminal misconduct vs. unethical business practices.

Anyone visit with the Yellow Jacket Flying Club folks? I had good times in those airplanes when I was back at Georgia Tech (well to be fair, they sold a lot of the airplanes I had good times in and replaced them, but a couple are still around). Between the Mooney Ambassadors and YJFC being out there, I was tempted to make the flight all the way from Houston, but life got in the way.