Parker_Woodruff

Quote: FBCK In have the same issue with my 1981 231, as I lean it to LOP the speed drops off quickly, as does the MP, if you push the MP back up, the fuel flow goes back up, so you lean again, speed drops off and so on. I maybe running it a little to lean, but its still running smoothly, I've never done the math between fuel flow and the speed drop off.

Becca, Subrogation does happen - of course it has to be worth the insurance co's time and money for it to happen. Which obviously depends on the loss. Anoter consideration outside the physical damage to the plane aspect is that the Named and Additional Insureds have liability coverage for lawsuits against them. But the renter/non-owner can be at risk of a liability suit in addition to the owner/flight school operator/etc. While I obviously can't discuss claims I see, subrogation happens and I've seen it more than once.

You can log the time as PIC if you are rated in the same category and class of aircraft while acting as Safety Pilot. Note this needs to be while he has a view limiting device on or while you're playing the role of CFI. If it's just to have a pilot observer without meeting above criteria, dont log.

Well, the certified limits are in your POH... Mooney has tested an M20 wing to something like 9 Gs and broken the test stand, however. That also says nothing about the horizontal stabilizer and other components of the airplane that could be compromised with excess Gs. (Seat rails, empenage, etc.)

Quote: fantom If you can get to Ft. Lauderdale, this repair shop is excellent, honest, and reasonable. A combination not found that often. http://www.aeiavionicsinc.com/

Quote: N601RX Parker, Do you have any insite on what insurance companies call "Make and Model"? Over the phone my agent told me M20 was the make and model and they didn't care if it was time in an E or F. He told me this off the "top of his head", so I'm not sure if he really knew or not. From earlier post in this thread it seems other people have been told that the time was specific to an E, F or other model.

Quote: galt1074 Thanks for the clarification. The $15k a year was a low-ball figure for what I would spend renting the local Arrow II for 100 hours. And I can't take that airplane out for a week because the FBO charges $300 for each day it isn't flying. No aircraft payments in that figure because I plan to pay cash. I guess the point I was trying to make is that I could fly around in a 172 and spend about the same per mile or hour as I would in a Mooney so why not go in style and get there before my wife's bladder explodes. Greg

Quote: Becca And if you rent, you can buy supplimental rental insurance.

upgrades not included in airframe reserve. You will put money into upgrades and get some of that money back at the time of sale. Best buy the airplane equipped how you want it. Or buy the nicest, cleanest airframe that you can find and ditch everything in the panel you want in favor of starting over. I think your $15K number to fly 200 hours per year is way too optimistic. what you'll find is that you can't beat a 180 or 200 horsepower M20 airfame on a cost per mile basis. Even my C172 cost more per mile.

Quote: galt1074 Sir, Wow, thanks for the breakdown. I'm really taking my time with this as I gather the money and shop around. Looking at an F or J model to be able to haul the family. I too would be using it for cross country trips and I'd like to be able to fly it frequently. Your information lines up with what I'm seeing in my research. My only hesitation is the annual inspections. Do your hourly airframe and engine reserves account for saving for your annual? Thanks again for all of the information. Greg

My former Mooney, a high time M20J, probably ran me about $90-115/hour in costs from the time of purchase to the time of sale, including capital losses at sale (upgrades, etc.). That's based on a 190 flight hour year. That's not normal and is probably significantly less than what others on this board spend. My airplane flew often and was mostly used for cross country flying. I bought it right and didn't have any major hiccups during my 20 months of ownership. I was also often filling up in the low $4/gallon range. Your operating costs will be significantly less if you purchase an airplane the right way - get the Mooney Service Center annual inspection as part of the purchase agreement, etc. Don't rely on some mechanic who one time saw a Mooney which he identified because of the backwards tail. I now track my M20K to the penny. The first 43 hours in 7.5 months has run me about $170/hour, including all maintenance, not including airframe acquisition (purchase) and airframe upgrades (Encore Conversion). The reason I don't include those is that I could likely sell my plane for close to what I have in it at this point. That $170/hour is very quickly on a downtrend as more than 6 months was spent in the shop undergoing a conversion and I could give you an exact number of the first year's costs here in June. My M20J estimates on 120-200 hours per year hobbs time, not tach time, rounded up to ensure conservative numbers: $45/hour fuel (9gph at $5/gal) $30/hour airframe maintenance $20/hour engine & prop maintenance & reserve $5/hour oil expenditure (based on $250 of oil, filter, and oil change every 50 hours) Add fixed costs of insurance, tie down, GPS updates and you have your annual operating costs. Add in some fudge factor for any additional hiccups.

Quote: allsmiles

Quote: danb35 Parker, PM for you.

Sarasota Avionics or Gulf Coast Avionics in Lakeland.

Quote: allsmiles

A couple notes- - An agent should NOT be telling you to call the insurance company. - Falcon handles USAA's aviation clients. USAA benefits from this and so do its customers (USAA members that get an annual dividend).

Quote: allsmiles Hey Patrick! Do you really feel an LLC offers real protection? I have the airplane in an LLC also but sometimes I wonder. What's there to stop them from coming after us personally? And we are exposed because there is no umbrella policy available for aviation.

Quote: Becca Out of curiousity, which ones are consistently more favorable to Mooneys? Also a couple implied that a good insurance broker can help you with a claim. Is that really true? It seems to me its all about the adjuster at that point. Our adjuster seemed happy to work with a quality well known shop like Dugosh, I guess that isn't always the case?

Quote: KSMooniac I just renewed last week and my agent said that I've pretty much bottomed-out now and rates will likely start going up again after 7 years of declines due to competition in the industry. Hopefully that won't be the case, but all we can do is hope for continued competition. My metrics: ~900 TT, 650 or so in Mooneys, PP, IR, $115k hull, hangared. $1m/100k for $1271.

Quote: jwilkins 3. I've heard the same story about insurance rates being about bottomed out now. We'll see what happens.

Quote: DonMuncy Mitch, Naturally, I can't say for sure, but my guess is that you are getting quotes from two different insurors. Like Jetdriven says above, I think that once an insurer issues a quote on N1234 to agent X, they will not then issue a quote on N1234 to agent Y. I have always thought it was a bit of a strange system, as you really can't compare whether broker X or Y can get your the best deal. Every year, Falcon sends me about 3 quotes from 3 different companies, and frequently they can be quite different. And my guess is that if Falcon requested quotes from every insurer ( I really do not think there are that many of them), the differences might be even greater. I'm guessing, but I'll bet that Falcon knows that these three companies give the best rates on Mooneys, and requests quotes from those 3. Come on someone. There must be people on her who know more about this than I do. Hop in with your knowledge.

Quote: jetdriven I heard that if you submit quotes through an agent then the insurance companies will not give quotes to the second agent. Plus all the insurance companies access a database where they know who quoted whom and how much. Sounds like a cartel.

Quote: Mitch Oh Don, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just sayin' all things being equal in the quotes, why the heck is broker XYZ asking for another $1K for the same thing? ....and the $1K is a bit of on exageration on my part, but it is substantial regardless.

Quote: allsmiles What service might Falcon provide that is any different than AOPA or someone else? If there is ever a claim, God forbid, it is handled by the underwriter. So as long as the underwriter is a highly rated co then it's all the same service isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong!

This is a now defunct Mod Works STC.... state of the art in 1997. Including the EDM 1000, they wanted and exorbitant $8500 to perform this mod. I suspect this STC blew away with the hurricane. I doubt you can get this anywhere now.