KSMooniac

I think Chris's logic is quite sound... if you're at all tempted by the Aspen then you really ought to consider doing that now. Presuming you do not have GPSS right now and you have a mechanical HSI, then the cost delta is small to go for the Aspen since you would not have to purchase the GPSS module and you could sell the HSI. If you decide to move to the Aspen in a year or two, you'll have a ~$1500 GPSS module (guessing) leftover and an HSI that might be worth zero after everyone else has already upgraded and sold their HSIs. You could also potentially remove the entire vacuum system and recover some useful load, too. (I think you have an STEC a/p in the Eagle, which doesn't require a special AI, right?) The Aspen should be much more reliable than a 10 (?) year old mechaincal HSI going forward, too. Not to mention there would be a lot of duplicate labor to install the Aspen later... I agree about not fixing what ain't broke, but in this case the "while yer in there" argument makes a lot of sense IMO. I'd love to put an Aspen in but I have other higher priority upgrades in mind first with the airframe. I already have the STEC 30 with GPSS and dual WAAS, but would love to get an eHSI and ditch my vacuum system and those heavy gyros.

And there is no reason you couldn't do owner-assist annuals on a 231 either. I do that on my 201 for $500 + my labor and some part costs like filters, lube, oil etc. Last year I did pay $8k for a tank reseal, though, but I try to forget about writing that check.

That is awful news! I know someone that would like a K so I forwarded this thread to him. I'm not sure if he is quite ready to buy yet, but he might get motivated really soon for a nice plane. One question though...your sig says it has a 530 but the details say CNX80. Which is correct? CNX80 is the same box as the Garmin 480 with WAAS, correct?

Quote: eaglebkh Quote: KSMooniac The 3-blade prop is a detraction on a 4-cylinder Mooney IMO So is orange paint...

Looks like a solid plane, but perhaps priced a little high IMO. For that price (and the engine time) I would expect a modernized/standard layout panel. But, it has nice equipment installed and cosmetics looks good from the pics. No mention of fuel tank status. Also no mention if the autopilot has a GPSS module or not. The 3-blade prop is a detraction on a 4-cylinder Mooney IMO too, but at least there isn't an AD. If you're in the market then I'd go look at it since it is close!

There has been some discussion on it already here...you might try searching up the threads. I wouldn't do it to my plane FWIW.

George, the 496 has a faster processor and more memory, so you get a 5Hz update on the screen vs. a 1 Hz on the 396. I presume panning and zooming is much better too as a result. The primary changes were processor, memory/storage (ie hold the entire US roads map), SafeTaxi, and perhaps the AOPA database...not sure if the 396 had the AOPA info. I've used all of those features extensively so I'm happy I spent the extra bucks. One other difference, at least 2 years ago the 496 came with more "kit" vs. the 396, so if you wanted the auto kit (I think) you had to pay extra. Again, it might not be critical with an iPhone today.

Just spoke with the MT rep...the SnF special is over. I have some specific questions he couldn't answer, but he gave me the email of their chief engineer so I plan to ping him. I didn't ask if there would be an OSH special, but it would not surprise me. They have 1 E/F/J prop in stock right now, and try to keep 1 of those and 1 K prop in stock as part of their "normal" inventory of 5 props over here. Otherwise, it is typically 6-8 weeks of lead time, with 50% due on order.

George, I agree with XM being a requirement for XC work... it offers such amazing peace of mind and big-picture situational awareness while on a trip. By having the picture in front of you, it allows you to make better decisions on how to divert/circumnavigate the nasty stuff and complete a trip that otherwise might make you land short for a weather update. I opted for a brand-new 496 a couple months after I bought my 201 (Feb. 2007) as soon as my IFR proficiency was back and I was ready to use it. I liked the faster refresh rate vs. the 396, and the Safe Taxi is also very, very handy...you should try it. Additionally, the 496 comes pre-loaded with the entire US road map, so you can use it at your destination without having to pre-load something. This feature may or may not matter...in fact my newest smartphone (from last November) has built-in GPS and works extremely well with GoogleMaps. I'm sure your iPhone would do just as well. Before my purchase I looked at a friend's Anywhere Map, and I demo'd a tablet PC with the XM add-on, and I just decided I didn't want to fool with all the extra crap. They offer some nice features over the 396/496, but the cable management and connectivity becomes an issue that I don't care to fuss with in a cockpit. The Garmins are extremely well integrated, compact, and utterly reliable...and that is why I went that route and I don't regret my choice. If you have an MFD itch to scratch, some folks are panel-mounting the 696, and integrating it to the on-board GPS so that flight plans are pushed downstream to the unit. My 496 lives on a glareshield RAM mount, but has airplane power and the data connection to my 530W/430W combo. I couldn't panel-mount mine without a lot of panel surgery, and the RAM solution is great for me.

RFB, do you have an MT or something else? Your pic looks like a McCauley to me.

Hmmmm....I think I'm gonna make a phone call tomorrow.

JPI is/was offering a killer deal on their EDM-700 with Fuel Flow option very recently. You might consider checking into that...it is a great instrument and I'll never own a plane without one or better.

No need, Jim. I've read the quotes and really scratched my head at their reasoning. They either didn't talk to many Mooney owners, or the ones they spoke to hadn't figured out where the sweet spot is for these birds.

I wonder why they chose to optimize for 11k or whatever high altitude...in my experience the normally aspirated Mooneys are most efficient around 7-9k.

You should lean to a target EGT of 1250-1300 dF for takeoff at any density altitude, and lean in the climb to maintain this target. As you climb (leave it WOT and max RPM), the EGT will decrease in your normally-aspirated Mooney as the air gets thinner and you make less power. Every 500 or 1000' simply lean a little more to bring the EGT back to 1250-1300 dF until you reach your cruise altitude. This method will minimize your time in the climb and not waste fuel while keeping you rich enough to not hurt your engine. You should NOT try to lean to 100 ROP in the climb...if you do this while you're making a lot of power you could hurt things. Lean from full rich down to 1250-1300 dF. If your airplane is setup properly, at sea level on a standard day at full power and full rich you should be in the 1250-1300 dF range. After climbing while maintaining the target EGT, level off, close cowl flaps, and wait a couple of minutes for the plane to accelerate to max speed, then set cruise RPM and lean to an appropriate value...if above 9k density altitude, then leaning to PEAK EGT is fine, and if your CHTs go warmer than 380 dF then lean a little more to 10-20 LOP. It is that simple. If your plugs are fouling, you are running too rich...likely on the ground so you should lean aggressively after startup...to the point that if you apply runup power without enrichening the engine will stumble. I run LOP everywhere except for takeoff and climbout, and never have fouling problems. Everyone should take the Advanced Pilot seminar...it is the best money and time you will spend in anything related to aviation. After taking the course you would have a full understanding of the science behind these techniques and will be able to truly know what is going on when you fiddle with the red knob.

Aerolab (Robert Bramble) also has a great reputation: Aerolab Aviation Services Inc. 1227 Dakota St. Leavenworth, KS 66048 Phone: 913-680-1275

Last Thursday I flew back from Vegas to Wichita non-stop in 5:51, and used 49 gallons. It was ~900 NM, and I didn't get much help from a tailwind for the first 4 hours due to unstable mountain wave activity. 11.5k feet, WOT and 2600 RPM, 10-20 LOP at 7.8 GPH. Hard to beat a Mooney!

They also just certified the IO-390-A1B6D at 210 HP officially, with the roller tappets. It will be really interesting to see how that does on an M20J airframe, or an E/F for that matter.

You should be taking off and climbing at WOT and FULL RPM, and leaning to maintain sea-level EGT on a reference cylinder...likely 1250-1300 dF. Anything less than that (or more rich than that) is less efficient and harder on the engine. Reducing MP or RPM is an old wives tale with no basis in fact for any Mooney engine.

Amelia, do you have an engine monitor by chance? If not, I'd point you towards JPI because they're running a promotion right now where you can get an engine monitor, probes and a fuel transducer for a relatively cheap price...essentially the fuel flow transducer becomes free. If you need to buy a new one and don't have a monitor, I'd highly recommend considering that deal. There also might be some other specials due to Sun 'n Fun next week. Good luck!

Is that the scimitar design that Knute referenced?

Wow, can't believe he would discourage the 2-blade Top Prop on your 4-cylinder Mooney and encourage a 3-blader! It would be heavier, more expensive, and slower....perhaps it was because they had one in stock? The C-182 installation has no bearing on the Mooney installation as you suspect too.

Yikes, that is not even remotely competitive. When we had this discussion not too long ago on the MAPA email list I thought it was reported to be in the 10 AMU range. At twice what a Hartzell costs and 8-10 times what an overhaul costs I don't think they'll sell any.

Did you get a breakdown of the expenses that add up to 14 AMU? I thought it was in the neighborhood of 10 AMU complete, with an STC so you wouldn't have any field approval expenses. I think the newest Hartzell Top Prop 2-blader is ~7 AMU.

Amelia, the factory updates the manuals so that very well could be the correct one. Before purchasing, you ought to check for the "effectivity" that it covers and make sure your serial number is included. You also might call Mooney and see which manual is current right now. 2 years ago they gave away USB flash drives with the current manuals particular to each plane through the service center network during a promotion. Now you have to buy them of course, but it would be worth a call to inquire about the latest and greatest.