FlyingAggie

I started this thread at the beginning of my training and wanted to make at least one more post to say that last Friday (1/6) I passed my IFR check-ride and am now instrument rated. It took me much longer than I expected, but having to travel for work (i.e. I unfortunately made both the Marriott Platinmum Level and United 1K in 2011) really impacted my training. This was the most challenging but rewarding effort I have done in flying. It seemed the last 10% took 50% of the time. I had to reschedule the check-ride five or six times. The joke with my instructor became that I had learned a lot about weather in my IFR training. I could predict with 100% accuracy when we would have winds greater than 50 mph or blinding blizzards----it was any day on which I had scheduled my check-ride.

I had just gotten back into flying a few years ago and was about to go flying, when I witnessed the aftermath of a human encouter with a spinning prop. A brand new pilot (who was in his late teens) had just gotten his pilot's license the day before and was taking his parents for a flight as his first passengers in a DA-20. He had taken his mother up first, landed and was changing passengers. For what ever reason, instead of killing the engine, he let his mother disembark with it running. You enter and exit the DA-20 from the front of the wing. She climbed off the wing, facing toward the tail and backed into the prop. This story had a happier ending in that it was cold and his mother was wearing a heavy down filled coat. The prop ripped the coat apart and tore into the fleshy part of her backsides. She was rushed to the hospital for treatment, but fortunately, she escaped with only some serious lacerations. It could have been so much worse. I'll never forget the sight around the DA-20: the ramp splattered with blood, adipos tissue and down from her coat. The young pilot was totally devestated at his mistake. I have often wondered if he ever flew again. The pilot is responsible for the safety of his/her passenger inside or outside of the plane. No excuse to let them get close to a spinning prop. So sad about this happening to this beautiful girl. My sister-in-law in Plano has known her for the last yen years and was very upset this happened to her.

Byron, That is some good infomation on turbo cool down. It would be more interesting to see what the body temperature of the turbo is doing after shut down or even more pertinent, the temperature of the oil in the turbo after shutdown. Isn't a more important consideration what the metal temperatures are doing after shut down than the TiT while the engine is running? After the EGT's goes to zero and the oil circulation ceases, you have a fixed quantity (mass) of oil being the heated from the residual heat stored in the metal body/impleller parts of the turbo? Seems like that should be the concern about the oil coking is after shut down not when the engine is running and the oil is circulating. Ron, I saw the same thing when shopping for my K. It would be interesting to see how many of the planes you listed have engine analyzers. Of course, even if an a/c has an engine analyzer, it doesn't mean the operator used it. Nevertheless, being new to turbos and a first time a/c owner, I included the likelihood of doing mid-tbo cylinder replacements in my purchase decision, so I am prepared. Maybe this should be in a seperate thread, but I find the biggest limitation of the K over the J is lower useful load and should be factored in the 201 vs 231 purchase decision and is dependent on your mission. My K's useful load is 892lbs whereas Scott '77J is 1050lbs. That is another person or 25 more gallons of 100LL. Although my typical mission is me and my copilot, there have been times when I would have like to be able to bring four people on a flight. Without the gross weight increase STC for eligble K serial #'s, seems like most 231K's are in the 900 to 950 lbs useful load range and early 252K's are 850 to 950 lbs. J's are usually more. The later J's got fat, but are eligble for the 160lbs GW increase STC. If I fill my K to 106 gallons, it becomes a single place plane, but then who wants to fly 9 to 10 hr legs?

To answer the OP's question, my 231 has the -MB engine, which is usually found in the 252. My engine is approaching 800 SMOH, so I am entering that midlife top overhaul zone. I like the margin of safety the turbo provides operating out the airports in Colorado where density altitudes can be close to 10K' in the summer. It is nice in the summer to get up above the bumps into smooth cool air. Regarding making TBO without a TOH, one of the experienced 231 drivers at KBJC has made it to TBO on two different 231's and one of those had the -GB engine. He treats the engine very gently. Equiping the a/c with an electronic engine analyzer and learning to use it to manage the engine will greatly improve the chances of making it to TBO. The panel CHT gauge is only attached to one cyclinder. I have seen CHT's on the other cylinders over 400 degF with the JPI, while the OEM CHT would lead you to believe the CHT is well within the green. A friend of mine, bought his 231 a couple of months before I bought mine. His came without an electronic engine analyzer and he was running it in cruise at the very top of the GREEN on the OEM CHT gauge. I was alarmed when we flew together for the first time, knowing that on my a/c the other CHT's could be much higher. He has since added a new JPI to his bird. Also from reading some of the articles published during the late 70's and 80's, it seemed to be accepted practice to run with CHT's between 420-440 degF on the OEM CHT gauge. No wonder, so many K's needed tops. Besides making sure the baffling and baffle seals are in good shape, that there are no exhaust header leaks, another very important aspect to cylinder longevity is making sure the fuel injection is set up properly according to TCM's SID97-3. It should be checked or redone at every annual or anytime any changes are made to the fuel system. I would also be interested in seeing Scott's APS data on turbo temperatures. I follow the same practice as others have mentioned of waiting at least 5 minutes from the time I reduce power until I shut down. I also wait until the TiT is below 820 degF before pulling the mixture. This may be unnecessary, but my transition trainer was a very experienced Mooney 252 and Mooney Rocket owner and this is the way I was taught to shut down. My 5 minutes starts usually when I reduce power abeam the numbers and has expired by the time I have taxied to the hangar. Also I do all climbs at full power (36"/24GPH/2700RPM) and 105-110 kntsand have found the CHT's actually stay cooler than at the POH's recommended 33"/2600rpm. I have put 150 hrs on my 231 in the last 18 months and have had no problem with cyliners or the turbo system (so far). The compression readings between the first and second annual were almost identical. My engine is approaching 800 hrs SMOH----It will be interesting to see at my next annual to see if my instrument training has taken any toll on my cylinders. Something else that has not been mentioned is the smoothness of a 6 cyl engine turning a three bladed prop. Besides heat, vibration is the next biggest enemy of rotating equipment's longevity. Also another lesser factor mitigating cost difference slightly, is there is no muffler to repair or replace on a 231. One question to the other K drivers: Do you make any adjustment to power setting on takeoff based on OAT? The POH instructs that the MP should be increased or decreased 1" for every 10 degC above or below standard temperatue when makeing cruise settings. Howver the POH makes no mention of adjusting MP for OAT on takeoff. I thought about this morning when I went to the airport and the OAT was -16 degC. The POH does warn about the possibility of overboosting on cold days, even with the -MB engine, but this is the controller allowing the MP to overshoot, not a consideration of air density at temps different than std. After 150 hrs, I am very glad I bought the K. Finally, you can't really quantify it, but I ljust ove the "kick in the ass" feeling when the turbo kicks in during the takeoff roll.

I think having both is a good combination. I just bought an Aera 560 and installed it in the airplane today and have just recently bought an iPad2 for running ForeFlight HD. The Aera is mainly for XM weather and the iPad for flight planning and elimination of paper charts. I feel more comfortable using the Aera for navigation,especially around special use airspace as opposed to the iPad. The 560 features 9 arcsec resolution. It will be expensive keeping the database updated, but comes with a year of "free updates." Maybe by then the pressure from Foreflight and WingX, will cause Garmin to moderate their "highway robbery" of GPS portable users for data. The iPad2 (with it's internal GPS) will be okay as backup. The compact size of the 560 fits nicely on the yoke and I like it up close and instantly accessible. It is small enough that it doesn't block my view of the instruments. However, I am disappointed with the yoke mount included with the Aera. The clamp that clamps to the yoke shaft is way too long and just barely tightens down of theMooney's yoke shaft. It was designed to be a universal mount and fit over the the massive yoke arm found on Bonanzas. It sticks down about 2-1/2" below the yoke shaft and today kept hitting my clip board and approach plates on my clipboard in my lap. It could rack havoc on the screen of an iPad. Anyone encountered this problem and figured out a better solution? I plan to use the iPad on a knee pad and looking for different strap on options for it.

Quote: CoachTom Alan, so glad to hear you are settling into that aircraft!!! wear it well! TMcD

A few weeks ago during climb out on a instrument training flight, the #2 EGT on the JPI 700 was going crazy. It was "bouncing" from a nomiinal 1300 deg F to full scale (2000 degF) about three or four times per second. Although the engine was operating smoothly and the #2 CHT were their normal 360 degF, we returned to the airport as a precaution. The readings were rock steady during a full power run up on the ground. I was pretty sure it was a bad probe or faulty wiring and not a stucstiking valve. My instructor agreed and we flew the lesson with out problem, although it was distracting to see the #2 EGT bouncing up to the limit. A fellow 231 owner and buddy of mine had bought an EGT probe from Spruce for $97 and suggested I try to buy one while at Sun n Fun. I visited the JPI booth and asked if they had a probe that I could buy. The fellow at the booth handed me a new EGT probe and told me it was FREE when I tried to pay for it. I was amazed. The JPI in 2MB was installed in 1994 and well out of warranty for decades. I installed the new probe during my owner assisted annual and was very pleased to see the #2 EGT readings were rock stable tonight when I flew the a/c on the first post annual flight. I had heard bad things about JPI's customer support, but I was truly impressed of how they treated me and will probably upgrade the JPI 700 to a new JPI 830C.

Flew my Mooney 1.5 hours tonight for a post annual shake down flight and all was good. It is also good to have the annual behind me, but feel the week that I invested in assisting was well worth it. I did ask a CFI buddy to fly along with me on this first flight, so one of us could fly while the other check that everything was working. Boy I love my Mooney.

It felt really good to pick up my logbooks today and see I am good for another year. Howver, folks at work had a hard time understanding why anyone would spend a vacation doing what I did. Quote: aerobat95 Sounds good. I plan on taking some time off in Nov to help with the annual. I am excited about learning my plane better as well.

Randy, I used Gregg at Mountain Air Aviation. For a Mooney he charges a flat fee of about $1,600. If the owner assists, he deducts the hours it would take him to do the tasks done by the owner. I haven't received the bill yet. Alan Quote: RJBrown Alan I like your idea for switching between owner assisted and MSC. Who did you use and what cost were there? Randy

Is this what you mean? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/speedHandle.php Quote: Kwixdraw Sounds great Alan. Next time you get ready to do all those panels, get yourself a 1/4 in drive speed handle, it will be much less strenuous on your wrists. They work pretty well at getting the stubborn screws out as well without having the driver jump out of the screw head and dance all over your painted surfaces with the power tool. Get a pack of drywall screw bits too. Get the kind with the ribs on the driving flats and that will also give them some extra grip in the screw head.

Your right, not sure what I was thinking when I typed that. Probably wasn't. I do need to take the APS course as Scott suggested. APS is bringing the course (with the engine test cell?) to Colorado Springs on 9th/10th August 2011. Quote: danb35

Brian, Welcome to MooneySpace and Mooney Ownership. It is good to meet another Colorado Mooney Owner. I am based out of Jeffco. BTW, Dave Martinelli, who just bought a 231, is based at FTG. If you have any questions about your Bravo, a good local source of info is Dave Brury, who has owned Bravos for several years and bases out of BJC. He is not on MS, but is on the Mooney Talk List (Dave in Denver). I can give you his contact info if you PM me. I would like to talk to you about your experience with the Depot Avionics in Alamosa. My next upgrade will be replacing my JPI 700 with an 830C, but that will take some major panel work. I also want to add the CO monitor in the location to be vacated by the JPI 700. I also have the GPSMap in a panel dock on the right side of my panel, but because of the view angle from the pilots seat it is not convenient to use. Where did you mount yours? I bought a 20 deg tilt wedge, but if installed it blocks my view of the MP/RPM gauges. Could you post a picture of your panel? My plane has the Monroy long range tanks giving about 106 gallons and the plane was about 1/2 full at the prebuy/annual last year. It was only when I asked LASAR to transfer fuel from one side to the other to fill the tanks full, did we find leaks toward the top of the tanks. So I think our experiences provides a lesson for future buyers doing prebuy inspections ---FILL THE TANKS. Incidentally, a friend of mine, who owns an F, had Arapahoe Aero fix his tank leaks last year and he has been very pleased with the results. Lest your thread turns into a ROP/LOP debate, this subject is like religion. I understand your caution of following the warnings from the MSC experts , but someone will be along here to tell you 100 ROP is the worst place to operate your engine. My plane came with GAMI's and have no problem operating LOP. After doing the GAMI Lean Test, I know the fuel flow that puts me where I want my richest cylinder on the lean side of peak and is within an acceptable TiT. I like to keep the TiT below 1600 deg F. So I set power, pull back mixture to the known fuel flow. In the mid teens, I see about 160-165 knots at 9.5 to 10 GPH LOP or 175 knots ROP on 12 GPH. Congratulation on your purchase and for sharing your acquisition experiences. (PS. You have excellent taste in picking a plane with an excellent paint scheme)

Quote: KSMooniac Alan, did you get your fuel injection system fully sorted out? I can't remember... I know we talked about it quite a bit at the BJC airshow.

This week my bird had her second annual and I am very pleased with the results. I put pretty close to 100 hrs on my plane since the last annual. The cylinders showed essentially the same compression as last year and the oil filter was clean when cut open and inspected. Only one discepency was found and that was an unreadable placard. Both IA's, who tag teamed the inspection, commented about what good shape and how clean she is. Nice compliments for a nearly 30 year old airplane and a testiment to the thoroughness of the LASAR prebuy/annual I had done last year. This year I did a owner assisted annual at a local maintenance shop at my home drome. Although not an MSC, they maintain several Mooney's and were really convenient. I took the entire week off and devoted my springbreak to the annual. Only a Mooniac would see this as a" vacation." They gave me the run of the shop and let me use their tools and were alway readily available when I had a question or needed guidance. A friend and fellow Mooney owner showed up a couple of days and helped me remove panels. We both participated in the landing gear emergency extesion test. It is always good for the pilot to annually practice the procedure. I hope this is the only time I have to use the procedure. I used the annual as an opportunity to clean up some items found during the first annual, but didn't have time to do out at LASAR last year. One item was removing the regulator/air filter off the back of the vaccuum pump that provided air to the weather radar, which had been removed years ago. I also spent a lot of time putting the panels back on by replacing stripped out screws and timmerman nuts. My what a wide assortment of mis-matched hardware that had accumulated over the last 39 or so annuals. I hope I have found the reason for my marker beacon receiver not working. Someone had routed the antenna coax cable so it was crushed between the panel and the landing gear drive unit resultiing in a direct short. The $20 for a new cable will certainly be cheaper than buying a new audio panel. Putting the airplane back together, I used an electric screw driver, set to the lightest torque, to put in the screw and then hand tightend all them with a screw driver. Needless to say, my wrists and forearms are really sore this morning as are my neck and shoulders. Spending the week in the maintenance shop, provided the opportunity to get to know my plane much better than the first annual and a side benefit was meeting several other area pilots, who were also in the shop working on their planes. My mind is feeling good about the annual and a real sense of accomplishment, but my 58 year old body is glad the work is over and ready to return to my normal desk jockey job. I will probably rotate between MSC performed annuals at LASAR or DMax and doing a owner assisted ones at the local shop.

As Bob said, it is fairly easy to check for inductions leaks using the output from a vaccuum cleaner. Be sure to filter the air (using a pair of panty hose) so your not blowing dirt into the induction manifold. We were able to get about 5" above ambient pressure (i.e. about 30" at my elevation), but it was enough to see bubbles in the soapy water. Quote: carusoam Good to see Flying Aggie back on line... last post I saw was before the storm at KLAL... Alan, I hope all is well...

Did you have the full TCM SID97-3 setup performed? Have you tried the GAMI lean test to see when #2 peaks relative to the others? I have the TSIO360-MB, which also has the tuned induction system, and my CHT #2 is always about 20 degF hotter than the next hottest cylinder.

Jolie mentioned on the MAPAlist that a few Mooney Ambassdors are trying to get together for dinner on Friday. Anyone know the place and time? Watching the local news with live reports from SnF, looks like they were hammered by high winds, blinding rain and hail. Video showed several tents blown away and a few aircraft upset. One unconfirmed report is that 70 people are trapped in either a hangar or building that collapsed.

I awoke to thunder and heavy rains this morning. There were numerous reports of several funnel clouds in the area. Most of the storm tracks went north of LAA, but more storms are coming in from the gulfthis afternoon and looks to be pushing further south and will pass over LAA. The highways were reported to be at a standstill, so I decided to stay in my hotel room and study for my IR written. It is supposed to clear out tonight, so I'll try to pack 3 days of planned event into Frid and Sat. This is my first time to attend SnF and last summer was my first time to attend AirVenture, so my luck with with bad weather and major AirShows continues. Quote: Bob Alan, you are posting at 12AM, are you too excited to sleep? Enjoy the event!

Are there any other MooneySpace members planning to be at Sun 'n Fun Thurs - Sun?

I just celebrated one year of Mooney ownership and flew 2MB about 100 hrs during the first year. To answer the question, I had about 150 hrs last year when I bought my Mooney and about 90 of that was before 1978 and almost all my hours were in C172's and Cherokees.

Hank, Now that I think about it that maybe happening to me. I may have been one dot or less when I dropped the gear. Ninety knots and approach flaps about 3 miles before the FAF and then drop the gear when the g/s is 1 dot high, but one time I was late and dropped it when the g/s was centered. I had to push over trying to catch the g/s and then overshot and then the "chase" begins. I may not being patient enough and need to drop it earlier. I plan to follow your suggestion the next calm day we have and try it VFR. BTW, the bore of your cylinders in your four banger IO360 is 2/3rd bigger than the bore of my TSIO360 six banger, so you have the big bore engine!!!! Quote: Hank Alan-- With the noted exception that your big-bore will handle differently than my carbed 4-banger, I found through trial and error that 90 knot approach speed handled much better with approach flaps already in, and to descend along the glideslope all I had to do was drop the gear about 1½ dots high. By the time the needle reached center, I had begun to descend; if I waited until the needle centered to drop the gear, I would be high and the pushover I gave was always too much, taking me underneath so that I could then pull up . . . Try dropping your gear at center, and see where you go, then adjust by dropping the gear a little higher so that you don't have to push the yoke over. You can do this by yourself, VFR, at any airport that has either ILS or GPS approach, as the glideslopes are mostly the same. As with everything else, the plane likes to fly and doesn't like to slow down. Go to your practice area, drop the gear and time how long it takes the plane to start down. It should ease the workload during approaches to find this point, and drop the gear early.

I agree about flying by the numbers. At the beginning of my IR taining, we went out to attempt to fill out the power/configuration table for my a/c, but everytime it was one of those mountain wave days with 500 fpm updrafts/downdrafts. The results didn't make a whole lots of sense. I have been using the power/configuration settings from the Mooney Pilots Course for the 252 that someone sent me. Think I will go out and fly some descent VFR and try to verify the settings. It is probably just my ham handed flying!

I am surprised that Scott (KSMOONIAC) hasn't chimmed in here. I believe his 1977 J has something like 1040 lbs useful and is 10 to 15 knots faster than most F's.

Since my post about my "humbling" lesson in the a/c on 15 Feb, I have done two more lessons in the plane. These sessions have gone somewhat better. My instructor has me flying back to back approaches (going missed and then requesting another approach at the same airport) and entering published and nonpublished holds. She keeps adding to the work load: in the last two lessons, I have handled all the radio work with ATC. I am making slow progress, but still feel like I have a long way to go. My instructor continues to track every time I bust the PTS for airspeed, altitude and heading and her totals at the end of the lesson are pretty humbling. I am still amazed at how quickly things get out of whack when I am trying to find an IAP or setup an approach on the 530. This is by far the most demanding thing I have done. My biggest problem yesterday is tracking the glide slope. For some reason I am having trouble establishing a stable 500 to 700 FPM descent. It should be simple to establish the a/c in a 95 knot level flight with t/o flaps and then drop the gear, reduce power and follow the glide slope down, but instead I am turning it into roller coaster ride . I think it may be my death grip on the yoke, even though I am trying to be light and gentle. I am hoping to step the training up to two or three session per week for the next couple of weeks, but we have another snow storm coming in today and then my annual is up at the end of March. Next lesson should be interesting. We will be flying more approaches, but my instructor has warned me that she suspects some of my flight instruments in 2MB are about to fail.