Anzaldi01

Last year I had the same issue along with a non serviceable Blade. The options were to spend $5K to get it through one more overhaul using a used Blade and serviceable Hub only to be facing the same issue 5 Years down the road or spend the additional for a New Top Prop. I opted for the Top Prop Conversion and I have to say that It was well worth the investment. I get better Climb and higher speed with less noise all on a timed out engine. This year I did an engine and complete makeover and this prop really performs. I also dynamic balanced the prop which really made things smooth! Worth the investment if you plan on keeping the plane. The 3 Blade conversion looks really cool but I'm told it's slower than the Top Prop and I believe it's more expensive. I think Overhauls are also more expensive.

Looking for someone with an S-Tec 30 ALT installed in their early model Mooney. Particularly ST745-30 ALT. Doesn't matter the Serial Number of the STC. I just need it for reference in my Field Pre Approval. If anyone has an aircraft with this system installed it would be greatly appreciated if you could share some images of the STC and POH Supplements. Sincerely, Carl

The process has been challenging to say the least. S-Tec has been less than helpful with my particular case and unfortunately a Field Approval is my only option since no AP manufacturer will be doing an STC for my particular Serial Number. It's a M20A with an E wing. I have a complete system now and have done a dry fit for the components all of which meet the prints so physical installation is exactly a "Like Installation" I'm doing the paperwork for a Field Pre Approval and I'm missing some of the documentation that would make the review go more smoothly and could be the difference between approval and denial. A copy of a 337 form and STC from an early M20E serial number will include the limitations and continued airworthiness information I need but I will need the POH supplement information as well to support my application. I'm sure someone has the information I'm looking for to use as reference but I just haven't connected with them yet. I am working with an IA that has accomplished a number of Field Approvals and he's reviewing my documentation. The FAA representative that I have been consulting with has been very encouraging and feels it should be a relatively easy review under a "Like Installation" since basically I'm identical to an Early model C or E physically. Also obtaining a copy of the installation instructions for a S-Tec 30 installation in an early model C or E would be helpful. It's just difficult to find this data outside their Dealer Network. Old Chub on MS has been a great contact that I have made and has provided a lot of help in my quest. Wish me luck. I'm committed now ($$$$) to making this happen. Carl

Your model is already covered by most of the AP manufacturers so it's not as much of a challenge. My Mooney is a M20A with a M20E wing and M20J tail. The wing is actually a one off STC. Basically my aircraft is identical to an early C or E model but the AP Manufacturers can only identify the A by TC and Serial Number. I've consulted with the FAA and they encouraged me to continue with my project based on the configuration of my aircraft. The real issue is S-Tec will not provide any assistance or information even under a field approval. The community here has been very helpful in providing information and assistance. I'm just in need of a couple of pieces of information that are likely to be requested before I submit my package for a Field Pre Approval review.

I'm in need of a copy of a STC and POH Supplements for a Short Body Mooney M20C or M20E. I also need a copy of the Installation instructions for the Short Body Mooney M20 Series as well if anyone has a copy. This is for supporting documentation to be submitted for a Field Pre Approval for my M20A with a M20E Wing. I have already purchased a complete S-Tec 30 system and I'm well on my way to applying for the field approval. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Carl

Mooney Space is awesome!! great network of like minded Mooney lovers and a huge help with Franken Mooney's like mine. Obviously come of us are in it for the long haul. Once I finish the Auto Pilot I will have my perfect airplane. Thank you for the kudos! I am planning on documenting my project to share with others should they take on such a task with similar obstacles. One way to give back!

John: Thank you for the suggestions and this is pretty much the direction I'm going based on my conversation with the DER I have been communicating with. I worked with LASAR and Mooney and identified the exact serial number aircraft my wing originated and it is an early model E and is the same structure used through later models as well. so that pretty much covers the Roll Servo requirements under the STC for the original installation of the system I purchased. The Pitch Servo configuration is also identical with the Short Body E models so it really is a "Like Installation" Since all the documentation is current for the rest of the mods I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the DER agrees that the application is consistent since there are no modifications to the STCd model installation required. With the help of others on the site here, I was able to obtain the S-Tec original prints for installation and the Autopilot I purchased from an early model E has complete paperwork including the installation, STC and Prints so writing up the 337 should be pretty straight forward since I can produce prints for the intended application along with some photos from approved installations to support my claims. I've invested enough now to be committed so we will see how the process pans out. Keeping my fingers crossed. Sincerely, Carl

Old Chub Really went above and beyond on this one. I Received a full set of prints and schematics today and he has provided a lot of feedback to assist me with this project. Thank you everyone for the assistance! I'm looking forward to paying it forward in the future.

For what it's worth I did an overhaul early this year. The engine shop sent Phillips 66 XC 20W50 back with the engine so that's what I started using. In the past it was AeroShell 100W+. I'm please with the Phillips product and will continue to use it. My engine has about 130 Hours on it now and the oil changes also reflect much cleaner oil drains. Filter has been clean and the Oil Temps are within the normal range. Eric J. Comment about less blow by with the fresh engine is absolutely accurate. I wouldn't worry about the oil being too clean, overall it will prolong the life of the engine and it sounds like you did a good break in with the low oil consumption. Sincerely, Carl

I did discuss that with the DER as well. It is possible to take the aircraft into the Experimental Category for market research and later bring it back into the Normal category but I will have the same issue with the AP Manufacturers. If I want access to Approved parts I have to fit their STC criteria. If I want to leave it in the Experimental category I can make make use of any hardware I can find but it would not be able to be brought back into the Normal category without approved parts. I'm not sure what my insurance would do if I brought it into the Experimental Category.

You can't use / copy an existing STC verbatim for a field approval however you can take portions of an STC or multiple STCs and use them in creating your documentation for a field approval per my conversation with the DER at the FAA. The FAA used to publish the STCs where anyone could access them but the manufacturers complained and forced them to stop the practice because the information was being used by competitors and infringed on their protection of intellectual properties. I did try to get a letter of permission from S-Tec to go for a field approval using a unit purchased from them directly for a B, C or E model but they said they would not. As mentioned earlier they aren't real interested in helping customers who would like to use their products beyond their current portfolio. Understandably I'm just one customer with an old Mooney. How much time and trouble am I worth?

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately Stec doesn't offer an STC for an A model. Not that it would do any good if they did because the only remaining A model components of my aircraft is the Fuselage. You are absolutely correct that Stec doesn't what their units recycled across other aircraft and I can understand that they are in the business of selling product directly however I also feel they should support after sale products as well. In my case they don't offer a solution. I've talked with Mooney and aligned them with Stec for my particular case but haven't heard back. If I can purchase a complete unit from an aircraft being parted out and work on getting a field approval that really is my only option. The DER at the FAA gave me some encouraging advise based on my particular case but it will involve utilizing excerpts from an existing STC for the S-Tec documentation along with my own documentation showing the application utilizing PMA'd components and like model installation techniques. I proposed this the S-Tec and they had no interest in helping me. In fact in an effort to basically get me to go away they offered to let me pay for the creation of a new STC for my model at the cost of $75K + as well as the cost of the Autopilot. Not exactly customer centric if you ask me. If I had the opportunity to purchase an approved Autopilot I would more than likely NOT use S-Tec based on their service after the sale or flexibility to assist with a realistic solution. At this point my only hope is to try for a field approval but it's going to take a lot of documentation to back it up.

After reviewing information provided on my earlier post about adding an Auto Pilot to my M20A with M20E Wing and M20J Tail along with information provided by a FAA Engineer it might be fairly easy to add an auto pilot out of a similar model Mooney utilizing excerpts from a STC along with my own documentation for a Field Approval. S-Tec will not provide any information since they do not have a STC for a M20A. If anyone has any photos of a S-Tec System 30 or 50 installed in a M20B, C, D, or E it would be helpful. I have found a system out of an early M20E but there is no documentation. The brackets, servos and harnesses are included but I would like to see where and how the system is installed if possible. Specifically the Roll Servo mounting and connections and the Pitch Servo Mounting and connections and location. If any one can help it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Carl

Do you happen to have Treks contact information?

Great advice and background info. I will give a Trent a call next week and see what he thinks is a good approach. Thanks again to everyone.

You bring up some good points. Having an older A model automatically puts you in to a "Don't Waste my Time" category. Earlier this year when the engine was timed out I toyed with the idea of selling it off cheap and putting the money I would spend on an engine toward a newer model. I pretty much figured I would look to spend around $100K-$120K as my budget but unfortunately after reviewing several planes in the range I was looking to spend I found that most needed far more work to get them anywhere near where mine was mechanically and I would easily spend another 50K+ to just get even really. I almost moved into a Bonanza but I didn't care for the V Tail and opted to keep in the Mooney family. Believe it or not my wife talked me into just putting the money into our current plane and make it how I wanted it so that was the path I took. I spent about $65K doing the make over and the only thing left is the addition of an autopilot which my wife also insisted I do next annual. October will be Annual time so I'm trying to align things but so far it's proving to be a real challenge. In any case I plan to keep the airplane and I know getting my latest investment back out if I ever part with it but in the meantime I have an airplane exactly how I want it. I'm based out of REI Redlands Muni near San Bernardino. I will consider going with the GFC500 if I can get around the STC issues. My preference is something like the S-Tec which replaces the Turn Coordinator just for simplicity and the fact I just did the Panel and had it powder coated and laser engraved but if needed I can do more cutting. Thank you for your feedback and encouragement. I love the plane and it has served me well.

The wood wing is certainly faster than the Metal wing however getting away from organic materials comes at a cost. My empty weight is 1624 LBS so basically Ramp weight is about 1952 LBS full fuel. I added a Hartzell Top Prop last year which increased my climb and speed noticeably with reduced noise as well. This year with a new engine both increased even more so I'm getting 1,200 FPM out of my home field of 1572' on a warm 90 degree day easily. I true out at about 165-170 MPH.

Thanks for the welcome and your feedback. I will look into the GFC500 and may contact them to explain my aircraft configuration and see if they might have feedback as well. In answer to your questions: 1. Yes this wing modification is STCd. I agree that it is odd because this STC specifies that it applies only to my serial number and can not be reproduced on other aircraft. The STC is Walter Laidlaw SA4386WP. 2. The entire tail section is a M20J and the STC for the wing change calls for Rudder deflection of 18 degrees +- 1/2 degree. The complete wing assembly is M20E including the control surfaces. The STC also calls out the Elevator and Aileron deflections. The wing modification was made in 1982 and both the wing and Tail were done prior to my purchasing the aircraft, I've owned it for the last 28 years. .

Thanks for the reply. I've been in contact with our local FSDO and have requested contact by a DER to discuss my specific situation. Unfortunately I have have yet to hear back from them after leaving messages on several occasions. My next attempt will be through making an appointment and see if I can get a face to face meeting. On a positive Note I did contact Mooney and received a little encouraging information. They are having their engineering department review my STC and 337s and looking for possible options and they feel that a Field Approval should be obtainable. The real obstacle is getting the AP manufacturers to work with me. Even a letter of permissions or some supporting documentation by Mooney would be helpful in working with the FAA. If there is a M20A out there somewhere that has obtained a field approval for a modern AP system it would be a lot easier to have some backup to support my request.

I recently added an engine monitor to my M20A/E/J. Engine was timed out and was having it overhauled so it was the perfect time to protect my $30K investment with the new engine. The JPI 930 is STCd as a primary instrument and is worth every penny. It replaces all of your engine instruments including the Fuel Gages, OAT, EGT, CHT and will interface with your GPS to provide Fuel data for your flight/waypoints. The Lean Find features allow you to optimize your ROP or LOP engine leaning to optimize performance and fuel consumption. Of course it took a panel upgrade which I did while the engine was in the shop.

Thank you for the feedback. Interesting idea for the Portapilot. Not really what I'm hoping for to be honest plus it's definitely not as clean I would like to go. I do have dialog going with Mooney about the issue I'm having. For all practical purposes it's really the same as an early C or E model. The S-Tec System 30 would literally plug and play but I have to figure out a way around the STC and getting some type of field approval.

Help! I have a M20A which has been STCd for a M20E wing and M20J Tail. It basically looks like an early model C or E. The aircraft is beautiful and I just did a complete Panel make over including a JPI 930, 2 Garmin G5s Garmin GNS430WAAS. I want to add an autopilot but S-Tec and all the other autopilot manufacturers overlook the A Model which wouldn't really work anyway because of the E wing. Does anyone know of an A Model with a field approval for an autopilot? Or have any advice for how I might get a field approval? Thanks for your feedback.