the_elkhartian

Daniel Steiner at BANK Burlington....I had a fantastic experience with BANK. Their website is www.bank.bank I was about 6 business days from application to close. I got rough quotes from AOPA and US Aircraft Finance....BANK was a lot more laid back and willing to talk to me about all kinds of crazy options and what-ifs. Rates and fees were same or lower than anything else I found and they let me decide about a lot of things that add up (ex. escrow....a lot of lenders require it, but BANK let me skip it since I was going through a broker.) And the lender took care of registering everything for me, so even though I'm a first-time buyer and I had no concerns about screwing up the FAA paperwork. I met them year before last at OSH. I hadn't really thought of them since then, except that I have a swag glasses microfiber wipe that I keep on my desk at work. (So I guess swag does work!) Daniel is a pilot. The CEO of the bank is a pilot. Just good, hometown country banking out of Iowa.

Short story....I work at a at a very big flight school. We have a fleet of 70 single engine pistons, oldest being a 2013 model. Carbureted O-360s. I’m not at liberty to share the manufacturer’s name. But it rhymes with “Diaper”... We fly a lot. Often >400 hours per day. 7 days a week. Last summer we had a rash of engine fires at startup. 6 planes melted down on the ramp, no injuries but half of them totaled the aircraft. It was always on startup. Diaper engineers were called in. Lycoming and carb manufacturer. NTSB. FAA. All of them said it was the pilots fault. Flooding the engines. Pilot error. Dumb pilots. So we bought a FLIR camera and boroscope. We tested and tested...until...we figured out that after shutdown, with no fuel flow and no airflow the engine and component temperatures actually RISE after shutdown for about the first 40 minutes. The heat soaks throughout the cowling and vaporizes the fuel in fuel lines running from electric fuel pump on the firewall to the carburetor. You open the mixture valve and vaporized fuel “steam” rushes into the carburetor and flushes all of the fuel in the bowl down down down into the air box. Get a backfire and whoosh you have an engine fire. That story isn’t directly relevant to this discussion, but this is. Diaper and Lycoming said that the only thing they knew to do was fly less. Or convert our fleet to fuel injection. So, they’re converting our whole fleet to fuel injection (mostly at their expense). But now we have fuel injected IO-360s dying in the run up area. “Stupid student pilots” they said. “Don’t try that again,” we said. So indeed, after discussing internally, the manufacturers decided that at idle during taxi there is insufficient airflow and fuel flow for fuel system components stay below 155 degrees (temperature at which fuel boils at our elevation). So, Diaper and Lycoming say not to retard the throttles below 1000 rpm while on the ground...keep fuel flowing, and it can’t vaporize. (This is while they work on approval for a fuel return circuit that flows fuel back to the reservoir at low rpm like in a Cessna.) So your problem sounds like basically every day that I taxi a brand new and very well maintained airplane with an IO-360. Of course I’m in the desert at 1400’ with very hot engines. But like you, it clears right up as soon as you’re rolling down the runway. Not sure if that’s helpful. Also sorry that ended up being a pretty long story!

Does any old USB—>SD Card reader work for the updates to the Garmin data card? or have they successfully figured out a way to force you to buy their $70 card dongle? Either way, I guess it’s not as bad as the $1.2k they charge for the WiFi flight stream 210 or whatever that is basically a branded $20 WiFi enabled memory card.

Last year at OSH, I took a day to just really observe where the "excitement" was...I walked around to all of the displays. Everything had it's own vibe... STOL/Ultralight area was like a 3 ring circus....so much energy! I wanted (want) a Kitfox or a Just SuperSTOL to go along with my Trent Palmer youtube obsession. I think there is a lot of growth in this area. This is where a lot of the "outdoorsy kids" were hanging out. The surfer/back country camping crowd, if you will. The Daher/SOCATA tent/compound is the tophat and monocle crowd. I got the vibe that I wasn't rich enough to walk through their immaculately landscaped gate. And they were okay with that. I feel like a lot of TBM shoppers are deciding between that or a Phenom 300. The Cirrus tent is the popular kids at the lunch room. Everybody wanted to be at the Cirrus tent, everybody wanted to get invited to the Cirrus party. You don't have to own a Cirrus to buy a Cirrus polo shirt, and matching hat and water bottle! Show us the keys to your Cirrus and you get to come to the private Beyonce concert we're having tonight! Everybody wants to be a Cirrus owner. And if you don't like Cirrrus it's because you aren't cool enough to sit at their table in the lunchroom (from their perspective, at least.) And then there was the Mooney tent. Ho hum. Sleepy side of the field over there, next to the engine overhauler and the latest eastern european light sport. On exhibit? 1.4 airplanes (if you count that cockpit demonstrator as 0.4 of an airplane). I poked around the sad, forlorn looking salespeople....baking in the sun and wishing they had a tent...private lounge...or even a glass of water like the "plastic airplane" people (or "the dark side" as I actually heard one of Premier's salespeople refer to brand C--specifically referencing a Mooney salesman who had left to sell Cirrus). I overheard more than one conversation with Mooney reps that went like this. Rep: "Hi how are you!" Prospect: "Good...you know this Acclaim Ultra is really nice...but you know I get most of the same performance out of my 199X Ovation II. And I didn't have to spend $800k for it...." Rep: "Yeah...an Ovation is a great airplane." <camera zooms to single tear running down the Mooney reps cheek> --just observations....we all agree a Mooney is a fine airplane. There are just few people outside of our community excited about them....seemingly to include the people tasked with selling them.

I just bought a Mooney last week! I live in Scottsdale. Plane is at FFZ. Happy to share my thoughts/process. JP

Interesting. I’m hoping “virtual OSH” yields a lot of timely deals this year.

My shiny new airplane has databases from 2019. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the different database subscriptions.....Jeppesen, Garmin, Seattle Avionics... Looking for pro tips for how to get what I need, while keeping maximum cash in the bank (and wife off the back). Equipment: Aspen Evolution Pro 1500 (PFD/MFD) Garmin GTN 650 Relevant Factors: I'm in AZ so terrain/obstacles are more of a concern than, say, Iowa. I have Foreflight with all the whistles and bells (connects via my GTX345) Only flying in the US I've searched the forum and the Google more generally, hard to find any concise (or recent) answers.

Have you priced Carbon Cubs?

Get an RV-12. Performs like a 172 in the footprint of a 150. One of you in the group can take a weekend repairman certificate class and then the group could do the annual condition inspection. A blast to fly. Most have modern avionics with a simple autopilot. Awesome visibility. Oh, and it burns 3.5gph mogas. Also, with the E-LSA you have to worry even less about build quality. It’s more of a “home-assembled” aircraft than a “home-built”.

What GA needs is some innovation and scale. We’re creating a thriving aviation museum community. Producing 4.5 planes per year doesn’t replace the aging fleet. So used prices continue to climb, fewer people take up flying because it’s expensive and “dangerous” in “rickety old airplanes” and so fewer planes stay in service. I hate to be a downer but GA as an industry is in a bit of a flat spin. Case in point: Just got this in the post. Do you think the cover of the July 1970 AOPA mag had a picture of a 70 year old airplane? (What would that be...the Wright Flyer? A Curtiss monoplane?) As a matter of fact, no! It was a bada$$ Cessna 310 that made you want to be like Sky King and tear off with all your friends and family into far off adventures, grow your business and just generally improve your lifestyle. Or it was the sexy new Mooney ~10 years earlier. The biggest hindrance to relevancy today, in my opinion, is the cost. Second is the corner we’ve painted ourselves into being a quaint world of hobbyists.<—perception... Sure, a 1970 Mooney performs as well or better than some of the modern stuff, but you can’t sustain an industry with 60year old airplanes or $800k variations of that old design. We need growth. Innovation drives growth. Like @Blue on Top said it’s all “perception” and the perception to outsiders is that we GA pilots are all fanatics akin to the guys who keep their model T’s running and polished up to drive once a year in the 4th of July parade. The average Joe doesn’t consider GA as a real tool for commerce and lifestyle (like I do). I’m 35 years old. A little younger than My father was when he bought his first airplane in the late 70s. There are basically zero factory-new offerings for me in a price range below $400k (which isn’t even in my price range)...while 50 years ago there were probably a dozen. The parachute plane people have done a better job than anyone (in recent years) creating the perception that owning and flying your own plane is achievable or a even good idea. The experimental and LSA world have done more to innovate than everyone else combined. I get what you’re saying @Blue on Top about build time vs a factory-built airplane. I don’t have data but I would guess the majority of current experimental category owners did NOT build their airplane. I personally was between the Mooney and an RV-9 (or an RV-12) for my first airplane purchase. And I wasn’t going to build anything myself. Nostalgia for the Mooney won me over. (a little hypocritical considering my rant against quaint “hobbyism”!)

I think this is the bigger problem and why Mooney is probably unlikely to dig their way out of their current hole. If I’m going to spend $700k to $1million on an airplane, why would I buy a “new” 1968 design when I could buy a new 2000 design made of plastic with a parachute and sexy girls hanging off the wings in big tents at glamorous parties? What is missing from the market is an attainable aircraft. If a new Mooney in 1965 cost $20k, a new Mooney in 2020 should cost about $200k. The problem is it costs $800k. And there just aren’t that many people that can afford $800k airplanes. And so you get one or two players with the marketing wherewithal to draw the spend from that really shallow pool of prospects and all of the other players die away. So where are the $200k airplanes? In the Experimental and LSA category. Vans, Kitfox, Jabiru, etc....like it or not they’re the future of GA.

Hey all you cool cats that have upgraded to a JPI 8xx or 9xx....do you still have that weird serial cable that you had to use to download engine data from your EDM-700 laying around? I'd be happy to take it off your hands for less than the cost of a new one (but more than $0 if you insist....) Would also be interested in the little USB download box if you have one of those too.

Well, it's official. I am now a Mooney owner! Picked up last Friday and flew to its new home at KFFZ. As advertised, we were getting consistently 149ktas and occasionally 155ktas+ with it leaned out to about 9gph. Thanks everyone for all of the help and insights. I love the airplane so far. I really could not have confidently jumped into this plane without the help of people in this community. Biggest surprise is 1) the Brittain autopilot works and 2) it works really quite well for an archaic pneumatic system that nobody I talk to has ever heard of. It holds heading off of my GPS like it's on rails, and the altitude hold...holds altitude at least as well as a student pilot on a long XC (...I have to jump in for a correction on occasion...) I think my wife was under the impression that buying an airplane would end my obsessive consumption of Mooney information....but now she's seeing that I'm just falling deeper into the abyss of airplane projects! Last night I made a fuel dipstick and cut reflective insulation to go in the windows while it's parked. It kills me, but the old girl is just baking outside on the ramp right now. I'm on a relatively short waitlist for covered tie-downs, and I'm on a hangar waitlist as well, but don't have much hope of moving up on that list for at least the next decade or so. Bruce's cover has been ordered, but it's likely a month out...at least the windows are covered, so the interior/electronics has some protection. I have to get the cover on before monsoon season starts up, and hopefylly my number will be up for covered parking. Now, it's just a matter of coming up with places/excuses to go flying! See you guys in the air!

Scariest thing coming away from the inspection yesterday is this: Thats the LH wing tank with the tell-tale blue weepy thing going on, but it's not dripping. That said, it's not going to get any better. I've read all of the recent-ish posts on wing leaks. I think I will watch this one until it's bad enough to be patched, until it's bad enough to be resealed entirely. Interestingly, the RH wing has been resealed (twice) per the logs. There are currently no leak indications on the RH side. All of the baggage door excitement had me paying particular attention to the baggage door. It has not been upgraded with the internal release. It has one single little ring of the piano hinge broken, and the "up arm" has seen better days. I'm assuming that should be a pretty easily replaced part. This is the fairing at the vertical stabilizer. Does that crack need to be drilled? I forgot to ask the mechanic and he didn't mention it. And i just thought this was odd. Little to no corrosion or rust anywhere on the airplane. This was the most noticeable and it was on the upper side of that control arm on the horizontal stab. It's only surface rust, but it seems like a weird place for oxidation.

Went and saw the airplane today in person and it didn't disappoint. Two questions: What is the little silver knob? It turns like a rheostat but tightens in towards the panel as you turn it. What does this "Pull PITCH On" knob do? Is it part of the PC system, or is it to do with the Brittain (Has the B-6 w/ALT)

TSOH at the last annual I have in the books is 1461 SMOH. I am going to get the latest Tach and annual info tomorrow. That said, it's been flown an average of 50-100 hours per year for the last 10 years. (On the high end of that in the last 3 years....100+) That said, the listing said 1315 SMOH, but as I dug into the books there's at least 1461 (2019 annual) and likely closer to 1600hrs if the same pace was kept this year. That's definitely going in the wrong direction... It has about 1000 hours since a Top Overhaul completed in March 2000. Prop was overhauled in 2004 and 800 hours ago. What is the TBO on a McCauley C214? It's a IO-360 driving a McCauley B2D34C214...does that configuration have a restricted range? From what I've read, this is the same configuration as on 78+ J models.

Where would one find this “boots” video? I’ve checked amazon and YouTube to no avail. There is apparently one Blockbuster left on earth, but I’m not too optimistic they will have it.

How about an even trade—I’ll give you my Britain AP in exchange for a fully STCd TruTrak system for my C!

Broker listed it wrong. It has the standard 52 gal. tanks. Also from the logs, the RH tank has been resealed twice but the LH hasn’t.

Not a prop strike (as far as I can tell)...just part of the IO-360 upgrade? And I was mistaken in my earlier question...they converted it a week after the initial install. And if I'm understanding this correctly...the original engine went out as an O-360 and the same engine came back from overhaul as an IO-360.

Engine question. When they installed the IO-360 the entry says “Installed IO-360-A1B6D converted from IO-360-A3B6D” And then one year later (at annual) they “converted it back to the IO-360-A3B6D”.... The only thing I can find is that the “prop locator bushings” are 120’ off between the two models. What’s the significance of this?

Gross - 2575 Empty - 1715 Useful - 860 Useful w/ Full Fuel - 548 ⬆️ Is that bad, good or typical? I did confirm that the max fuel is 52 gallons. Thanks everyone! Keep tearing this one apart for me (virtually)!

Lol! Maybe I’ll christen her the “Solo Jazz”

I wish the N number slanted forward instead of backwards. Anybody else? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Definitely the short list of upgrades once there is a reasonable AP for the C available.