ValkyrieRider

Thanks for the well thought out response. You bring up some very valid points in your response, specifically, would I be able to look at the partnership as an equal partnership, and not solely my plane. Prior to moving to Arizona, I was part of a larger flying club in Minnesota, and it worked perfectly for me. One of the reasons I am considering the partnership is to offset the fixed costs, to ensure the plane is flying enough to keep things running smoothly, and to potentially start a small flying club. After bringing a partner or two on, I would like to add a 6/7 seater, and maybe a 152 or something similar and bring additional partners for those planes. I do probably have to do a little thinking to ensure a partnership would be the right fit for my situation.

I am looking for some general thoughts and/or guidance from this group on aircraft partnerships. I am currently the sole owner of my M20C but my schedule is making it more difficult to fly as much as I have in the past. Previously I would fly about 120 hours a year and would use it more to fly for work a couple times a month. Now if I get 60 - 80 plus hours a year, I am flying a lot. With the fixed costs, maintenance, and of course fuel going up, I am thinking it would make sense to share these costs with someone that would be in the same situation as far as the number of hours they fly. Obviously not having the sole use of my plane would take a little to get used to, especially trusting that someone else would take care of it they way I do. What are your thoughts and guidance, or concerns that I should consider? Also, how would you recommend I value the plane and would you consider a down payment and monthly payments?

I will definitely second for IcyBreeze. I fly out of Phoenix, AZ and I can tell you, taking off at 2:00 in the afternoon when it is 107 outside, having the IcyBreeze on extreme cold makes the world of difference. I did not originally purchase the remote extension but after a recent trip to Tucson, I realized when I was up at altitude, the air outside was cooler than what the IcyBreeze was producing. But since it was in the baggage compartment, I had no way of turning it off and saving the battery and the ice. I added Ice when I left Tucson back to Phoenix and the battery died as I was in the pattern at Deer Valley. I just ordered the remote and an additional battery ... bring on the heat.

Looks like a great flight. Flying over the southern portion of Lake Michigan is always beautiful.

Wise counsel as always ... you sure you are just a PP? Again, thank you for your help.

So I went back to the airport today and the plane started easily the first time. I flew it from KDVT (Deer Valley) to KIWA (Mesa-Gateway), and then returned and the plane started quickly both times. I agree with @Ragsf15e that I should be aware of a possible Solenoid issue, and will most likely get it checked sooner rather than later, but as for now, seems like the battery was the problem and it is holding a charge, so far.

Wanted to give a little update: I didn't get back to the airport until today. I put the battery on a charger and ensured it was fully charged. I reinstalled it into the plane and attempted to start it and after turning the ignition all the way and pushing in I only got a click. Tried it about four times with just a click and decided to stop. Had Cutter come out and try to jump it so I can determine if it is a battery issue or beyond the batter. After two attempts the propeller turned and everything started up normally. I taxied around the airport and did a complete run-up and then shut down. I decided to try to restart it after the shutdown and it started first time. I am going to go to the airport tomorrow and hopefully it will start normally so I can take it up and run it through some paces. But it seems maybe the battery was just drained down beyond the ability to start. THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!!!

Thanks @M20Doc this will be very helpful.

@PT20J @M20Doc @GeeBee Thank you for the information. I will use this to troubleshoot today and hopefully be able to narrow it down to the culprit. It sounds like it would make sense to charge the battery to 100% before putting it back in the plane. Again, VALUABLE information, and I appreciate your time and help.

I assumed the pre-buy in Chandler was done by Frank at Chandler Aviation. He is very thorough and knows Mooneys very well. I totally trust to identify all potential issues during a pre-buy.

Great advice, thank you. I will start with this list and what @Ragsf15e has recommended. I obviously am willing to learn and want to learn to do some more troubleshooting myself, but I know my limitations mechanically. Appreciate your help gentleman, I will report back what I find ... thanks.

Thanks for the description between the different types. Mine would be the the common Mooney one, turn all the way to the right then push in for the start. It is still early (8ish) out here, so I really should run out there but supposed to be doing a honey-do right now, but want to pick Mooney expert brains first. Sounds like the Solenoid that was mentioned and possibly now the Bendix ignition switch.

Actually I just flew it three weeks ago from Phoenix, AZ to Michigan and Ohio and returned - the plane performed tremendously. I try not to let it go more than two weeks flying, so rarely does it go three weeks just sitting. My wife and I were traveling in big sky country, at Glacier National Park for a couple weeks to celebrate 30 years of marriage. So it normally flies regularly.

It sounds like the starter solenoid would make sense - but as I said, I am definitely not a mechanic and do very little wrenching myself because of this lack of knowledge. How would I check to see if the solenoid is the issue?

@orionflt and @carusoam Thanks a million, so far. I will go to the airport tomorrow and double check all of the circuit breakers to verify none has tripped. I didn't "notice" any when I tried to start the other day, but honestly, I could have missed this. Yes, the battery worked to power up the JPI900 and the pre-oiler. The pre-oiler is separate but can be operated with just the battery power when the master switch is on. The pre-oiler pulls a little voltage so do have a tendency to do this prior to pulling the tender, that way it can add a little charge back to the battery while I am finishing the preflight. The pre-oiler definitely worked both times, just like normal. The next steps unfortunately were silent. I didn't hear any vibrator or tuning - completely quiet.

Ordinary, turn to both magnetos and the prop starts to turn.

As much as I wish it weren't so, I suspect you might be right. Any ideas as to what a non mechanic could do to test or check?

Brian, wouldn't the battery tester have identified that? I know he has the negative on the negative terminal, etc. and it ready strong?

@carusoam Thanks for asking the clarification ... - I am not sure about whether the battery drained or not - will a battery tender, with the very low charging cause it to drain? When I put the plane away three weeks ago the battery was strong, I just have a practice of putting the tender on it because of the heat inside my hangar in Phoenix, I want to ensure the battery stays strong. I also forgot to mention, this battery is fairly new as I installed just this last April. So I am not sure if it ever drained at all, or if the tender has a built in security system that prevents dummies like me doing what I did? - I never charged the battery after I realized it wouldn't start the plane. I took it out of the plane, as is, and the charge seems to be good. - I never had a full battery charger on the battery only the little tender trickle charger. I did turn on the master when I first arrived at the airport and checked my lights and ran the pre-oiler, all seemed normal. After the preflight I went through my normal procedures with I used the pre-oiler a second time, it put 41 pounds pressure on the oil system, like normal, but when I turned the magnetos, nada, zippo ... - The Auto parts store seemed to think the battery was strong and something down stream must be causing it to not start. Thoughts? (from a non-A&P/IA, but awesome pilot)??

Ok, I am embarrassed to admit this - but the first step is to fix my issue is to admit my mistake. So, after my last flight, almost three weeks ago, I put up the battery tender on the battery but I inadvertently reversed the terminals. Yes, I put the negative clamp on the positive terminal and opposite for the negative terminal. The battery tender was on in for about three weeks until I went to fly it yesterday and realized what I had done. I went through my regular preflight checks and everything else seemed correct. I have a pre-oiler so I usually check the lights and run the pre-oiler and putting pressure not he oil system before I do my external checks. Turning on the Master switch, checking the lights and running the pre-oiler all seemed normal with no indication of a problem with the battery. After completing the rest of the preflight I attempted to start the plane ('65 M20C) like normal, all electronics lit up normally, but turning the key on the magnetos and nothing happened. No attempt to turn the prop, nothing at all. I attempted it a couple times but nothing each time. I put the plane away and decided to pull the battery assuming the battery would be bad, even thought the JPI900 showed that I still have 12.1 volts. I took the battery to O'Reilly Auto Parts and asked them to check the battery volts, which showed about 12.6 and put the battery under a load and their tester showed that it was a good battery. They said that maybe a breaker tripped or a relay tripped. I assumed it wasn't a breaker as all the electronics seemed normal with the master switch on. Relay? I don't know. What would you recommend? What can I check, or what else could be wrong? Could the magnetos been messed up because of it? Is there a relay that would have tripped to save the magnetos? Help...

I was thinking the same exact thing. IF the PPI (or annual) come out clean, $65 - $70K, in my opinion, is a tremendous deal. I would also be a little cautious of the time since overhaul, specifically the last few years, but hopefully the PPI and log books will alleviate any concerns.

Definitely a better plane for the value. Not saying the other one isn't a good value, just this seems to be a better value. The Stec50 is worth the difference in price, but I do like that the first plane as the JPI830. To install a new JPI830 would be cheaper than installing a new autopilot (although the engine monitor, in my opinion, is important, and nice to have).

When you are ready for your trip from CA to Phoenix, hit me up, I may fly over to pick you up - as long as you are comfortable riding in my 'C' I would enjoy the flight time.

Based on what I read from my Mooney brothers, I think I will pass on this "opportunity" at this time. Blackbird may be a good startup and turn into something beneficial to all, but I don't think I want to be part of the testing and trial process.