MikeOH

This sounds waaay too hinky for me; I'd pass on trying it. You don't even know what's really the problem so how do you even asses the risk?

Another insurance data point: I had around 70ish hours in a rental B model when I bought my F. Insurance didn't bat an eye, no dual, no mins before passengers; I even double checked that they considered an F the same 'model' as the B. They did. Granted, I had recency of experience in the B as I was renting it up until I got my F.

Sent you a PM

Thanks for checking!

Do you have the Terrain/Obstacle card, or just Nav card shown in the picture?

After trashing my Nav and Terrain/Obstacle data cards by exposing them to the airport gate card scanner, I find myself in need of a new Terrain/Obstacle data card (I was fortunate to be given a Nav data card). Any one have one they'd part with/sell? eBay doesn't seem to show any at the moment. Thanks! Mike

Today's update.... I MAY finally be through this nightmare! I have successfully programmed both Nav Data, and Obstacle/Terrain Data cards! These are NOT my cards, but loaners from Mark at Advantage Aviation at Chino Airport. I show up this morning on his doorstep with my tale of woe (he's NEVER met me)...and he spends a good 30 minutes, or more, to start his day by helping me! My cards bricked his G530W! Both the Nav and Terrain, even though I had previously programmed my Nav card successfully! He sent me on my way with HIS cards so I could make my vacation trip this Saturday. I just finished programming his cards in MY programmer. So, my fear that the programmer was destroying the cards is alleviated. (The programmer will not longer even recognize my cards; at one time, it recognized both). So, what happened you may ask?? Well, here is my theory (and I am NOT, repeat NOT going to test this theory with Mark's loaner cards): I have been carrying the data cards in my wallet. My wallet also contains the gate card to get onto the airport (KPOC). I am in the habit of NOT taking the gate card out of my wallet but just waving my wallet in front of the electronic reader. My theory is that the field from that reader is corrupting the cards (destroying their formatting, not just the data), hence they 'brick' the G430W when installed. The final step is to install in the G430W tomorrow...finger's crossed!

Thanks for the suggestions! I went to the plane and turned on the 430W without any cards...worked fine, thankfully! The problem is actually with the Terrain/Obstacle card; with ONLY the Nav Data card installed the 430W comes up fine, shows current Nav data cycle, and warns there is no Terrain/Obstacle data; reverting to basemap. Spent the last hour on the phone with Garmin (really patient, I will say!) and my reader won't even recognize the card anymore. They also had me try the Nav card, which now isn't recognized, either!! Wish I hadn't done that as I may have just corrupted the Nav card with a broken reader. I won't know for sure until I go back to the plane tomorrow. Local avionics shop MAY have a used card...I started this 'project' last Friday in anticipation of our vacation trip this coming Saturday.... I'm thinking I may be back to L-charts and sectionals!

A little feedback: I called Garmin and they walked me through the download...something had hung the first time and caused their site to think I'd already updated. Anyway, no problem programming the Nav Data card from Jep with the Garmin programmer (in fact, Garmin told me if I wanted a second card I would need to buy it from Jep!) Unfortunately, when I put the cards back in the 430W, it won't even boot! I get some kind of yellow text error saying, among other info, that there is a "system integrity error".... arrggh! This plane ownership thing is frustrating! Garmin is saying it doesn't have anything to do with the Data Cards, but seems pretty coincidental to me. They're saying I need to take it to a Garmin dealer; that possibly reloading the software will fix it. Anyone had something like this happen?

Thanks! Just emailed him.

Thanks! I appreciate the clarification; I wish I'd thought this through BEFORE I bought the Garmin bundle! I'd read a few posts about people switching to Garmin for data vs. Jep, and naively thought there wasn't much more to it than buying from the 'other guy.' I'm calling Garmin on Monday (looks like they are closed weekends) and crossing my fingers that you are right about them refunding me! Then, back to Aircraft Spruce to return the card programmer. Man, owning is so much fun!

I have the 430W (WASS). Garmin site is pretty clear you are buying Nav data for their 430W. But, I am beginning to think you are right that the Jep card is different and can't be programmed by the Garmin programmer. I'm trying to confirm that I'm now faced with buying a Garmin Nav data card, on top of all the money I've already spent!! I should have just updated the nav data with Jep, and left it at that.

I sure would appreciate help in understanding if I'm totally hosed... First time trying to update the data cards in my 430W. Previous owner used Jeppesen. I, perhaps stupidly, decided to buy the Garmin bundle with Terrain, Obstacles, and Nav. Bought the $70 Garmin Data Card programmer. Stumbled through all the software hurdles (I have an old Windows XP machine). Managed to get the Terrain Data card programmed with terrain and obstacles, but no joy with the Nav Data! While the Nav Data card has GARMIN molded into the plastic case, the SILVER label says Jeppesen at the very bottom (also has Garmin Corporation printed on it). Is that why I can't program it? If so, can I use the Jeppesen adaptor, or will that only work if I buy the data from Jep??? HELP!! Please!!

I believe the problem is solved. Pin U on the control box connector had low resistance to the chassis. Per the control box schemati that Marauder kindly supplied (Thank you!!) that should NOT be the case. In fact, if I made sure the control box did NOT touch the aircraft frame the CB no longer tripped. While coincidental to the shop working on the plane, the proble was unrelated to anything they did. It was a manufacturing defect that took nearly 50 years to manifest itself! As you can see (somewhat) in the attached photos, there is a rubber insulated Adel clamp holding a bundle of wires. Careful examination revelealed that a single wire, the one going to pin U, had been clamped between the metal portion of the Adel clamp and the control box' metal chassis rather than having been properly routed inside the insulated portion of the clamp. Vibration eventually wore through the insulation and caused pin U to be shorted to ground.... on the second flight after the shop worked on the plane! Thanks for everyone's input!

Looks like all the pins that are 'grounded' are connections to bulbs; so, the low resistance is expected. Tracing the gear warning circuit from the circuit breaker (20PB03E) on schematic WE-3 (page 9-102) ends up going to pin U on the control box. Next step is to see if that pin has a low resistance to ground. If so, that's likely the issue.

Today's progress: I removed the control box from the panel; not without some minor issues...the overlay has to be removed to access the mounting screws and the knob comes off with two set screws, and the push to test button unscrews. That still wasn't enough! The 1/4 turn panel fasteners had to be released and then the panel tipped finally provided clearance to remove the box. I also ohmed every pin of the mating connector (plane side, NOT the box side) to ground and wrote down the pins that showed close to zero ohms. Now, to the plane schematic to see if all of those pins should have a path to ground.

Thanks! But, to be accurate the Gear Warning CB trips when the gear is UP or DOWN; doesn't matter.

Thanks, Marauder, but that's somewhat different than my '70. Most significantly, your gear warning lights (gear up, gear down) are directly driven. In my '70 the lights are driven by the 'control box' whose schematic I seek.

I spent some time this afternoon troubleshooting. The breaker tripping goes away when I disconnect the connectors (20LP04A) to the "control box" (20LP05A). So, I'm pretty sure the issue is within the 'control box.' Further, when I took off and brought the gear up, I remember hearing a weird buzzing sound for a few seconds. Examination of the top of the 'control module' finds two 2N3055 transistors (TO-3 case) mounted. The collector (case) wires are loose! And, one has evidence of arcing! I'm thinking that was the buzzing I heard and, if so, it is likely that the associated 2N3055 is now shorted (collector to emitter) as the case is isolated from ground by a mica insulating washer. Does anyone have the schematic for the 20LP05A 'control box?' This is the item that has the panel light dimmer and light sensor right under the glare shield above the pilot's instruments.

HAH! It's getting to be my bedtime even here on the west coast. Thanks, again!

No. Unfortunately, the F's electrical gear has these kind of odd rectangular indicator lights arranged in a vertical stack. The light above the gear selector switch is amber illuminated when the gear is up, and the light just below the gear selector switch is the green gear down light. They are not at all like the twistable 'iris' type in the earlier planes. Yeah, time to start tracing wires....

Thanks! I suspect a bare wire somewhere; it's a pretty solid short given the breaker trips as fast as I take my finger off of it. I was thinking it was something behind the panel since the shop had just had the panel apart...but, that may well be an unwarranted assumption. I just don't believe in coincidences, I guess!

I'm probably not understanding, but it is NOT the landing gear actuator breaker tripping, it is the gear warning system breaker.

1970 M20F Just had the static system/transponder/encoder check done. Panel was pulled apart looking for static system leak (found & fixed). Short flight home, gear and gear down light worked fine. Next flight when I put the gear down the green gear down did NOT illuminate. I checked the CB and found it tripped; I reset and it immediately tripped again. (NOTE: I checked it at pre-flight and it was NOT tripped; when the master was turned on the green gear down light was illuminated). Tower said gear appeared down, floor indicator showed down, and I landed without problem. After landing I tried resetting the CB and again it tripped immediately. While I'm an electrical engineer, the Mooney schematic (page 9-102) is less than user friendly. Anyone had this happen, any ideas where the short could be? I'm afraid this could get time consuming.... Thanks! Mike

Sounds like you know which elves to hire