cctsurf

The Green circle is a mag check on the magneto, the blue circle is a mag check on the SIM. All over the place.

If you look at the blue circle, notice that the rpm dropped, I'm doing a mag check at that point, and that is what happens when I do. This one fell on egt1. Notice that most of the egts rose. The green circled region is very low rpm, I'm not absolutely sure what's going on in the egts. All of the times you look at my logs right now, I'm doing lots of mag checks, they look very similar to the blue circled area. Some have egt rises and are very consistent, those are on the magneto, when I go to the sim, I get roughness and that's what this thread is all about. That makes me concerned, the technical support said that inconsistent power can also make engines run rough. I hope he's right. That's the assumption I'm working under right now. My IA was fairly sure it wouldn't be problems with the new ignition harness, but it definitely bears testing as I move forward. Mike Busch likes to talk about infant mortality. Despite what I said earlier, the problem moves around, though, so I'm not certain it is one particular ignition lead. That's how many of the early c's, d's, and even e's were routed, over the cylinders, through the doghouse. I have the original holes patched in my '62. It baked oil hoses and in Mooney sbm20-110, they called for a reroute. Seeing as that was not an AD, it has not been done on all early mooneys. I have a pretty good braid, however, I tend to be fairly over-concerned about grounds. I will probably run a new wire to one of those bolt holes. I recently used one to ground my engine monitor.

I like that idea better than what I just posted. Here are some other pictures that I found on MS: Similar to the one above: Not sure where this one goes:

Found one picture of the ground... Can that REALLY be? Still looking for other pictures.

If anyone wants to look at my Savvy graphs, here's the link: https://apps.savvyaviation.com/my-flights/4727/3b752d02-75cc-4be3-92da-36282c7276ce THANKS!

I think my IA would prefer I be able to sign off my own work, anyway... Fewer Hangar Elves... This has been an immense project that started with a non-working magneto and has logged approximately 300 hours toward my A&P (I'd have to calculate it out)... I've written a parallel to "If you give a mouse a cookie" about it. "If you give a Mooney a p-lead" I'm at ~600 hours toward the 4700 I have to log. It seemed insurmountable 'till I started working on projects. I've got a Cherokee 140 that needs an engine overhaul, I really hope I can do a field overhaul under supervision, I think that would be great toward the P part of the A&P.

There is a ground braid on the other side of the engine. Agreed. I'm a big believer in good grounds. (= I just did engine mounts not that long ago, I can't say whether there was paint behind the nut and washer, but I'm pretty sure there isn't on the inside of the hole... It should be tight enough on that engine mount not to move around, but I would prefer to have it connected where it is supposed to be connected... I haven't figured that out.

I don't have a picture, it was obviously an attempt at getting a better ground... Thinking about it, the bolt does go straight through the engine at the top back, so it should be fairly good connection to the engine. I was initially thinking about the isolation that occurs in the engine mount itself, but that's not where the connection would be. I have never had any charging problems or noises in headsets...

Dumb question: I don't think the battery ground wire is connected to the correct place (it's connected to the back of one of the Lord mounts). Does anyone have a picture of the correct place for it? I've never been comfortable with the current position... but it has always worked. My IA says it might well be my problem...I agree.

I'm working under supervision toward taking the A&P tests... This experience has increased my knowledge immensely, and I've logged about 30 hours working through it. More to come, it seems.

Just got off of the phone with Surefly. They said to check all of the electrical wires and grounds from the battery to the SIM. My issue does sound like the problems people have been having with the 24v systems, so I can see power supply as being the problem. I have checked that repeatedly, it's timed to TDC. I'll check it again. I agree that the drawings are a bit confusing. In fact I began to redirect the spark plug wires when I was rechecking all of my work before testing because I read them wrong. I looked at the diagrams a second time and realized that I had them right the first time. New plugs gapped to .022. Original plugs were .018. Surefly said that was fine, the larger the better. So, it looks like I need to check some power wires... I'm guessing the battery to ground, I never did like it...

Looking back to the first tests, I note that the trouble was not only on cyl 4, but also on cyl 1 or 3, but most recently, mainly on 4. I initially had newish (50 hrs) Tempest plugs on 1&3 and run out champion ones on 2&4. I replaced all of those with new Tempests before the 4th data set. The engine sounded the same bucking and even a backfire with the new tempests, same as with the old plugs. First test with new ignition system, notice the spike in egt3. Now it's on cyl #1... I was messing around with the mixture here because it ran better with the mixture leaned, but not good. Still old plugs. At ~2:45, I'm doing a mag check on the traditional magneto, at ~3-3:45, I'm doing a mag check on the Surefly. New plugs, doing a "magneto" test on the Surefly. Notice the drops on Cyl #4. same test as the above...except zoomed to the surefly "mag" test time.

Definitely worth a check. It would seem odd that it would repeatedly occur on the 4th cylinder, though.

Nope, Left one (that's one of the reasons I jumped on the Surefly)... no more shower of sparks. =/

Yes, I checked that. Long, short, long, long... BEAUTIFULLY. I'm beginning to wish I had just purchased a replacement magneto...

Just installed a surefly due to a magneto failure and the engine runs rough. Especially when I switch to it alone, it is very rough. Has anyone else experienced this? I have even heard a backfire (not on switching to the surefly, but in the middle of a run-up)! We replaced the wires (had to), and after the first test, replaced the spark plugs (a number tested high resistance). The roughness still is there. I followed Surefly's troubleshooting, the plug wires are correct, the timing is correct, the sim blinks the correct code. I have a number of jpi traces (not sure how to post that here) of run ups and a couple of flights around the patch, but I'm not good enough at reading them to tell what's going on. It really looks to me like cylinder 4 is the one having problems, and that it persisted through a plug change. Could be a bad plug wire? Do I contact surefly? Any other ideas? I should note that my IA doesn't have a lot of experience with the surefly, so I thought I would ask here. Thanks in advance!

I somewhat agree, however I just know that they are out there in the weather and I don't think I want to replace them again anytime soon... I wouldn't be surprised if mine are original. If the plane is still flying in another 60 years, It'll be approximately $5.00 a year... Scarily enough, hoses...even teflon ones...are cheap when it comes to airplane maintenance.

While people are talking about hose lengths, I'd love to know the hose dimensions to replace my brake hoses down the wings. I'd think about getting some teflon ones out there, maybe rotating my calipers at the same time...

We redid the hoses on my '62 c and followed Mooney's SB M20-110 (they were a mess), but I believe it is how the hoses continued to be for the 65E's...different from what yours appear to be. It might help you see how Mooney expected the hoses to be routed. https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/service_bulletins/sbm20-110.pdf My knowledge of silicon firesleeved hoses is Aeroquip AE466. As to length, I can't help you.

Get teflon firesleeved (brown) ones and essentially never have to worry about replacing them again (replace on condition--when they are actually failing)... The cost a pretty penny, but it cuts one major hurdle out of annuals.

REM37BY REM38E UREM38E

placing the old Champions level next to the new Tempest plugs they are the same length. My problem would be just as true of champion plugs in the #1, top hole... The more I think about it, I should have gone with the UREM37BY plugs instead of the UREM38E's... Too bad that's another week wait for shipping. I either have to make a dome like mike20papa showed above or get a REM37BY for that position...I'd really like to have the same plugs all around... Honestly, I like the REM37BY design better... Anybody want a set of UREM38Es with a couple hours on them?

Finally got out to the airport to take some pictures... No, the rem38e plugs will not fit under the doghouse there. I wish I had ordered the -BY version.. Hmm. Thankfully, that old plug (a -BY one...I was wondering what was going on there), was the only one that tested good... And that plug is still fired by the magneto...so back it goes until I can get a replacement.

That picture helps a lot. I kept reading about the need for a deeper deep socket and began to wonder if the tempest plugs were longer than their champion counterparts. I see that the hex for the wrench to address is lower on the plug and that makes the difference for the socket. I picked up a special socket, so I should be OK on that. I just dislike how tight the plug wires must turn to miss the doghouse and I was concerned that the tempests might be a bit longer and make that corner even tighter. The early Mooneys had an interior pressure cowl inside of their exterior cowl. It goes all of the way around the top of the engine. This is what makes me concerned especially about the length of the top plugs. If you notice the front right corner of the doghouse in this is angled down and it gets quite near the spark plugs (notice the bump here, mine doesn't have that).

I'll have to get out to the airport to take some pictures...probably tomorrow.