Bravoman

I did not look at that as an option. Tony Armour on this forum is based at Dalton and can attest to the size of the metal that was in the screen and filter. It was so big you could almost see part numbers. Even Herman at Zephyr Engines discouraged me from an overhaul and felt that based on what he saw there was a significant probability that a lifter came loose and sent stuff ricocheting around the internals, kind of like what some bullets are known to do once entering the body. He even felt the crank could be damaged. Even damage to things like the turbo was possible. Also in speaking with the lycoming rep it confirmed to me that with this engine in particular you are typically getting what amounts to a new engine anyway with a reman since they don't have lots of Bravo cores sitting around. Again had this been a typical overhaul situation Zephyr would have gotten it, but that ain't the way the cookie crumbled( pun intended). regards, Frank

About 64k. Nice thing about it is since this a niche engine which Lycoming only sells for the Bravo I understand you generally get pretty much a new engine since they don't have a lot of old parted out ones sitting around. Also, unlike say the version of the 540 that goes in a Cherokee six or Saratoga these engines have not been around for a long time comparatively speaking (the Bravo engine came a few years after Mooney introduced the TLS and was in response to problems with cylinder wear with the original TLS engine). Thinking about it I never see Bravos with over 2000 hrs total time and most of them have considerably less so anecdotally I don't think there are a lot of second and third run cores out there. Also all new accessories, turbo, waste gate , exhaust( which has a tendency to crack at joints with age on this set up), zero time log book, Herman of Zephyr engines kind input all adds up to my best option being a factory reman. Had this not have happened Zephyr would have been getting my engine for sure when it needed an overhaul. BTW Zephyrs price not including case and unforeseen repairs/replacements is 54k, but did not include new exhaust etc. Regards, Frank

I have confirmed with the rep at Air Power that roller tappets are not included with this particular engine. I inquired why, and he indicated that it was not part of the engineering design for the TIO 540 for the bravo. He began to explain the reasons to me, but it is way above my pay grade. From What I am seeing thus far, Air Power is a very good company from a customer service perspective. Regards, Frank

It is my understanding that the factory remans come with the roller tappets. I will get clarification on that. I am awaiting the paperwork from airpower on all of the particulars.

Edit above: accepting my core( that's Siri for you!)

Just got word that Lycoming is excepting my core. The only penalty, if you will, is that I do not get the approximately $5000 discount that they offer on factory remans for a first run engine. All in all, I am pleased with that outcome. Regards, Frank

She got me back alive and in one piece. I didn't want to scratch her belly quite in that fashion!

Thanks for that, I agree as well that the internals are probably generally ok. If lycoming refuses to give me core credit it will likely be my only viable option. Thanks again, Frank

We are waiting to hear back from Airpower, the authorized distributor. My MSC sent photos and other info and Airpower is in turn talking to Lycoming. I have my fingers crossed. I'll report back when we know, hopefully this week.

I really don't see parting out my plane as a viable option. It is a low time pristine airframe and I bought it right factoring in that it was a high time engine from the standpoint of the number of years in service since new in 1998. Even if I put in a factory new engine(as opposed to a reman) I would be at about 1/3 the cost of a new Acclaim. I plan on keeping the plane till my flying days are over so even if a reman is in order I'm not viewing it as the end of the world. As to the credit for the core, still waiting to hear whether Lycoming will treat me as the loyal customer I think I've always been..... Regards, Frank

The Aztecs, particularly the later models are great planes. Built like tanks

Tony, I appreciate you going over the shop and looking at it. I guess from what you have seen it lends to the conclusion that the internals are toast ?

No, what would that reveal?

Crazy thing is the engine sounded normal and appeared to be making normal power through the time I shut it down. I am no mechanic but I would have thought I would hear or feel something abnormal given the probable failure of a lifter etc. the scariest thing about this is the complete lack of any warning of the failure. On the plus side it is way better than the mill stopping on takeoff. Tony, thanks for posting the pic!

Your point is well taken. I'll make it a point to figure out how to get a pic on here shortly.

Good to know, thanks.

Thank you all so much for the advice. At this juncture it looks like a factory reman. We are checking prices and applicable discounts now. One thing I'd like to tell everybody is how helpful and honest Herman at zephyr engines was when I called him about the situation. I texted him a pic, and He advised that because the damage to the case looked most likely due to a broken tappet, there was likely other damage internally that would have to be addressed, possibly even to the crank. His advice was that a factory reman would likely be the only economically viable option when you factor in the cost of a new case. My my concern is how the core credit will be handled by Lycoming in light of the cracked case and possible internal damage. Hopefully they will try to keep me a happy customer, but perhaps I am being naive! i was proud of my performance when the case blew and so were the guys at Cole aviation who came out to watch my return to the field when they were alerted by the FBO. It is good to be a pilot. It was definitely good to be on the ground. regards, Frank

Today I stopped by to say hello Joey Cole and his guys at Cole aviation in Dalton, Ga, the MSC which maintains my plane. On departure, after a normal run up I started getting oil on the wind screen and soon it was covered. I had no forward visibility but had an uneventful landing back at the field. The engine continued to make normal power and I blew out all but about 3 quarts of oil. When the plane was pulled in to the shop it was de cowled and the cause was readily apparent. There was a four inch mostly horizontal crack along the top front of the left side of the case. I'll try to post a pic later if I can figure out how to do it. Joey cole and his men said they never saw anything quite like it. After seeing what the case looked like I knew I was lucky that this happened in VMC and close to an airport, especially the one where my mechanic is located. My question is what to do about the engine. The engine (and airframe, which is a 98 model) has 1155 hrs and has never been overhauled. For whatever its worth in terms of relevance, the crank shaft AD did not apply to my engine. Should I try to get core credit for a new engine, or just buy a new case and have the engine overhauled by Zephyr or Penn Yan? ( haven't decided which shop I'd go with yet; I know both are excellent). I don't like the idea of welding the case half, as I don't think I would have confidence in its integrity, especially given the size of this crack. I'm trying to get a sense of which direction makes the most sense economically and what will give me the best, safest engine under the circumstances. Thanks for your collective input and wisdom! Regards, Frank

As I have said before, I am amazed at how good the Bravo makes me look with landing. Never flew any other Mooney so no basis for comparison there. perhaps flying a Saratoga for about 1000 hrs prepared me well with its long heavy nose. Have never been as good in the Toga though. Go figure!

Glad you are enjoying your new plane! The O I was referring to was owned by a fellow here in Atlanta for a brief time and he listed it with Airmart. The timing of the sale was close so that's why I asked. regards, Frank

Did you by chance buy the O that was listed by Airmart?

Still have the hangar at RYY and that is where I keep the piper. Was on the wait list at PDK for 5 years and got one of the new west ramp hangars they built on what used to be Rwy 9/27, so that is where the mooney lives. The house is in east Cobb pretty much between both dromes so it works out, especially since I love all the great ethnic food up and down Buford hwy next to PDK! Your daughter still at Kennesaw or she graduate? regards, Frank

Like my old man used to say, ill eagle is just a sick bird!

For whatever crazy reason I consistently grease the mooney on. For me much easier to grease on than our fixed gear Saratoga. The mooney feels like it's on rails on the approach and into the flair.

Anthony, you raise interesting points. I was an economics major in college and still find this kind of stuff fascinating. The more widgets you have of like kind the easier it is to determine a market price. With these planes, as you point out, the number of units is small, especially when you factor in the differences between the same model and year aircraft, i.e. hours, avionics and other pedigree. On the demand side, I hate to say it but I think the market continues to narrow and our planes appeal to us old farts more than the younger aviators who seem to like the cirrus type aircraft with joysticks and cockpits that look more like a BMW than what we came up with. Regards, Frank